Skoda Gone!....Watch this space...

[GeneralPurpose]

My Fabia DSG has been gone nearly a week. Even though I fell out of love with it's shape and the ride comfort over the very rough roads I have in my town, and some other things about the car, I miss seeing it in the garage and on my drive. 

 

However, for my initial most obvious to me comparison between the Skoda 1.2TSI 110ps DSG Hatch, and my new Citroen C3 Flair 1.2 110ps 3 cylinder EAT6 automatic Hatch, is the almost total lack of mechanical engine noise upon startup on the C3 whether hot or cold.  The engine goes straight to a nice even very quiet tickover without any knocking, clanking, ticking, rattling or any of the other plethera of noises the Skoda TSI engines made when started cold or quite often when hot. I'd point out it's normal for the TSI engines to make these mechanical noises, but it's nice to have a very quiet engine again. As a retired mechanical engineer, I'm loving it!

 

I won't be making much of a comparison between the two cars just yet as I want to drive the C3 for a few more miles before doing the review. I've only covered 200 miles so far. The forthcoming review is only for anyone that's interested in seeing a comparison about the Fabia and the Citroen competition. I'll make it as accuratet as possible and I'll be as objective as I can be. I'll also let you know how the new Euro 6.2 engine spec with PPF affects the car(s). I will say though, so far the C3 is performing beautifully and is very smooth, powerful and economical. The extra cabin space in the front is nice too. Loving everything about it so far especially the 205nm of torque at 1500rpm!

 

Take care everyone, it's tough on the streets... 

 

 

[krigl]

11 minutes ago, Estate Man said:

and some other things about the car

May I ask what other things?

[GeneralPurpose]

Hi Krigl, yes...in the main my reasons for changing were:

 

- fell out of love with the shape of the car....others may feel that's a bit of silly reason;

- grew to dislike the ride over bumps. Was finding it very crashy and jarring, this was increasingly affecting my wife who has issues with her neck and spine;

- didn't like the array of noises these later TSI engines make;

- the whole car was getting creaky and rattly and I couldn't fix them. Found this incredibly annoying.

 

There is another one not actually concerning the car, but involving the service I received from an individual during my rejection of my first MK3 Fabia that hacked me off and tainted the brand but we won't go there. I didn't change the car because of concerns over the DSG clutch system. The auto system was great. In fact, most folks would not have changed the car for just these reasons I've outlined as there was nothing actually wrong with the car. I just felt a change was due. I've been with Skoda for 11 years and I felt I needed to look outside for a change. 

[Breezy_Pete]

All the best with your C3, hopefully you'll keep dropping by here?

 

Must admit, I bought my car mainly on the basis of the wonderfully quiet engine.

[GeneralPurpose]

Thanks Wino. 

 

Yes the TSI engine is actually very quite once warmed up I found. But hot and cold starts on many of these engines can be very noisy with knocking and rattles. They don't cause any harm but I found these noises very annoying, especially when passengers comment on them. But hey ho, that's life! 

[RickW]

I love the Marmite Fabia shape so each to their own 

[GeneralPurpose]

Yes indeed Rick, I think most folks like the Fabia shape. I did once. Continue to enjoy your car.

[Robjon]

Hi EM, I've followed several of your threads with great interest.  I wish you well with your C3 and it seems Citroen (cars and dealers) have improved beyond recognition since the time of my Mk1 Berlingo.  I look forward to your forthcoming review.

 

The Fab Estate (with pano roof) was the one car that could have tempted me away from a Yeti when considering a replacement for my much-loved Roomster.  And when the time eventually comes to replace my Yeti, the Fab Estate could still be a contender.  I note your comment about the ride, which you considered "crashy and jarring".  May I please ask the size of the wheels and tyres on yours?  Thanks.

[Skodaboy1983]

Looking forward to hearing about the C3.

 

 

Davy

[AGFalco]

I have just has a Citroen C3 Aircross as a hire car in Spain.

Might put my tuppence worth in later. Different.

 

Thanks AG Falco

 

 

[rum4mo]

I had a C3 Picasso for hire in Puglia a few years ago, it was excellent for that job, also  Pug 30? a few years before that in Portugal again excellent for that and again a year before in Tuscany.

 

My only complaint about the Picasso was the length/height of the rear door and the distance the idiots at the car hire parked it from a large steel pillar!!

Cases got thrown in through the rear side doors, what were these car hire idiots thinking about, have they never been away on holidays?

[2ndskoda]

12 hours ago, Estate Man said:

Thanks Wino. 

 

Yes the TSI engine is actually very quite once warmed up I found. But hot and cold starts on many of these engines can be very noisy with knocking and rattles. They don't cause any harm but I found these noises very annoying, especially when passengers comment on them. But hey ho, that's life! 

