11 minutes ago, toot said:

Much cheapness is what floats my boat. 

 

Plugging in and unlugging done in the rain apart from at 00.30 AM, and a toilet near only at the first charging session. 

Doesn't sound good experience, but we all like cheap travel great economy though. 

 

Got 160 miles planned this Saturday, day out to Silverstone Interactive museum with grandparents. Interesting to see mi/kWh this time with 3 adults and a kid.

 

Tempted to do a quick supercharging demo to show my parents that EV charging is actually super easy. They've not seen good public EV charging experience when I was driving them around in Leaf during previous years. Single rapid locations occupied, not working chargers, etc.

Motorway and others at right time of day / night and 90 miles to 100 in 90 minutes.   Then right on a 50 kW charger for 60 minutes is 30 kWh and another 90-100 miles available.   If it is slower to do the 90 miles then less electric used and maybe less than 60 minutes needed on charger.  When chargers are blocked, out of order, or just crap, maybe like Edinburgh with 30 mins max charging then it becomes a crap day/ night. 

Rather than start a new thread, this seems a reasonably logical thread to ask:

 

If a car can charge 5-80% in 35 mins on 120kw charger, but only 50kw charger is available :

 

A:  in the same time what would the 50KW charger take it to from, say 20% ?

B: If the price is 50p kwh, how much would the 35 minutes cost ?

Well there is weather / temperature, battery size, charger and so many variables.

 

So last night with my 50 kW battery only 45 kW usable i was at 76%.  

-4*oC and plugged into a 50 kW charger.  My car can charge at up to 100kW.

 

So the charger started and gave me 15kW of a charge for a while & when it slowed down to 7 kW i stopped charging, that was at 93%.

 

Not great.  I drove home 1 mile and parked and then the battery was showing 89%.      I will see what it is when i go out and clear the snow and ice and fire it up.

 

so 15kWh for me in 62 minutes and @ 23 pence that was paying it would be £3.45

 

Today i might get 10 miles for that £3.45 if lucky.  But i will be toasty. 

 

................

If you got 25 kW in 35 minutes on a 50 kW charger @ 50 pence a kWh that is £12.50.   If you get 3 miles to a kWh that is 75 miles.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Small battery using 50kW free or low tariff CPS / Evolt chargers and i never get more than 33 kW in an hour.

Same on a PodPoint or InstaVolt 50 kW charger and i have never managed to get a 125 kW BP charger to charge ant faster if even to start.

 

That £6.11 this week was a MINI electric that did charge to full but lost track of how long, but it was quick. 

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by toot

@Mr Grump

 

The maths is reasonably simple, if we assume a perfect system. (e.g. No heat losses, all charge goes to the battery and maximum charging speed at all times). A 120kW charger will deliver 70kWh in 35 minutes, (120/60)*35=70. To get 70kWh out of a 50 kW charger work out the kWh per minute 60/60= 0.833 then divide 70 by 0.833 to get the time taken to deliver 70kWh. 70/0.833=84 minutes.

 

The answer to B is straight forward. 35 minutes @ 120kW is 70kWh, so cost is £35. 

 

This is basic maths, so wondering if I'm falling for some bait? 

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by Luckypants

No bait, just unsure of how it works !

 

I assumed 50kwh charger delivers 50kwh, so though it might be an hour of 50p x 50kw = £25, therefore 35 mins = £25 divided by 60mins x 35 = £14.58

But it looks like thats not correct ?

 

Also no idea of how long it would take a 58 (62) KW battery charge at that rate, just new to this and learning

See the charging time and kW hours from my account. 

**2nd from top, good charge, low battery, hot, weather not too cold and charging just to 85%.**

41 mins 54 seconds. 25.58 kW.  

Or Turnberry Lodge Road charger. Usually a low battery when i start charging and a good charge speed.

 

You get up to 50 kW (maybe just 45kw) starting with a low battery and until the charger slows. That will for longer with a bigger battery.

 

As you will see i seldom get 30 kW in 60 minutes on 50kW (Rapid Chargers).   This is about as poor as EV's get though.

I get 6.6 kW in an hour on a 7kW AC charger, the same on a 11 / 22 or 45 kW AC as i only have a 7kW onboard charger, not a 11, 22 or 45 kW which some cars / vans have.

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by toot

Free CP still exist ? I thought all that was gone.

 

I aim to do most charging at home overnight, but on the odd occasion I want a boost etc while out, or shopping, would it pay to sub to a service, and if so which one ?

I initially assumed all chargers accept bank cards, but it appears not ?

 

Presumably, I also have to provide the CCS to CCS lead for rapid charging, as they are not tethered to the CP stations ?

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by Mr Grump

Remember kW is different to kWh.

50 kW, 120 kW are power rating of the charger.

58 kWh is energy size of the battery.

 

50 kW charges 50 kWh in 1 hour: 50 kW * 1 h = 50 kWh

50 kW charges 100 kWh in 2 hours: 50 kW * 2 h = 100 kWh.

