On 23/06/2018 at 12:14, vRSAnt said:

 ...Stinger being unusual probably depreciate less

 

 

 

What an odd thing to say. It's certainly true when it comes to specialist / highly desirable cars, but rule of thumb amongst mass market cars is the more unusual, the MORE it depreciates.

 

@Scot5I initially disagreed with @vRSAnt too, but my fledgling research tells me that the 3.3 GT S version of the Stinger may hold its value pretty well. 

 

I was hoping to scoop a bargain in 12-18 months’ time. We’ll have to see. 

4 minutes ago, dunc69 said:

@Scot5I initially disagreed with @vRSAnt too, but my fledgling research tells me that the 3.3 GT S version of the Stinger may hold its value pretty well. 

 

I was hoping to scoop a bargain in 12-18 months’ time. We’ll have to see. 

Depreciation on the 2.0t petrol Stinger £20,100 over 3 years and 36,000 miles whereas Jaguar XE loses £21,316 and Alfa Giulia loses £18,177 according to Auto Express this week.

& if you check their past 'predictions' they are nonsense, so they need to get Derren Brown on their payroll.

KIA Dealerships sitting with Stinger Demonstrators @ £34.995 were just not prepared to have them looking as depreciating disasters, just as Jag, Alfa, Audi, BMW, Merc and the others never want.   Asking Prices, can not drop much but let us see what we can do on 'cost to change' ie give you a great Trade in value.

http://fiskens.co.uk   GT S, £34.995   4,5000 miles.

Edited 30 June, 20187 yr by Offski

Yup, currently 22 Stinger GT S on Autotrader between £33-35k. Most are ex-demonstrators. 

 

I suspect a positive enquiry with a decent trade-in might see a sale nearer £30k. That’s a lot of car for £30k. 

Obviously little interest from the British Public for a used £33,000 Kia. PS. Don't cry for me Argentina. It's a cruel game but someone has to lose.

Surely not a touch of badge snobbery from a Skoda owner? 

5 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Depreciation on the 2.0t petrol Stinger £20,100 over 3 years and 36,000 miles whereas Jaguar XE loses £21,316 and Alfa Giulia loses £18,177 according to Auto Express this week.

'

NO! NO! NO!   People have this depreciation lark all wrong. Depreciation is the difference between what you buy the car for and what you sell it for.  If they don't know what price you pay for a car...

 

We all live in a real world, not a paper one. Auto Express have about as much a clue as my Aunt Fanny as to how much those cars depreciate.

6 hours ago, Offski said:

& if you check their past 'predictions' they are nonsense, so they need to get Derren Brown on their payroll.

 

Couldn't agree more.  How many more times am I going to read these 'experts' telling us about Mercedes Benz 'rock solid residuals'. Makes my blood boil everytime I hear it because the Merc was by far the most expensive car I've every owned.

 

6 hours ago, dunc69 said:

@Scot5I initially disagreed with @vRSAnt too, but my fledgling research tells me that the 3.3 GT S version of the Stinger may hold its value pretty well.

 

The obvious question is what evidence have you gathered that will tell you the Stinger may hold it's value pretty well? Very curious about the 'fledgling research'.

Autocar are crackers at the Depreciation Game.

 

Take 2014 and the Fabia Mk3 which they make Autocar of the year even before any customers had them & even though they have the VW Polo with lower servicing and running costs and depreciation given compared to the Skoda.

A year later Fabia still there as Used Car of the year.

(Odd that the Polo Servicing is supposedly cheaper and running costs less for cars with the same components and service schedules.)

 

Autocar never bother to go back after 2 or 3 years and see that their 'depreciation guess' / spin for their best and most profitable advertiser was nonsense if someone bought a New Fabia then tried selling it to a Main Dealership 

without actually a Trade In, or a Guaranteed Value handing back a leased or financed car.

Edited 30 June, 20187 yr by Offski

27 minutes ago, dunc69 said:

Surely not a touch of badge snobbery from a Skoda owner? 

 

I wouldn't pay that much for a Kia though. They're good enough cars, but when you start paying that much money, you at least want a head turner for the right reasons.

 

I know our cars are budget VW's to a certain extent, but the quality and reliability can be trusted. Just look under the bonnet and everything has a VW / Audi part number on it.

 

So if the parts are good enough for their higher brands.......

