To DSG or not to DSG

[exactlyazza]

Hello all,

Been on the look out for a new car for quite some time and finally being pushed into making a decision now after my Astra collapsed at it's MOT.  Anyway I've been fancying something a little bigger than a hatchback and after some searching around PH and AutoTrader etc I've come across the Elegance trim of the Superb... which has really caught my eye.  

Now I don't do massive miles so I'm looking at petrol rather than diseal, and I've started cycling to work, but when I do have to drive back home from work in rush hour it's just a killer not being in anything comfy trying to keep calm.  This trim seems rather outstanding, a lot of car for the money as they say.  Unfortunately few seem to be available, I can see why given the equipment and comfort you probably get.

 

Main questions are,

Llooking for autos with full service history most seem relatively low mileage, 32k, 24k, 47k a mix of 1.8 and 2.0.  2011 & 2012 reg.  But at a cost ~£9,000 - £10,000

 

Despite a low mileage and a full service history should I be wary of the 1.8 7 speed?  I've read bad things about them.  Is the 2.0 6 speed really a lot more reliable?

 

If there is concern around a DSG on the cars at this age, should I just focus on finding a manual with full history and lowest mileage possible?  


I know there's always a possibility of being blown away in 12 months with a massive bill on most cars but if there's anything in particular to look out for that would be appreciated. 



tldr:

FSH Elegance
DSG 1.8 or 2.0 - which has the probability of causing the most pain
Manual higher mileage or DSG lower mileage

 

[silver1011]

Manual vs. DSG is a topic that divides opinion.

 

There is no doubt that a properly functioning DSG box is a wonderful thing.

 

One that isn't however can be a nightmare.

 

I'd have a DSG equipped car still under warranty any day of the week.

 

Running one out of warranty, no thanks, I'll take the manual. 

[jafo]

If serviced properly and on time - DSG is a dream I'll never ever go for anything without DSG and 4x4  

[Superb170]

Remember the vast majority of DSG boxes never give trouble and you're always going to hear about the small minority that do on a forum like this.  As mentioned above, a well serviced box should be absolutely fine.  There is no doubt though that the 7 speed dry clutch box did give some trouble a few years back (2012 ish) so just be wary of that.

[Wile7]

As above - the vast majority of DSG units are fine and fitted across the whole VAG range (SEAT, Skoda, Audi, VW) so are well proven.

 

On the rare occasions that there are issues, its the 'wet' clutch 6sp DSG that seems to give fewer problems than the later 7sp 'dry' clutch DSG (as Superb170 has highlighted above).

 

Oil and filter service on the 6sp every 40k miles (70k kms) and all should be fine - good for 100's of 000's of miles - its a great gearbox and with paddles its a delight to use too 

 

Dave 

[chimaera]

There are two different DSG 'boxes in play here: the 6sp wet clutch in the 2.0, and the 7sp dry clutch in the 1.8.

 

The only 'common' fault I've come across with the 6sp unit is DMF failure, usually at interstellar mileage (the DSG is kinder to the DMF than a manual). They need a fluid change every 60000 km or 40000 miles; cost for this seems to be about the same for independent or dealer as it requires the use of special tools that can be expensive to buy.

 

The 7sp dry clutch units have had some issues as you've noted. I'm not particularly familiar with the specifics as that transmission has never been on my radar. A search around here will yield more info.

 

Another factor to consider here is that the 1.8 TSI has been known for having serious issues with the oil pump drive in some model years, with bills running to thousands to put it right. Do your homework here if you're particularly keen on the 1.8. IIRC there have been suggestions that the 2.0 TSI might be vulnerable to these issues too, but that engine is so rare it's hard to tell for sure.

 

I've had both manual and DSG versions of the CR170 in the Superb and while both have their strong points, at this point I'd take the DSG over the manual for the Superb. It suits the character of the car very well, and makes for a relaxed drive in all traffic conditions. One thing to note, in the diesel at least, the DSG has shorter gearing than the manual.

[superbdreams]

Changing the oil every 40k miles sounds no biggy until you see how much it will cost.

Wish I had known it would have been the deciding factor to go for manual, though I didn't actually ever find a manual in L&K spec 

[vborovic]

8 minutes ago, superbdreams said:

Changing the oil every 40k miles sounds no biggy until you see how much it will cost.

 

I managed to do the oil change myself for only 80 GBP (genuine DSG oil, genuine DSG filter and the seal rings)

[superbdreams]

17 minutes ago, vborovic said:

 

I managed to do the oil change myself for only 80 GBP (genuine DSG oil, genuine DSG filter and the seal rings)

It cost me 112 ukp, perhaps the oil kit is  cheaper in croatia?

But then if you dont have vcds you should factor that cost in, plus some kind of pump unless you have lots of spare time to wait for it to fill.

 

 

[vborovic]

52 minutes ago, superbdreams said:

It cost me 112 ukp, perhaps the oil kit is  cheaper in croatia?

But then if you dont have vcds you should factor that cost in, plus some kind of pump unless you have lots of spare time to wait for it to fill.

 

For the price I've specified, you can get the genuine oil on local ebay-like sources (through independent garages or individuals who have the oil for much cheaper) - or, you can buy other non-genuine, but suitable oils including the non-genuine filters for the price in shops like your Halfords ... genuine kit in the dealers would be around 150 GBP.