 

Like you EM, I too (Ex Motor Trade) get very disappointed to hear all the knocks / rattles etc from the engine at start up. I look back to the days when an engine was really sweet and did not suffer from drain down and hydraulic follower rattles etc. The VW/Skoda TSI's begin life quite quiet - but at around 10k/15k they sound like a bag of nails. It really is most annoying.

[GeneralPurpose]

13 hours ago, AGFalco said:

I have just has a Citroen C3 Aircross as a hire car in Spain.

Might put my tuppence worth in later. Different.

 

Thanks AG Falco

 

 

 

Hi AG, yes the C3 Aircross is quite an eye opener. But it's quite a different car to the C3 hatchback range. It runs on a completely different floor pan, different body etc, although the engines and gearboxes are the same. I went out in one and found it ok, but kept being drawn to the C3 5dr hatch. Do chime in with your thoughts about the Aircross though. I'd like to hear them, as would many other folks I understand,  from mails I'm getting.

[GeneralPurpose]

8 hours ago, 2ndskoda said:

 

Like you EM, I too (Ex Motor Trade) get very disappointed to hear all the knocks / rattles etc from the engine at start up. I look back to the days when an engine was really sweet and did not suffer from drain down and hydraulic follower rattles etc. The VW/Skoda TSI's begin life quite quiet - but at around 10k/15k they sound like a bag of nails. It really is most annoying.

 

Yes, this is the one disappointment I felt about the TSI engine. It seems to vary a bit, but most are just not a mechanically quiet engine during startup. This can happen when cold or hot. Those knocks, rattles and clicks actually don't cause any harm, but as a mechnical engineer, it was a constant annoyance to me. Most engines just get quieter and quieter as the miles go on the clock, but apparently, not the TS1 engine. All my neighbours TSI engined cars sound the same too with quite a collection of noises upon startup especially in winter when the engines are cold. I find it quite amazing that one of the biggest car producers in the world makes engines like that. As an ex-engine design and development engineer myself, I can see no reason at all why the TSI should have been made this way. It's easy to fix or prevent these noises during the design and development stage. So why didn't they? It's bad design in my opinion. 

 

When I rejected my first Mk3 Fabia with the 110ps engine, it made huge amounts of knocking noises whether hot or cold and it really went well beyond any normality. Independent reports that both Skoda and me had done on the car indicated an issue with the car, as did my own dealers master technician. Yet the dealer personnel in charge did not want to accept this. It couldn't be fixed and yet my dealer did not want the car to be rejected and fought against this initially. This was inspite of Skoda UK and VW Finance agreeing there was an issue and wanting to replace the car. So it came to the point where I had to threaten legal action to force them to comply with the law. As soon as I mentioned legal action (and I was serious about going legal and had already seen my solicitor who specialises in this type of thing, he's one of my nephews!) Skoda almost pleaded with me NOT to go that route. The very next day I received a call to say they were going to exert more pressure on the dealer to accept the situation. It appeared they really didn't want any pulicity drawn to the noise the engines produce. That seemed pretty clear. The rest is history .

 

I want to make it clear that during the negotiations that Skoda Uk and VW Finance were pretty darn good at dealing with my issue in a very sympathetic and practical way. They wanted things to happen quickly for me but the sticking point appeared to be just one person at my dealership. He obviously thought he was doing the right thing for his dealership, but from my point of view didn't seem to understand the issues with the car properly and even made statements that were not correct and in total contradiction of his master tech. I had to enlighten him at every stage and we slowly moved forward until we hit a brick wall, much to my and Skoda UK's and VW Finances frustration. They can't force a dealer to accept a car back, they have no juristiction as the contract is between me and the dealer. But in the end, the dealer came through for me AFTER a 4 month battle. I still have high regard for the dealer staff and techs, they are first class, but I won't be buying another car from them just yet! The dealer caused considerable concern and frustration totally spoiling the new car experience!

 

[Greenie58]

Never owned a Citroen myself but a mate had one, a lot of my friends are anglers like myself so we always go for estates to get all our gear in, mate Gary had a C5  and I was very impressed with the suspension which Citroen are famed for obviously and how quiet the engine was for diesel but most of all the build quality which was very good. Good luck.

[Warrior193]

Hi EM, it is a pity when one person in a dealership can spoil the new car experience when a problem crops up. Interesting and disapointing that Skoda UK apparently felt unable to apply a little diplomatic pressure on the dealer - when all is said and done, the dealer is holding a franchise - and you could argue that Skoda UK should have a strong interest in maintaining the brand.  

[GeneralPurpose]

Hi Warrior, yes indeed. Skoda Uk and VW Finance did actually apply pressure and co-ordination between me and the dealer at all times but failed to make the right impression on the dealer. It was only because Skoda Uk and VW Finance were so good that I refrained from going legal much earlier. Reading between the lines Skoda Uk were as frustrated with their dealer as I was and in the end I suspect made quite a lot of noise over the issue. They certainly didn't want it to go legal as my case was watertight and the publicity would not have looked good for the dealer or Skoda.