59 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

 

The obvious question is what evidence have you gathered that will tell you the Stinger may hold it's value pretty well? Very curious about the 'fledgling research'.

At this stage just reading every article and watching every (half decent) video and taking on the thoughts / views of ‘so-called’ motoring experts. 

 

In reality, only time will tell. 

11 hours ago, Scot5 said:

 

What an odd thing to say. It's certainly true when it comes to specialist / highly desirable cars, but rule of thumb amongst mass market cars is the more unusual, the MORE it depreciates.

 

 

Supply and demand.

So explain this scenario, you go haggling at the dealer, I will give you X for this car I aint paying a penny more than ( some derisory offer).
They can just say, its one of X cars ( single digit) in the country for sale right now. Jog and get it somewhere else then !!
When you realise its the only one anywhere in the area, and you might have to cross the country to try and save say £1k diff come back to us !
Your response ?

Oh and the Stinger GT ISN'T a highly desirable car ?
Its clearly recognised on here to be more desirable than most Skoda models, and in its pricing bracket is niching towards the premium ( you are starting to look at Jag F money) and has an unusually large petrol engine.

 

You can argue porsche models including 911 are more "mass market" than the Stinger GT. They have sold more of specific models like the 911 carrera 4 GTS!!

How many left has them at around 242 sales t/d assuming thats the 3.3 and its accurate.

Im with the OP on this, in that I think it would be looney tunes to actually pay that much and if it did heavily depreciate I'd be well interested if it was really "down to earth"
Sadly I don't think it will happen that soon and its started off with pie in the sky prices not likely to erode heavily overnight.
but clearly Kia are pitching that car out there as a "flagship" model and probably don't expect much sales and have made it almost deliberately unaffordable, its more about kudos and brand and they aren't going to be keen to devalue that by letting their flagship be seen as a "cheap used buy".
Even if it ends up in smaller dealers with more wear after some more time, they are more likely to up the sales tactics as above too, they will use every bit of its uniqueness to try and make some dough out of it not wanting to give it away for nothing. Its not like its a run of the mill Mondeo and we aren't talking about the 2.0 model here.

To put into perspective though if they do come out with the MG emotion think I've cast my eye over they suggested it would make production and be affordable for below 30k. Its also latest fuel tech not outgoing combustion engine and might be a smidgen faster to 60 if the stats hold up.

8 hours ago, dunc69 said:

Yup, currently 22 Stinger GT S on Autotrader between £33-35k. Most are ex-demonstrators. 

 

I suspect a positive enquiry with a decent trade-in might see a sale nearer £30k. That’s a lot of car for £30k. 

 

Its also a lot of money for a 1 year old car. Possibly stretching a bit but could be looking towards stuff like Jag F a few years older.

Forgetting the boring "ooh I've got 10 kids to transport" argument ( we aren't all blighted) and just selfishly on desirable exciting cars for a moment, for that kind of wonga would you you still pay all that for a Kia ?? Ok I suppose you have the warranty thing.

Just one example I quickly found on ebay THIS is a lot of car for similar money and its not a KIA !!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-F-TYPE-3-0-V6-S/173386063533?hash=item285e9d5ead:g:3gIAAOSwFZtbNmZE

Depends what you want and need I guess.  The Jag is gorgeous and, as you say, a lot of car for the £. 

 

But, sadly, I am ‘blighted’ by my other responsibilities - two rapidly growing kids! (Anyway, I was a TVR Chimaera man back in the pre-children days!) 

 

The Jag is also 5 years old and they are not the best put together cars IMO - and their infotainment is (or was in 2013) woeful. 

 

I freely admit that as life moves on, as well as loving a powerful car, I am more interested in the latest toys too. 

 

The Stinger GT S therefore ticks a lot of boxes for my needs / wants:

 

Space, lots of pace, all the latest tech included, a bit different (not a fan of Audi, BMW, Merc, not value for my money), and the ability to be an extremely comfortable largish cruiser (if the video reviews are to be believed) in Comfort mode for longer family trips. 

 

The issue might be deciding between this and a cheaper Superb 280 as this also ticks most of the above boxes.

 

One thing in the Kia’s favour is the rarity value - there are quite a few S3s out there now.  I also quite fancy a change. The Superb is very similar inside to my well-specced Octy 3. On the other hand I love the way the Stinger looks, both inside and out. 

