EV real world range and cost to charge

[lol-lol]

3 minutes ago, toot said:

@lol-lolI have been looking at, sitting in and having a wee drive in a few cars to see what suits me.   Took the e-Megane out and got 3.5 miles per kW, same as I did in a Cupra Born when I drove one.  4 x 60 kWh being 240 miles is OK but 3.5 miles per kWh is really not great.   On way home from having had the test drive I got  3.7 miles a kWh in the Corsa.    If it had 55 kWh usable battery it would make all the difference for me.   Before I went to Perth and back my car was on 50500 miles and adding up all I have paid at chargers with CPS or by card it is under £500.   That is pretty much the end of running for nearly free sadly.     This weekend I have grandchildren and dog and stuff to care for so taking my son's BMW 520 diesel estate because of the big dog but even if it was just the kids I would not be taking the Corsa when it would need at least 4 charges for me over the weekend.   An Easter weekend might just be as bad as it could be if there is charger magedon. 

 

And this is the rub I think and much as I revel in my Zoe ZE50 it winter performance of 3 miles per kWh, 3.5 in the Autumn and Spring and only 4 miles plus per kWh in summer is a bit of an issue when one needs to do 250 mile round trips any time of the year and the Megane E, with its 64 or so kWh hence the Ariya.  I thought I would not go back to VAG but both the 80 kwh Born and Nyak are worth a consideration but always being measured against TESLA of course.

 

UK is out of step with much of the rest of world.  If not direct subsidies as I got with my Zoe, with dealer discount as well as the government bung and what one now can regard as very cheap PCP interest rate ie 3.9% APR it has made sense and although me and my lad are only doing 8k miles a year, nowhere near your 16k or so, I have left we have done something to lower our carbon footprint.

 

There is a EV tsunami coming where their price is falling like a stone due to much lower production costs everywhere but particularly in China, Australia is already seeing it with BYD, 比亚迪股份有限公司, Build Your Dreams, which the Chinese seem to get much more than Western car companies and like MG they will wipe the floor with Western car makers, as can be seen by recent car production and sales figures across the world. There are are several other large Chinese manufacturers who will also contend.

 

All Europe can do is have an anti-dumping meeting and perhaps up the import duties to protect European car producers a little longer but the Chinese will find a way ie use Turkey or the like to find a cheaper way in to our domestic car market.  We need to reduce our carbon quickly, EVs and cheap heat pumps seem the way forward to me. 

 

[wyx087]

2 hours ago, toot said:

4 miles to the kWh in cold weather on the motorway would be lovely,

If you are okay driving at 60mph, sure. 

I don't think even cars known for their efficiency (Ioniq (classic) or Model 3) can achieve that at 70 mph in cold weather. 

 

But if you are looking at efficiency, Ioniq 38 kWh is worth considering? Should do 180 miles. 

[Ootohere]

I know someone with one in South Ayrshire.

They had a 28 kW, swapped for a BMW i3 and were disappointed and went to a Ioniq 38 kW. They are not impressed and that is on ECO tyres and driving solo.

Their  28 kW was more efficient. 

No way will they do 180 miles on winter or all weather tyres with people in the car and comfortable even if you stay at speeds less than others are doing around you.

Good local runabouts though.

Crap rear visibility with those that can not wait to be getting passed you and maybe not go any quicker, and that is often EV drivers. 

Edited 6 April, 2023 by toot

[Ootohere]

My phone pinged and it was an Autocar update.

Maybe just what i next year from Ford.

Puma EV with 136ps, FWD and a 55 kW battery.  The Pump is comfy for me. 

Seems to be mentioned as a Peugeot e-2008 rival.    Now there is an issue, as their range is fiction unless driving to a WLTP regime so not Real World.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2024-electric-ford-puma-bring-134bhp-and-100kw-charging

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 April, 2023 by toot

[wyx087]

May be a rebadge (rounder, smaller) of their up-coming Explorer EV, which is based on VW's MEB platform. Or a EV based on VW's upcoming ID 2 platform?

[Ootohere]

Looking forward to seeing and getting to drive the £20,000 or £25,000 VW Group EV's.

[lol-lol]

4 hours ago, toot said:

Looking forward to seeing and getting to drive the £20,000 or £25,000 VW Group EV's.

 

I get the conspiracy theory doing the rounds that those Chinese companies who make those electrical components and Lithium etc batteries that all EVs need in their production that the supply of such components will continue to be prioritized to the massive, all encompassing Chinese companies rather than Western ones.

 

Western automotive companies, to survive, need either to have their own battery and electrical component divisions or do a joint venture deal with the Chinese,  or they will not survive.

 

I worry it might be such that we are bound to lose companies like Jaguar, unless they get bought my the Chinese as was Volvo, and even the giants like Renault, Stellantis and VW have to adapt or die.