 

For rapid charging, the battery charging characteristic is also important. With ideal conditions (battery pre-heated in winter, cooled in summer) Cupra Born should follow the following charging curve (the green line for faster charger, yellow for 50 kW rapids)

https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/4415872109329-Cupra

 

So your questions:

A. We get 50 kW all the way to 80%. Battery is 58 kWh, therefore 30min (half of 1 hr, simpler to calc than 35min) gives you 25 kWh, which is 43%. So 30min from 20% on a 50 kW charger gets you to 63%.

 

B. 50p/kWh for 25 kWh costs 0.50 * 25 kWh = £12.50.   50p/kWh for 5%-80% on ultra rapid costs 0.50 * (58 * 75%) kWh = £21.75.

For cost calculation, always start from kWh used, because charging speed changes.

 

5 hours ago, Mr Grump said:

I aim to do most charging at home overnight, but on the odd occasion I want a boost etc while out, or shopping, would it pay to sub to a service,

Not worth subbing IMHO. I've yet to use ANY charging away from my house.

 

But it's worth getting Octopus Electroverse for a tiny discount and the RFID card, no subscription cost and works in Europe mainland as well as many chargers here.

Use my link to sign up to Electric Universe & we both get £5 credit! (Removed)

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by john999boy
Referral link removed

FREE Still exists.  There are 32 Local Authority areas in Scotland, most now charge, but that is not in the areas not most populated but where the infrastructure is not the best.

Perth & Kinross do not start charging until 1st January. 

Stirling no word of stopping. South Ayrshire still free and there are others.

 

This is 30 min charging sessions Edinburgh @ 35 pence on 50 kW chargers.  A few are on 7kW when charging up to 100% on the cheaper chargers.

Then Aberdeenshire charging is at 21 or 28 pence and highland at 30 pence.

 

PodPoint @ 40 pence a kWh for a 22 kW or 50 kW charge is as much as i want to pay to get a charge.

50 pence is getting to be too much and 69 pence - £1.00 is going to be only in an emergency situation.

(Adverse weather situations which EV drivers might be seeing this today.)

 

 

 

 

I could maybe live with this.  But i could see this one might just pee me off , the cold range will be crap. 

I would want to try in days like just now.

-3*oC or so driving and charging and on factory tyres on ice and snow and chargers with no ploughing or gritting at them.

 

I need quick de-icing / heating, easily cleared of snow without the air intake blocking, ,wipers that do not freeze in place.

Burttons and nobs and doors /handles / charger port that does not freeze closed if not pre-prepped.

 

Heat to the feet would be nice will still windows do not mist up. 

 

 

 

.......................................

Happens.

Too often for many with EV's.  PITA.  It can really mess up your day having to go get charged someplace before setting off.

Crying kids, angry partner, maybe already in labour or having a stroke / heart attack or just a hissy fit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by toot

The Octopus thing looks handy, pity it doesn't have Podpoint on there, might well sign up though, as it costs nowt

 

Do  the CCS public chargers have leads or do I need to buy one to keep in the boot ? (I Know the car comes with a Type 2).

 

@wyx087 link used

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by Mr Grump

DC Chargers have tethered cables.  the 100 / 100 plus / 350 kW are thicker than the 50 kW tethered.   These are known as CCS. 

45kW AC are tethered on the side of these were there are ones, type 2 fitment.

 

For a AC 7kW, 11 / 22 kW charger have a type 2 cable with you. 

 

Sadly all public hubs in Scotland are not as this for space, cable length. choice of charger.

 

Simplified and it can be easy and it can be damn difficult and annoying. Especially in crap mobile phone / charger sim reception areas.

That can be right in cities or towns not just in the rural areas.

 

 

 

 

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by toot

Clear and simple i hope.    'Fast charge' the stupidest term ever used.

 

26 miles in an hour if getting 4 miles per kWh, 13 if getting 2 miles per kWh.,     I will not get 6 x 1 mile today from an hour on a FAST charger.

 

Hybrids might sit an hour charging on a 7 kW charger and get no more than 3.6 kW in 60 minutes. Depends on the hybrid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by toot

5 hours ago, wyx087 said:

But it's worth getting Octopus Electroverse for a tiny discount and the RFID card, no subscription cost and works in Europe mainland as well as many chargers here.

Use my link to sign up to Electric Universe & we both get £5 credit! (Removed)

Dayam! hooked him before I did 

wyx087 puts it well, most of my charging is at home. I used to make fair use of the Tesco charger in town while it was free but don't bother now as my home tariff is cheaper. The only charging away from home in 21k miles has been on a holiday in Scotland and visiting relatives. Once got a 20 minute top up on a long weekend away when mileage was more than anticipated. Home charging is a game changer if you get a reasonable rate. I don't have an EV tariff but have a good fixed price for next 9 months.

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by john999boy
Quoted link removed.

Just a reminder and to keep everything fair, referral links are not allowed on Briskoda. 

Wow .... Was looking on Zap-Map .... some Instavolt 50kw chargers near me are charging 75p kwh, my day rate is half that !