 

Anyway, I’ve only had my O3 for 13 months, so have 18-24 months to follow the market and then decide! 

11 hours ago, vRSAnt said:

 

Supply and demand.

So explain this scenario, you go haggling at the dealer, I will give you X for this car I aint paying a penny more than ( some derisory offer).
They can just say, its one of X cars ( single digit) in the country for sale right now. Jog and get it somewhere else then !!
When you realise its the only one anywhere in the area, and you might have to cross the country to try and save say £1k diff come back to us !
Your response ?

 

What's the point of making a derisory offer? My offer would be what I believe the car is worth, if it was overpriced I wouldn't waste my time making an offer. However the dealer didn't accept my reasonable offer my response would be " I'll try other dealerships and if none of them will sell me a car, I'm better off going to another manufacturer altogether." And then I'd walk away.

 

1: Dealerships need to sell cars to survive.  Question I'd be asking myself - If that's the only car then why isn't already snapped up? Answer - the probability is nobody else is interested in it.

 

2: If someone want's to pay max. value for a car then if they're happy to do it, no problemo. They won't get a penny more for it when it comes time to sell than someone who secures a discount  - in otherwords that particular car is going to suffer higher depreciation. That might be acceptable  people but not to me. ( I'm Scottish ). I'll pay what the car is worth + some profit for the dealer.

 

3: No other cars? Which tells me it's not cost effective for the dealerships or even the UK distributer to stock parts so in the event something is faulty / needs replacing / gets damaged, rather than order a part and collect it 24hr later, it's probably going to have to be shipped from the supplier / factory. Apart from the inconvenience to me, it also means potential repair issues if I have an accident. What I'd then do (if I hadn't already do so) would be to get an insurance quote because higher repair costs usually means higher insurance - a knock on effect being which also affects the car's depreciation.

 

Nope, they'd have to look for some other mug if they're going to sell that car.

 

Quote

Oh and the Stinger GT ISN'T a highly desirable car ?

 

No.

Quote

 

You can argue porsche models including 911 are more "mass market" than the Stinger GT. They have sold more of specific models like the 911 carrera 4 GTS!!

 

The topic is desirability. If it's your belief that a Stinger is more desirable than a 911, or that Porsche is more mass market than KIA, then in you're mind you're right. At the end of the day it's only the buyer's view that counts.

Quote

...but clearly Kia are pitching that car out there as a "flagship" model and probably don't expect much sales and have made it almost deliberately unaffordable, its more about kudos and brand and they aren't going to be keen to devalue that by letting their flagship be seen as a "cheap used buy".

 

I agree with your first point that they don't expect volume sales but to suggest deliberatly making it unaffordable!  That'd be a pretty mad way of doing business - KIA haven't grown over the years by making their cars unaffordable, they did it by doing exactly the opposite - they sell on perceived value for money.

 

Does anyone know what sort of GFV  KIA finance are placing on the car? That should show their expectations.

Quote

Even if it ends up in smaller dealers with more wear after some more time, they are more likely to up the sales tactics as above too, they will use every bit of its uniqueness to try and make some dough out of it not wanting to give it away for nothing. Its not like its a run of the mill Mondeo and we aren't talking about the 2.0 model here.

 

I'll make a prediction (based on the principal - the only accurate way to predict the furtue is to take account of the past).  KIA dealers won't want to touch this car with a barge pole on the used car market. Honda used to sell a car called the Legend - it was a fantastic car in all sorts of ways and very popular in other markets. Here in the UK? I know a Honda dealer who'd put part-ex out to auction because he couldn't shift them on his fourcourt. The trade hated them too. Kia are making the exact same mistake as all the Japanese and French have done in the UK over the years. They too introduced some very good 'flagship' models...  all failed here in UK. They may have a chance if they came up with a near faultless SUV, but a large engined performance four-door saloon? If it doesn't have a German badge or some heritage behind it then it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Quote

To put into perspective though if they do come out with the MG emotion think I've cast my eye over they suggested it would make production and be affordable for below 30k. Its also latest fuel tech not outgoing combustion engine and might be a smidgen faster to 60 if the stats hold up.

 

MG ?   You seriously couldn't have picked a better example of a company so out-of-touch with the UK market. They too introduced an engine that few people were interested in. They lost money so fast, dealers were refusing to accept them as part-ex.