 

[Ootohere]

It seems like Jaguar Land Rover for now is OK being Indian owned and having TESLA as a partner to have their EU / UK Average Fleet Emissions so that they are not getting fined.

 

High time it was weight and size of passenger vehicles that get heavily taxed in the UK. 

Actually taxed on ugliness would be a hard hit on the latest RR's.

Edited 6 April, 2023 by toot

[domhnall]

On 06/04/2023 at 00:43, lol-lol said:

I think that is what I have, a Podpoint Solo, only cost me £449 to install but it is only a 3.6 kw charger but that has worked out fine.

 

I am thinking of a Tesla for my next EV, I tried the Megane-E, which is a sister car of the Ariya, which was OK but not enough of a big step up from the ZE50 Zoe but the Ariya would be I think, if the price ie the £56K for the 87 kwh battery one, comes down similar to Tesla price drops.

 

 

I would not buy another Teslaif you paid me - shocking ownership experience. A long list if faultsI sort of helfexpected but what soured itfor me was their total disinterest in fixing things and in the end resporting to blamingme for some of the defects that were there from day 1.

 

 

[domhnall]

@toot George I think I must have passed you in this latest video, shame the enyaq can get to Aberdeen without charging or I might have bumped into you.

 

enyaq 

[lol-lol]

7 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

I would not buy another Teslaif you paid me - shocking ownership experience. A long list if faultsI sort of helf expected but what soured itfor me was their total disinterest in fixing things and in the end resporting to blaming me for some of the defects that were there from day 1.

 

 

 

Thanks for the feedback.  Being looked after by dealership is very important and TESLA seem to want to do away with Sales dealerships but wes still need TESLA service and repair places.  I need to do more research.  I like the Skoda dealership here in Worcestershire who were not great but have much improved.  Same Group as the Renault dealership here.

 

Lots of factors to consider and a new interesting relationship if I get a car from Octopus Salary sacrifice scheme and then bring it to the local dealership for servicing.  I would expect they are happier with doing the sale themselves but hopefully we can work something out.

 

Renault need to bung the 75-80 kwh battery of the Ariya in to the Megane-E to make it a more proper long range car.  Mind it did do over 20 miles past zero in one test so, typical Renault, the true range is considerably more than the range predictor comes up with but 60 kwh is especially if you do not get the £42k ICONIC model with a heat pump and therefore get even worse winter range ie well sub 200 miles.

 

So many factors to consider, TESLA network much better but as you say both quality and back up service probably worse than most other makes.   

 

[PetrolDave]

1 hour ago, domhnall said:

I would not buy another Teslaif you paid me - shocking ownership experience. A long list if faultsI sort of helfexpected but what soured itfor me was their total disinterest in fixing things and in the end resporting to blamingme for some of the defects that were there from day 1.

Pretty much what my GFs eldest son says about his Tesla - faults not getting fixed and the sparse dealer network not remotely interested in helping fix problems.

[domhnall]

9 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Thanks for the feedback.  Being looked after by dealership is very important and TESLA seem to want to do away with Sales dealerships but wes still need TESLA service and repair places.  I need to do more research.  I like the Skoda dealership here in Worcestershire who were not great but have much improved.  Same Group as the Renault dealership here.

 

Lots of factors to consider and a new interesting relationship if I get a car from Octopus Salary sacrifice scheme and then bring it to the local dealership for servicing.  I would expect they are happier with doing the sale themselves but hopefully we can work something out.

 

Renault need to bung the 75-80 kwh battery of the Ariya in to the Megane-E to make it a more proper long range car.  Mind it did do over 20 miles past zero in one test so, typical Renault, the true range is considerably more than the range predictor comes up with but 60 kwh is especially if you do not get the £42k ICONIC model with a heat pump and therefore get even worse winter range ie well sub 200 miles.

 

So many factors to consider, TESLA network much better but as you say both quality and back up service probably worse than most other makes.   

 

 

mine had so many faults it was unreal. from day 1 it needed a new bumper, driver's door wouldn't close properly.

 

Then they discovered there was not enough coolant in the battery system which meant the whole cooling system had to be replaced. In 14 minths I had 12 differentcourtesy cars, sometimes for weeks at a time. In the end they apparently got bored of all the faults and started arguing that they defects had been caused by me, so I gave up and sold it.

 

Much happier with the Enyaq, it's a much better car all round.

  

[lol-lol]

1 minute ago, domhnall said:

 

mine had so many faults it was unreal. from day 1 it needed a new bumper, driver's door wouldn't close properly.

 

Then they discovered there was not enough coolant in the battery system which meant the whole cooling system had to be replaced. In 14 minths I had 12 differentcourtesy cars, sometimes for weeks at a time. In the end they apparently got bored of all the faults and started arguing that they defects had been caused by me, so I gave up and sold it.