Mind you, so are Octopus on some of their day rate tarrifs 😲

 

Edit: Actually not an uncommon price around here it appears ! Glad I won't need to rely on those.

Edited 16 December, 20223 yr by Mr Grump

5 hours ago, john999boy said:

Just a reminder and to keep everything fair, referral links are not allowed on Briskoda. 

Sorry, I'll remember not post referral links on here in the future. Thanks for removing it.

 

 

3 hours ago, Mr Grump said:

Actually not an uncommon price around here it appears ! Glad I won't need to rely on those.

Indeed. As Lucky puts it, most of charging will be at home. So the price of rapid charging, especially near home, wouldn't matter vast majority of the time.

FFS. 

18 & 1/2 hours plugged into the 43 kW AC chsrger, which there are actually users of quite often for Rapid AC charging.

No time limit @ 23 pence per kWh.        EDIT,. 22 hours 38 minutes and still sitting locked 🔐 in. 

Edited 17 December, 20223 yr by toot

 

 

Real life where the 0-62 mph time and the very powerful bit did not matter in anyway. 

'He did stick to the speed limit though'.  Well amazeballs.   Next time film breaking the speed limit. 

 

Edited 31 December, 20223 yr by toot

Real world range and costs:

 

I did a return trip 26th and 27th to Leicester. 241 miles. It may be possible to make it back in one charge if I hadn't used sentry mode overnight. But I found a free AC charging spot near the museum we were visiting, so charged there for 4.5 hours.

 

Total cost: £4

Cost per mile: 1.66p/mile

 

Here is my data tracker page for this trip. Record started at 66% and ended at 70%, hence higher "added" compared to "used". Cost of £4.04 is based on amount charged, not amount used. Net consumption is driving, gross consumption includes sentry and running the heating but not driving.

Temperature 3-8c throughout the 2 days.

 

 

Let's say I had to use expensive rapid chargers. Total 80.1 kWh used, let's say 70 kWh from the home charging (7.5p/kWh), 20 kWh at en-route rapid chargers (let's say 60p/kWh), that's going to total £17.25 for this trip. or 6.9p/mile. Still waaaaaay cheaper than any liquid fuel.

Edited 31 December, 20223 yr by wyx087

How come your "free" AC charging cost £4?

Edited 31 December, 20223 yr by Luckypants

I assumed the £4 was the charging at home before setting off.  I am sitting charging for free just now.     So off peak tariff for those with off-street parking and chargers is lovely.  But for those paying 35 pence a kWh that would be 40 kWh costing £14.  If getting 3 miles per kW than that gets you 160 miles, nice.     But than if you then need to pay 70 pence public charging you are @£28.    The thing is real world traveling many will not have a Tesla or big battery car and home charging and cheap tariffs.      But that is not how those selling EV,s are spinning things.  TESLA potential driver / buyers seeing news stories might be rethinking getting one.  Especially if they have not off-street parking, so no home charging and the regularly pile on the miles with employers or other tax payers helping fund their transport. 

.........

The introduction of 28 pence a kWh for 7 kW charging over 15 mins at Tesco certainly ended the many cars being sat plugged in for hours charging free.

There are the odd EV's i see paying, or like me charging free for 15 mins at time and maybe a few times.

Mainly it is PHEV's i see now charging and paying to get the 3.6 kWh for less than their home tariff.

(They could go to the 23 pence a kWh public chargers that are available pretty near but some seem to not be aware of them, pricing not being that clear to see.)

 

All myself alone.  

 

 

 

Edited 1 January, 20233 yr by toot

Wonderful.  Suits you sir!

 

 

As a newbie to this, I would say clearer pricing at point of charge would be better.

Personally, I will be charging at home on my night rate of 23p/kwh, but out of curiosity I have been checking out the charge points when I have been about.

There is no doubt, if the government want to push for poeple to go electric they need to ensure better availability of charge points and incentivise the companies to lower prices.

 

I can't understand why anyone pays for the likes of BP, at a monthly cost then high prices on top.

 

As I read it, Podpoint is free for 15mins pretty much everywhere, so that may be handy

 

FWIW, I signed up for Electroverse and Podpoint, so if I ever need to top up while out I can.

 

@Mr GrumpPodPoint free for 15 minutes will be on a 7kW AC charger. 

So you might get 1.5 kWh in 15 minutes. 

 4 1/2 - 6 miles worth of travel maybe.

 

Plug in 4 times and maybe get 7 kw.  i get 6.6 kW.    that should be 20 miles plus. 

 Just now in the cold weather that just about puts back in 6 miles of trips from the charge the day before.

 

*If you 'Claim' the charger on the App you will stay charging and being paying 28 pence a kWh maybe on the AC 7 kW.*

40 pence on a 22 kW AC and 50 Pence on a 50 kW at Tesco.

At LIDL i paid 40 pence on the PodPoint 50 kW and the AC is the same. This has gone up to 50 pence since i last used them.

 

People pay the price of BP and others for convenience and getting a quick charge and on their way.

Plenty could not care less about the cost of charging from their pocket or from someone else's. 

 

 

Edited 1 January, 20233 yr by toot