 

Back to KIA - a 3.3 litre engine in an unpopular 4dr body style, with no badge history from a brand synonomus with value for money. Sitting alongside that £40 grand beauty in the showroom (which has more an Aldi atmosphere about it than John Lewis) is a KIA Picanto...  It doesn't really have that much going for it when it comes to depreciation, but as they say - only time will tell.

 

Edited 1 July, 20187 yr by Guest

Regarding depreciation and Kia's have to say not as bad as you would think. Bought new in 2009 Kia Picanto 1.1 Chill (air con version) 5 door in metallic silver. Cost new £6,200. Ran it for 4 years (wife worked locally) and it did 14,500miles with FSH.

Traded in for used Skoda Superb in 2013 and offered £3,950 so do the maths either percentage wise or in money lost it was very cheap motoring.

6 hours ago, Scot5 said:

 

What's the point of making a derisory offer? My offer would be what I believe the car is worth, if it was overpriced I wouldn't waste my time making an offer. However the dealer didn't accept my reasonable offer my response would be " I'll try other dealerships and if none of them will sell me a car, I'm better off going to another manufacturer altogether." And then I'd walk away.

 

1: Dealerships need to sell cars to survive.  Question I'd be asking myself - If that's the only car then why isn't already snapped up? Answer - the probability is nobody else is interested in it.

 

2: If someone want's to pay max. value for a car then if they're happy to do it, no problemo. They won't get a penny more for it when it comes time to sell than someone who secures a discount  - in otherwords that particular car is going to suffer higher depreciation. That might be acceptable  people but not to me. ( I'm Scottish ). I'll pay what the car is worth + some profit for the dealer.

 

3: No other cars? Which tells me it's not cost effective for the dealerships or even the UK distributer to stock parts so in the event something is faulty / needs replacing / gets damaged, rather than order a part and collect it 24hr later, it's probably going to have to be shipped from the supplier / factory. Apart from the inconvenience to me, it also means potential repair issues if I have an accident. What I'd then do (if I hadn't already do so) would be to get an insurance quote because higher repair costs usually means higher insurance - a knock on effect being which also affects the car's depreciation.

 

Nope, they'd have to look for some other mug if they're going to sell that car.

 

 

No.

 

The topic is desirability. If it's your belief that a Stinger is more desirable than a 911, or that Porsche is more mass market than KIA, then in you're mind you're right. At the end of the day it's only the buyer's view that counts.

 

I agree with your first point that they don't expect volume sales but to suggest deliberatly making it unaffordable!  That'd be a pretty mad way of doing business - KIA haven't grown over the years by making their cars unaffordable, they did it by doing exactly the opposite - they sell on perceived value for money.

 

Does anyone know what sort of GFV  KIA finance are placing on the car? That should show their expectations.

 

I'll make a prediction (based on the principal - the only accurate way to predict the furtue is to take account of the past).  KIA dealers won't want to touch this car with a barge pole on the used car market. Honda used to sell a car called the Legend - it was a fantastic car in all sorts of ways and very popular in other markets. Here in the UK? I know a Honda dealer who'd put part-ex out to auction because he couldn't shift them on his fourcourt. The trade hated them too. Kia are making the exact same mistake as all the Japanese and French have done in the UK over the years. They too introduced some very good 'flagship' models...  all failed here in UK. They may have a chance if they came up with a near faultless SUV, but a large engined performance four-door saloon? If it doesn't have a German badge or some heritage behind it then it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

 

MG ?   You seriously couldn't have picked a better example of a company so out-of-touch with the UK market. They too introduced an engine that few people were interested in. They lost money so fast, dealers were refusing to accept them as part-ex.

 

Back to KIA - a 3.3 litre engine in an unpopular 4dr body style, with no badge history from a brand synonomus with value for money. Sitting alongside that £40 grand beauty in the showroom (which has more an Aldi atmosphere about it than John Lewis) is a KIA Picanto...  It doesn't really have that much going for it when it comes to depreciation, but as they say - only time will tell.

 

True I agree, only time will tell
We are talking about massive depreciation within a year here. IF it happens like the OP hopes I'll be over it like a rash too. I suspect it will take longer to really hit serious depreciation.