 

Much happier with the Enyaq, it's a much better car all round.

  

 

Good you know, thanks. 

[wyx087]

It's probably a draw of luck with Tesla, same with any dealership TBH. But their Made in China cars are hugely improved in quality.

 

My Model Y had been perfect in fit and finish. I noticed some mist in taillights and they came out fixed in on my driveway within a week. No need to take time off routine visiting any dealership or service centre. All my communication with Tesla before and after purchase were done in efficient and professional manner, my service centre is Park Royal West London, probably one of the better ones.

 

So far, I'm extremely happy with the company and how they've conducted themselves. I have zero problem recommending their product to anyone.

[lol-lol]

3 hours ago, domhnall said:

 

mine had so many faults it was unreal. from day 1 it needed a new bumper, driver's door wouldn't close properly.

 

Then they discovered there was not enough coolant in the battery system which meant the whole cooling system had to be replaced. In 14 minths I had 12 differentcourtesy cars, sometimes for weeks at a time. In the end they apparently got bored of all the faults and started arguing that they defects had been caused by me, so I gave up and sold it.

 

Much happier with the Enyaq, it's a much better car all round.

  

 

Which Kw motor have you got  ???

I drove the 165 kW / 220 hp I think it was, I was not bowled over with.  EVs are heavy cars and it tells in the acceleration and on trying to look at the data on SKoda's website it is hard to drill down to the acceleration figures but I am getting the impression that one has to go for the 4 wheel drive, dual motor versions, which are quite pricey, to get versions that are close to even the slowest accelerating of TESLAs.

 

I will have to research how good my local TESLA dealer is which I presume will be Birmingham, W.Midlands. 

 

[domhnall]

On 08/04/2023 at 23:32, lol-lol said:

 

Which Kw motor have you got  ???

I drove the 165 kW / 220 hp I think it was, I was not bowled over with.  EVs are heavy cars and it tells in the acceleration and on trying to look at the data on SKoda's website it is hard to drill down to the acceleration figures but I am getting the impression that one has to go for the 4 wheel drive, dual motor versions, which are quite pricey, to get versions that are close to even the slowest accelerating of TESLAs.

 

I will have to research how good my local TESLA dealer is which I presume will be Birmingham, W.Midlands. 

 

 

I've got the bog standard 60, but I'm not 18 any more and it's a family car so accelaration ins't somethign I'm really bothered about ,

My wife and son used to complain about feeling sick in the tesla, so we used to take my wife's petrol golf if we were going anywhere as a family. The enyaq is a much nicer place to be.  And it's not back at the workshop every month either. My local 

tesla service centre is suposedly one of the better ones 😕

[domhnall]

On 08/04/2023 at 21:08, wyx087 said:

It's probably a draw of luck with Tesla, same with any dealership TBH. But their Made in China cars are hugely improved in quality.

 

My Model Y had been perfect in fit and finish. I noticed some mist in taillights and they came out fixed in on my driveway within a week. No need to take time off routine visiting any dealership or service centre. All my communication with Tesla before and after purchase were done in efficient and professional manner, my service centre is Park Royal West London, probably one of the better ones.

 

So far, I'm extremely happy with the company and how they've conducted themselves. I have zero problem recommending their product to anyone.

 

my local tesla place is supposed to be one of the better ones too. But they seemed to get fed up trying to fix the issues after about a year or so.

It allwent wrong from day 1 (on reflection I should have really rejected the car) . Instead I waited 6 months for parts to fix defects the car had on delivery (it needed a new front bumper/ nose), then it started to whine noisly on the driveway - eventually they worked out there was insufficient coolant in the battery system, then they realised they hadn't repaired that properly so they had to replace the cooling system, another 4 weeks waiting for those parts.  In 14 months of owning the car I had 11 other cars on loan while mine was in for repair. Eventually they refused to deal with the sand and grit embedded in the paint and said I had caused it. they're an absolute nightmare to deal with, an utter shower.

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, domhnall said:

 

I've got the bog standard 60, but I'm not 18 any more and it's a family car so accelaration ins't somethign I'm really bothered about ,

My wife and son used to complain about feeling sick in the tesla, so we used to take my wife's petrol golf if we were going anywhere as a family. The enyaq is a much nicer place to be.  And it's not back at the workshop every month either. My local 

tesla service centre is suposedly one of the better ones 😕

 

The light that burns twice as bright lasts half as long. 

 

I will see what the pcp deals are, as some believe EV prices are tumbling pcp rise. I have seen Zoes been quoted at 500 a month! 

The big saving with salary sacrifice makes the pcps much more affordable. 

 

[wyx087]

Thanks for the info, that is indeed a nightmare to deal with. I can see why it was such a bad experience.

 

The coolant problem seems like an easy fix but they failed to diagnose properly. Now there's user accessible service screen (through a well spread method) that shows coolant and all car diagnostic messages.

