I have twice charged at PodPoints at Lidl and they were in car parks that said there was a 2 hour parking limit.

No issue as i was under an hour on the charger.

 

People need to be aware of where they go though if charging.

 

 

 

The BMW i3 was greatly underappreciated when in production.

 

The small battery small cars should fill to 80% quick, but 80% of not much is still not much if you arrive with 10% and charge to 80% only that 70% is just giving a very small range. Using 70% only of battery capacity.

'City cars' that can leave the city but you need lots of charging time.

 

Amazing efficiency from the MINI that has a battery of under 30 kWh (28.9)  usable and is still a heavy car.

Honda-e 28.5 kWh usable. Lots heavier than the Mini Electric.

 

£6-7 for 111 round trip is good compared to petrol.

If you go 111 miles with your home charge, and then need to public charge to get back and put in 25 kWh @ 55 pence a kWh than that is £13.75.

So 222 miles costing maybe £20.       25x 28 pence at home is £7.  Then if you charge at a PodPoint 50kW away from home it can be 28 pence a kWh so another £7.  Nice.  If you only get 3 miles a kWh in cold weather then your are at a different cost all together.  25 kWh taking you 75 miles and 150 miles for the £14 or the £20. 

 

If an ICE gets 55 mpg then 4 gallons @ £8 a gallon = £32.

44 mpg is 5 gallons. £40.  

 

 

 

Edited 14 August, 20223 yr by roottoot

40kW and 150 miles, AC on, not really trying too hard and driving on a motorway as you would normally.

That's about 3.75m/kWh, which is pretty good.

 

If you take that of the 40kW 10 was on an ultra rapid at 60p, 6 on a 7kW destination charger at 30p and the 24 would have been charged at home at say 10p-30p

That's £6.50 + £2.50 (Both inc connection charges) + (say 24*15p) £3.60 = £12.60

 

I'd say that's pretty realistic for a real world mix too.

That's actually a smidge under 9p per mile.

 

Shame the car on loan had 12V battery issues or zombie mode (I presume it hadn't had software updates) and left us stuck if it hadn't been for some other EV drivers.

 

EDIT: to be clear that was from a test drive in the maddening heat of the last few weeks.

Edited 15 August, 20223 yr by cheezemonkhai

^^^ From thsat vid.

So the MINI Electric gets back with 25% battery left.   which is 1/4 is it not?   (According to what i listened to.)

& 24 miles range. 

 

  Is 4 times 24 miles not 96 miles?

The 5.1 is amazing. 

if 100% of 29.9 kWh usable was used that would be 152 miles.      111 miles covered plus 24 miles range left would be 135 miles.  

 

Honda-e with 5% left.   

 5% of 28.5 kWh usable =1.4 kWh x 4.3 is 6.1 miles.   

 4.3 miles per kWh times 28.5 kWh = 122.5 miles. 

.......................................

 

 

 

 

 

.....................

Not a car salesman driving which is a good thing.

Not trying to sell EV's to buyers.

 

18-19*oC and at Motorway speed limit and not above and a true idea of what you will be getting charger to charger & then needing to charge more if you want to continue on further than 90 miles.

 

 

Edited 15 August, 20223 yr by roottoot

Home Tariff for electric with price cap from 1st October.   Normal not off peal etc.

 

52 pence a kWh.     

 

 That will be more expensive charging an EV at home than just buying petrol or diesel for an ICE. 

Just as Public Charging is now for many & that costs might well be up again soon.

 

Nice that the Government have announced in the past days that many new Public Chargers being installed.

I've never been convinced by people who sell me the 'electric dream' based on cost. If fuel keeps coming down and electricity costs hit projected numbers, it's definitely cheaper to run a diesel. Personally, I think my colleagues who go on about the cost savings haven't really understood why EVs are coming. 

 

I'm trying to persuade my father to fill his coal bunker for this winter, as he can still purchase coal for a decent price. Could save him a lot of money, but he won't get his finger out 

It is supposed to be about Emission Reduction and hence the stopping the sale of new ICE vehicles in under a decade, no smoke zones for house fires etc.

 

All a nonsense when England / Westminster requires electric to be generated from Coal, Gas & OIl electric & the Oil & Gas from British Waters used to refine road and heating fuels for the UK.

But then the Oil & Gas coming from British Waters is also powering industry producing materials for EV's as well as electric for them to run on.

2 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

I'm trying to persuade my father to fill his coal bunker for this winter, as he can still purchase coal for a decent price. Could save him a lot of money, but he won't get his finger out 

I've just topped up the heating oil as I'm expecting the price to rise over the coming weeks, not just because of the approaching winter. Lots of German and French commercial users will be forced onto oil when the EU finally bans imports of Russian gas. There is only something like a 2 million barrel reserve of diesel/heating oil this year where normally there is 20 million in reserve in the EU at this time of year. Driving any kind of car will be very expensive this winter.

Edited 26 August, 20223 yr by Luckypants

The running cost benefit is a side effect  just like the solar panels on my roof. 
 