 

Regarding the VCDS; if you want to do any kind of maintenance or just to know what the car isn't saying to you through the instrument panel ,this is a must-have tool (and, you don't really need to use VCDS for the oil change, but it is much easier to gauge the required oil temperature).

 

Regarding the time-to-fill, the method I've used took only 10 minutes for all 5.5 liters of oil.

[Wile7]

Can't believe that our local swiss coop has a promotion on Mobil 1 going for 13.89 chf for a 5 ltr bottle....that's approx. £10.50 

 

It used to be that France was the cheapest....

 

Apologies for slight thread highjack 

[Defenderben]

VW fixed price DSG oil/filter change every 40k is £189.00.

 

Not sure if Skoda is the same.

[vborovic]

Skoda should be slightly cheaper regarding the labor cost for the service procedures in the dealer's workshops (Audi > VW > Seat/Skoda)

[superbdreams]

12 hours ago, Defenderben said:

VW fixed price DSG oil/filter change every 40k is £189.00.

 

Not sure if Skoda is the same.

Even at that price it is not exactly cheap and 40k is not that far and another day in the garage.

It is not ideal lets say.

[JamesBrown]

Not driven the 1.8.

 

The 2.0TSI is fantastic but only comes with DSG. Mine is remapped to 260bhp. However, in reality I think the 1.8 would be fine for all normal driving circumstances, as I have never yet needed all the power of the 2.0 for any good or legitimate reason (it would even match the speed I did on the Autobahn).

 

Whilst I wouldn’t swap now, I think if I was in the market, a 1.8 4x4 manual elegance would be considered, but of course it lacks the quad pipes...

 

 

[old newbie2]

19 minutes ago, JamesBrown said:

Not driven the 1.8.

 

The 2.0TSI is fantastic but only comes with DSG. Mine is remapped to 260bhp. However, in reality I think the 1.8 would be fine for all normal driving circumstances, as I have never yet needed all the power of the 2.0 for any good or legitimate reason (it would even match the speed I did on the Autobahn).

 

Whilst I wouldn’t swap now, I think if I was in the market, a 1.8 4x4 manual elegance would be considered, but of course it lacks the quad pipes...

 

 

Don't forget the very subtle tailgate spoiler, & the red S & I badge...........

 

I'm upset, mine only remapped to 249 bhp, but that was it had done about 6000 miles & the original air filter. The Pipercross replacement 

"must" be worth another 1 bhp......

 

As for the DSG fluid change, I've only just passed 28K miles, but since it's due for a service next month I'll get it done then.

[JamesBrown]

9 minutes ago, old newbie2 said:

Don't forget the very subtle tailgate spoiler, & the red S & I badge...........

 

I'm upset, mine only remapped to 249 bhp, but that was it had done about 6000 miles & the original air filter. The Pipercross replacement 

"must" be worth another 1 bhp......

 

As for the DSG fluid change, I've only just passed 28K miles, but since it's due for a service next month I'll get it done then.

To be fair, I don’t know the exact bhp, it was a bespoke map by Shark and he said somewhere between 250 and 260...based on his past efforts...I took the high number and almost forgot it could be less... call it optimism bias, so it may well be closer to yours than I said! I was told 98 RON only - if that makes any difference, anyway usually I use Costco 99, though I did use the very expensive Texaco garage the other day and it felt even better on their fuel.

 

Id never noticed the spoiler as a feature, to be honest, is that not on other Superbs?! My old MG ZS had a better spoiler to be fair.

 

Disappointed that the T isn’t red as well, to be honest.

[chimaera]

On 24/5/2018 at 19:04, Defenderben said:

VW fixed price DSG oil/filter change every 40k is £189.00.

 

Not sure if Skoda is the same.

Less than half a penny per mile - outrageous!

[Ootohere]

Mony a mickle maks a muckle.

Add the DSG servicing to the oils & filters, Air, Fuel, Pollen filters, washer fluid, brake fluid and fuel.. Cost of running a vehicles.

 

At least they give a 'Free Wash & Vacuum' while seeing you kept on the road.

 

Oddly VW, Skoda, SEAT still show 40,000 mile DSG oil changes yet call it a s-tronic and Audi say @ 38,000 miles.

[chimaera]

In metric markets the interval is 60000 km which is 37500 miles; seems Audi rounded up to the nearest 1000 rather than 10000.

[superbdreams]

20 hours ago, chimaera said:

Less than half a penny per mile - outrageous!

I am sure your post is intended to make light of the cost but I am shocked that it is nearly one half pence per mile!

 

Then again had I have known when buying it, it wouldn't be so bad.

[chimaera]

3 hours ago, superbdreams said:

I am sure your post is intended to make light of the cost but I am shocked that it is nearly one half pence per mile!

 

Then again had I have known when buying it, it wouldn't be so bad.

Not so much making light of it as showing another way of thinking about it. People complain about these things being a significant outlay when they fall due, yet if you average the cost over the period of use, it's actually a very small cost compared to the other costs of owning/running the vehicle. If you're doing the average of 12000 miles per year, the DSG service costs 1.15 gpb/week - you probably spend more than that buying coffee every day (I know I do).