The service section is a record of problems, the bumper problem will be one of it. I can't see how they have the audacity to later turn around and blame you for paint defect, given the service record.

 

For feeling sick, it's probably due to unnecessary fast acceleration + deceleration (mandatory one pedal driving). Have you tried "chill" mode? I drive in this mode all the time and wife+parents+kids all say the car is very smooth and refined. From test driving many and long term EV ownership, I found Tesla pedal mapping is one of the best in the industry.

Sorry, that sounds like fanboy response. Sometimes a car isn't suitable for one person may be the perfect car for someone else. Dealing with the company, in case of a lemon, however...... that kind of experience shouldn't have happened.

[domhnall]

On 10/04/2023 at 21:14, wyx087 said:

Thanks for the info, that is indeed a nightmare to deal with. I can see why it was such a bad experience.

 

The coolant problem seems like an easy fix but they failed to diagnose properly. Now there's user accessible service screen (through a well spread method) that shows coolant and all car diagnostic messages.

The service section is a record of problems, the bumper problem will be one of it. I can't see how they have the audacity to later turn around and blame you for paint defect, given the service record.

 

For feeling sick, it's probably due to unnecessary fast acceleration + deceleration (mandatory one pedal driving). Have you tried "chill" mode? I drive in this mode all the time and wife+parents+kids all say the car is very smooth and refined. From test driving many and long term EV ownership, I found Tesla pedal mapping is one of the best in the industry.

Sorry, that sounds like fanboy response. Sometimes a car isn't suitable for one person may be the perfect car for someone else. Dealing with the company, in case of a lemon, however...... that kind of experience shouldn't have happened.

 

I was in chill mode, my wife just didn't like it, plus the phantom braking she refused to believe wasn't me, I mean what car would randomly do an emergency stop for no reason?  And on a local diual carriageway it invariably swerved and said "autosteer applied for your safety".
 

I am much happier with the enyaq, it's just a better all round package and hasn't had a single problem in 22k miles

 

[wyx087]

My car is 100% vision based autopilot and apart from a few light braking when approaching bridges, I've never had proper full on braking events in all 5k+ I've driven so far. I've read report that since stopped using the radar, false positive emergency braking have greatly reduced.

But I do get where you are coming from regarding autopilot, for me it's the the auto steer, it feels nervous on all but most well marked roads with gentle curves. It's still a good system in terms of UI, but I'm sure other properly validated system will drive with more confidence.

 

What car randomly emergency stop for no reason? My Skoda Octavia had the red collision warning on a few occasions for no good reason. The radar systems are prone to misreading metal objects.

 

Glad you are happy with Enyaq. I test drove it, it's super comfortable and a very good regular car. I personally felt it is not special enough, not enough change from previous Octavia, not worth the similar asking price when spec'ed up to MY LR level.

 

 

Oh yes, @lol-lol, if you are considering Tesla, be sure to get a quote first. They are unreasonably expensive to insure. To some people, unless they really want a Tesla, it's one of the reason to look elsewhere.

[Ootohere]

 

 

[domhnall]

On 12/04/2023 at 22:18, wyx087 said:

 

But I do get where you are coming from regarding autopilot, for me it's the the auto steer, it feels nervous on all but most well marked roads with gentle curves. It's still a good system in terms of UI, but I'm sure other properly validated system will drive with more confidence.

 

What car randomly emergency stop for no reason? My Skoda Octavia had the red collision warning on a few occasions for no good reason. The radar systems are prone to misreading metal objects.

 

Glad you are happy with Enyaq. I test drove it, it's super comfortable and a very good regular car. I personally felt it is not special enough, not enough change from previous Octavia, not worth the similar asking price when spec'ed up to MY LR level.

 

 

 

mine was never on autopilot, it was just cruise control I was using. Even when driving fully manually there was a spot locally where it veered into th outside lane of the dual carriageway every time. Tesla said it was because the car's software is in beta. 

My enyaq was £37k, has triple zone climate, HUD, autopilot that works much better than my model 3 ever did (and it doesn't require you to have the auto wipers wipong like Tesla currently does) , has android auto so I can use google maps (tesla's open source mapping got me lost several times) and the bluetooth actually allows me to have both my work and personal phones connected at the same time so I can answer whichever one rings - amazing tech not available on my model 3

 

[wyx087]

2 hours ago, domhnall said:

mine was never on autopilot, it was just cruise control I was using. Even when driving fully manually there was a spot locally where it veered into th outside lane of the dual carriageway every time. Tesla said it was because the car's software is in beta. 

That sounds defective. I've never had any sort of veering without autopilot. Even with assistive tech such as lane departure, the driver is always in full control without autopilot.

 

With autopilot, it only had problem when being used outside its comfort zone, it tried to follow the yellow chequered box in a junction.