No matter electric generating source, EV will always produce less pollution. Even majority coal powered grid will see a fleet reduction in pollution if they were all EV’s. 

47 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

I've just topped up the heating oil as I'm expecting the price to rise over the coming weeks, not just because of the approaching winter. Lots of German and French commercial users will be forced onto oil when the EU finally bans Russian imports of gas. There is only something like a 2 million barrel reserve of diesel/heating oil this year where normally there is 20 million in reserve in the EU at this time of year. Driving any kind of car will be very expensive this winter.

 

Nahhh, driving my Zoe, charging it overnight on my Octopus 7p per kWh tariff, which works out about 2p per mile lecky cost, super cheapy.

 

Must try and use my £10 of Electric Juice, now called Electric Universe, that £10 get you a lot of Rapid charging but good for emergency and at last test my Rapid Charge CCS DC charging pins.

 

Not needed it in the first 8k of driving as only needed my home and a bit of destination charge (always free) through I have broken two of those crappy Rolec post charging posts which seem to be very fragile.

Electricity from Coal Fired in the UK or Europe will be from Coal coming in from Australia probably, by diesel powered ships.

 

The USA is looking to use their Reserves of Oil / Fuel to settle things.  Well the President is.  

 

We will keep paying the GREEN LEVY on our energy bills while bringing in coal to  the UK because we are as thick as mince.

We will be paying Wind Farms & Solar Farms not to generate electricity because there are contracts with more costly generators that need sticking with. 

Edited 26 August, 20223 yr by roottoot

19 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Electricity from Coal Fired in the UK or Europe will be from Coal coming in from Australia probably, by diesel powered ships.

 

The USA is looking to use their Reserves of Oil / Fuel to settle things.  Well the President is.  

 

Happy to be using a supplier who just sells renewable power generated (or matches them off).

 

I see Bjorn Nyland has taken to hauling an Ecoflow max  2 kWh battery with him, deliberately  running out and recharge using the ecoflow, only get 11 km from that 2 kWh filling an efficient Tesla.

 

UK Renewables includes Wood Chips imported and burnt and now Green Natural Gas as Kwasi Kwereng MP is trying to spin it. 

 

 

Edited 26 August, 20223 yr by roottoot

The problem is peak demand and managing demand vs supply. Currently there's no renewable that can be turned on/off at will. So in a world where the excess supply cannot be stored by "smart" load (EV batteries) or storage (home battery, other large scale storage) renewables must turn off and get paid. In a world where demand cannot be met by stored cheap renewables, biomass will be better than coal/gas.

 

This is why it is absurdly stupid to have a fixed price for electricity throughout the day when its price changes greatly based on demand. Free market need to come into effect here and allow energy prices to go into extremes, so that people who can be flexible have the power to cut their own costs. This in turn reduces peak time demand and helps everyone.

27 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

The problem is peak demand and managing demand vs supply. Currently there's no renewable that can be turned on/off at will. 

*cough* hydro

*cough cough* pumped storage hydro 

 

We need more of both.

12 hours ago, wyx087 said:

The problem is peak demand and managing demand vs supply. Currently there's no renewable that can be turned on/off at will. So in a world where the excess supply cannot be stored by "smart" load (EV batteries) or storage (home battery, other large scale storage) renewables must turn off and get paid. In a world where demand cannot be met by stored cheap renewables, biomass will be better than coal/gas.

 

This is why it is absurdly stupid to have a fixed price for electricity throughout the day when its price changes greatly based on demand. Free market need to come into effect here and allow energy prices to go into extremes, so that people who can be flexible have the power to cut their own costs. This in turn reduces peak time demand and helps everyone.

 

As well as Dinorwig (2 GW x 5 hours) and a few smaller pump storage facilities in other parts of the UK there are more and more battery storage facilities and it is becoming super profitable.

 

The Gridserve electric courtyards each have several MWh of storage so they can download Giga-Joules of energy, soon to be Terra-joules as a business at 4p per kWh to then sell to those EV drivers at 50p per kWh, cracking business.  Then also have the solar on the roof and then fields next to the electric courtyard to add a bit of jam on top as well, nice.

 

At home thousands of is are doing the same.  Buying ever larger battery storage, downloading cheap power at night, 5p or 7.5p or thereabouts , gather solar during the day and running our cars and homes on mostly very cheap lecky and being ready for brown and black outs should they come this winter. 

 

Speaking of electricity storage. I've just signed up to Indra V2H trial. I only learnt about it last night. That hopefully means paying £1600 for the Chademo V2H kit, then I'll effectively have a 18kWh home battery and shift vast majority of my energy use to off peak or free solar. Home only uses around 10kwh each day.

 

The Leaf is only going to be used for school run or going to shops, so can let it be runned down by late evening. Wife is happy with another second hand Leaf in 3-5 years time, probably a 40 kwh Tekna being sold this year or next.

Finally Allstar company "fuel" card now includes Gridserve so that EV company car users can use chargers that have a decent (85%) spread across the Motorway network.