Although It would be better to go for a Nissan 370 type thing as much better value for now, its been around for so long it doesn't have the freshness and excitement about it so a far better used buy, plenty to pick from too.

1/
I doubt dealers are relying on selling the Stinger with such small numbers -
I think it has real estate in those dealers and has a factor of kudos and osmosis and if they get the odd sale at that price marque so be it, but they are more likely to make their bread and butter on the run of the mill cars - just like other brands its a useful upseller of cheaper cars.

 

2/ I'm 100% with you on that. I'm the same to be honest.

 

3/ I'm not sure that parts issue supply is a 100% true of link to crashing depreciation, look at the Vauxhall VXR8 that was being sold til recently and I doubt that shared much with its family and people with them might worry about parts but its had no impact on values, etc.
That is a good comparison actually, quite niche as a very high performance big engine, , being a v8, but in a quite dumpy frame if we are honest, you would not particulary think it as "exotic". But yet the community of the cars that does exist is strong
Despite that they command a unique value, if you want one you have to pay the going rate which ain't cheap - or jog on.
( again, if they hit sensible money I'd be over one of those too). Instead, consider around 20k for 2009 model !

Oh and while you are at it, going to MG, well beg to differ on that too the 260 hp MG ZT 4.6L despite being a ridiculous engine choice has again seen its small numbers and niche positioning gain custom following and difficulty getting one for love nor money ( if there are any to buy).
Consider about 10K, one on ebay at the moment for 11k ( admittedly they may have dipped a bit lower than that before coming back up again).
 

Ok this is only a v6 and smaller engine, but if anything makes it easier to live with as a compromise, which might be in its favour as a "special big engine car"?
Time will tell, cash waiting if you are right so in a way I hope to be wrong

Edited 1 July, 20187 yr by vRSAnt

Something about the Stinger reminds me of the VW Phaeton scenario - great car, crazy depreciation, sold loads in other markets, epic fail commercially in the UK...

 

Happy for Kia to prove me wrong though.

 

As I've mentioned on another thread though, just had a demo Hyundai i30 N Performance for a few days and thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

Now there's an example of beating the big boys at their own game 

Hyundai, Kia and now Genesis (in the US) are all the same company. 

 

The i30 N is another great example. They are catching up very quickly and in some cases even getting ahead of the game. 

 

 

But where is the epic depreciation of the Stinger ? Its advertising at roughly £34k as has been discussed but thats not at all surprising to lose a huge % just rolling out the forecourt on ANY car. The telling thing is a year old model for 34k. That's only about 15% thats good !

 

Try it with your Skoda. A vRS 2017 maybe circa 19k for 2017 thats about 26% depreciation, far worse than the Kia, almost the same amount of money lost for a far cheaper car not quite half the price but round about.

There is a 2016 M5 on autotrader with 14k for 58k when new they are circa 90k. You want to talk to me about depreciation !
Well one for the badge snobs .....Thats over 35% depreciation in 2years worse than the Kia! So much for the respected BMW brand. Yes its a massively more expensive car too but just putting into perspective........

So, this from What Car this month in their best executive car over £36k category. 

 

I think, steadily, the Stinger GT S is becoming properly appreciated.

 

 

Depreciation may not be as I hoped!

Edited 21 July, 20187 yr by dunc69

23 hours ago, dunc69 said:

So, this from What Car this month in their best executive car over £36k category. 

 

I think, steadily, the Stinger GT S is becoming properly appreciated.

 

 

Depreciation may not be as I hoped!

 

Depreciation not as you hoped just because it's a best buy? Skoda Octavia is also a best buy and as we all know, that depreciates like a brick. Vauxhall Zafira is also a category winner, and it's depreciation makes a brand new Octavia look like a sound investment 

 

1 minute ago, Scot5 said:

 

Depreciation not as you hoped just because it's a best buy? Skoda Octavia is also a best buy and as we all know, that depreciates like a brick. Vauxhall Zafira is also a category winner, and it's depreciation makes a brand new Octavia look like a sound investment 

 

 

@dunc69 @Scot5

 

What Car also did an in-depth comparison between the Audi Sportback S5 and the Kia Stinger GT S. Depreciation was almost exactly the same on both, with them both retaining around 50% of their original cost after 3 years.

 

Until seeing this, I'd expected the Kia to be significantly worse because of its non-German, non-premium image. I doubt I'm the only one making this assumption.