[GeneralPurpose]

33 minutes ago, Greenie58 said:

Never owned a Citroen myself but a mate had one, a lot of my friends are anglers like myself so we always go for estates to get all our gear in, mate Gary had a C5  and I was very impressed with the suspension which Citroen are famed for obviously and how quiet the engine was for diesel but most of all the build quality which was very good. Good luck.

They make some of the quietest diesels around and in fact sometimes they even sound like a petrol engine. It's quite hard to tell they are diesel.

[GeneralPurpose]

22 hours ago, Robjon said:

Hi EM, I've followed several of your threads with great interest.  I wish you well with your C3 and it seems Citroen (cars and dealers) have improved beyond recognition since the time of my Mk1 Berlingo.  I look forward to your forthcoming review.

 

The Fab Estate (with pano roof) was the one car that could have tempted me away from a Yeti when considering a replacement for my much-loved Roomster.  And when the time eventually comes to replace my Yeti, the Fab Estate could still be a contender.  I note your comment about the ride, which you considered "crashy and jarring".  May I please ask the size of the wheels and tyres on yours?  Thanks.

 

Robjon, yes my Fabia had the 15" wheels which are much better than the 16" lower profile tyre car at going over the bumps. Yet we still found it rather crashy on many roads in our town. My new C3 has 16" 205/55 alloys. But due to the suspension setup it's really smooth over the bumps. It's magic! 

[horkin]

This feels alarmingly like yet another 'why I dislike the Fabia' threads. I do wonder what some of you are doing on here. 

 

Honestly, this is a Skoda Fabia forum designed for Fabia lovers. We happen to like the characteristic noises our little Fabia's make and the Tsi engine is a fine reliable engine. There are a host of forums available for those who's sentiments lie elsewhere.

 

Harry

[rum4mo]

Skoda other VW Group car users/owners I think more correctly tags users of this Briskoda site.

[GeneralPurpose]

Harry, as I make clear in my opening post, this is a thread for 'only' those that are interested! We are discussing Skoda issues that some of us dislike, or like come to that. I've been asked why I decided to trade my Skoda. I've explained.  I don' t see what's alarming about it.  I'm not a Skoda hater, far from it. I am being asked questions which I am answering. What are you so alarmed about? Is it that I am making some comments and comparisons about Skoda and the C3? Many folks on here who know me have emailed me asking for a comparison on this site between the Skoda Mk3 and the C3. I'm going to oblige.  I'm not doing anything that hasn't been done many times over the years on this site, so puzzled as to your attitude. 

[horkin]

It's probably just me, I come on here to be in company with SKODA FABIA owners to read about and discuss our common interest. I'm not particularly having a go but I am surprised you're puzzled at that and that another has posted a confused emoji.

 

My experience with owners clubs has been generally a pleasant one where members discuss and enthuse about their cars, tech's offer advice and Area Meets with like minded enthusiasts are commonplace. 

 

I have no problems discussing other makes and models at all. There has been recent references made to the Suzuki Swift and Hyundai models but when it lapses, as it always seems to do with the (may I call them 'usual suspects?) into the demeaning of the Fabia, the Skoda brand and parent Company it becomes tiresome to me and my enthusiasm for the site has waned.

 

I feel sure if anyone visits the Citroen ,Suzuki or Hyundai websites and starts spouting the virtues of the Fabia they'll need their tin hat firmly in place.

 

I don't wish to offend, I come on here for a bit of fun

 

Harry

 

 

 

[lawnmowerman]

Hi Harry

 

I think it is healthy to have open discussions on other makes & models. All good car salesmen (and there are some) learn the strengths and weaknesses of the competition and this understanding allows them to present their cars strengths without being hit by a curve ball by the customer.

 

The first twelve years of my career were with British Leyland and I frequently attended their management centre at Studley College. After I left BL I moved to Audi/VW and often visited their UK head office in Milton Keynes. As it was close to Studley (relatively) I thought I would pop over and visit and look up the old gang. It was in the middle of the Buy British move, an attempt to shore up mediocracy. I was astonished that on arrival non-BL vehicles were consigned to a muddy pot-hole strewn car park some distance from the college. This metaphorical wall that they surrounded their products with merely insulated them from the progress of their rivals and ultimately was their undoing.

 

Skoda, and their adherents need to know the good and the bad (warts and all) otherwise they will not prosper and we will all be the poorer for that.

 

Bill  

[rum4mo]

And on that note I'll add that I still think UK had a chance to get on top of things at the end of the last war when the British Army went in and helped VW back on to its feet, the victors could have learned a bit and if us Brits were not, at that time and probably still now, patting our backs on how good we were, we might all be driving BL cars that were best in the world???????

Maybe not, BMC/BL/BAE would still have managed to keep full of product managers stuffing their pockets and not very much to move with the times.