 

Electrical energy is treated same as diesel, LPG and petrol fuel for tax purposes so if using the medium/high powered chargers the tax would be about 10p kWh for the 20% band tax payers, 20p per kWh for higher rate tax payers.

 

Should boost the use of Gridserve chargers though I hear lots of complaints about users only get 33/35 kWh rather than 60 kWh or so. As a Zoe user the 22 kWh 39p sounds one of the best prices out there.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new pricing across the GRIDSERVE Electric Highway chargers is as follows:

• Standalone Low Power AC Chargers    :              39p/kWh
• Electric Forecourts®                                 :              45p/kWh
• Medium Power Chargers                        :              48p/kWh
• High Power Chargers                               :             50p/kWh

 

The cost of Public Charging for Company Car Drivers, Businesses etc will affect us all as that will add to the cost of living.

Actually though i do not really care what those getting Tax Breaks to have a car and businesses that can claim back VAT are paying for their fuel be it electric or liquid fuel.

 

More important to many who work and pay for their own transport, commuting etc and travelling is that they get paid, they are taxed but about 1/3, 

have money and then pay for their own cars and running them. 

From their income after tax they are spending money and paying VAT or Duty on lots of things because that keeps the economy going.

The general public get services, NHS, Education etc etc.

Some get 'Tax Credits' etc, many are not claiming back anything just paying, paying paying paying. 

 

Cars / Vans for Commercial Drivers and Business users are a tool of the trade and an overhead. 

 

  Private users / owners are maybe more aware of the cost and value of travel because it comes out of their own pocket or bank account.

Edited 29 August, 20223 yr by roottoot

Add into the factor the 4 miles per kWh he got.  Add in that Home Tariff's are for those that can charge at their home or someone elses. 

 

Then calculate maybe the 3.5 or maybe 3 miles per kWh in colder weather,

or the just 2.5 kWh that you might get and then the need to get on a public charger.

Real world UK maybe November to April in parts of the UK. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

Add into the factor the 4 miles per kWh he got.  Add in that Home Tariff's are for those that can charge at their home or someone elses. 

Then calculate maybe the 3.5 or maybe 3 miles per kWh in colder weather,

or the just 2.5 kWh that you might get and then the need to get on a public charger.

Real world UK maybe November to April in parts of the UK. 

 

Cheap to run if one is charging at home on the very cheap night-time rates but bloody expensive if one if paying full price at Public Chargers.

 

Sadly most EVs are not suitable for over 250 mile journeys in a days visit to other places of work and especially in the cooler times of the year without big prep ie pre-heating etc.

 

Also with no grants any longer for buying an EV in the UK the car I am in the process of buying is a pure petrol.

Will keep the Zoe for journeys in the Midlands and will continue to look to batteries to carry.

Bjorn Nyland has been carrying the Ecoflow and and extra Ecoflow battery if he runs out and these will get better and better.

 

If one is a highmiler or more importantly a long distance driver then Internal Combustion engines and still the sensible tool of choice.    

I just got 5 miles per kWh with the weather @ 16*oC. That was not all down hill. 

That is thanks to the software update on my car this week. 

  Also got the screen to show the graph of usage having put it to km per kWh.  That is not available in the same way when on miles per kWh showing regen.  

Larry.

But then being on kilometers is no use to me. 

 

 

Edited 8 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

Currently planning a weekend 260 miles round trip to Birmingham. I think I won't need any charging, but if I do, a very quick splash&dash at Rugby service with 12 supercharger and 12 other charger (total 24 compatible) hopefully means zero queuing on Sunday night. I'll be relying on the remaining charge calculation in sat-nav, I've found it to be spot on when driving "70mph" on the right-most lane and I can beat its estimates when driving in traffic at 60-70mph.

 

Vast majority of electricity will be from home at 7.5p/kWh. Battery size is ~78 kWh, I'm confident 3.5 mi/kWh is easily achievable, that means total cost for the 260 miles trip will be less than £5.85. Worst case it's going to be up to £10 if need to public charging, which is still just 3.8p/mile.

 

 

 

TBH, I think it's a case of matching the car to needs. If the person really need to drive 300 miles most days, then a long range EV will still work as long as charging from home on EV tariff. If it's mostly for shorter commuting, a 100-ish car will do the job nicely and without too much extra upfront cost. Then pay slightly more to rapid charging on those rare occasions. Still vastly cheaper than fossil fuel as long as charging from home on EV tariff.

 

On 08/10/2022 at 21:32, wyx087 said:

Rugby service with 12 supercharger and 12 other charger (total 24 compatible) hopefully means zero queuing on Sunday night. 

Gridserve have been having issues with their chargers at Rugby for the past week or so. It seems they are not keeping on top of maintenance leading to breakdowns at quite a few sites, not just Rugby. The Tesla chargers seem unaffected.

We did a 200 mile trip yesterday on a whim. Car was at 73% when we left and we got two destination charges while we did the sight seeing / walking planned and got home with 33% charge. This EV thing is not so hard. 

 

Edited 10 October, 20223 yr by Luckypants