EV real world range and cost to charge

[Lady Elanore]

@Luckypants When I retire, an EV will be a consideration (I'd still prefer hydrogen), but not all of us have a lifestyle that can accommodate a full on EV yet. I'm impressed at 7.5p/kWh @wyx087 

 

Some of my colleagues have gone full EV, but they have also stopped taking work more than 150 miles from home, unless it's a multiple day booking and is somewhere which gives them flexibility to charge at some point. You have to appreciate that days are often 12+hours long and travel to and from digs and to find food, soaks up a fair bit of time too. It was possible to charge up using the mobile generators that we use at work, but then one day, a small queue developed and the bosses said "enough", buy your own electricity  

Edited 11 October, 2022 by Lady Elanore

[wyx087]

7.5p/kWh is still available:

6+ hours with compatible car or charger: https://octopus.energy/intelligent-octopus/ A better explanation of this tariff: https://www.octopusreferral.link/octopus-energy-intelligent-tariff/

4 hours for all EV drivers: https://octopus.energy/go/

 

I'm on the 4 hour tariff, it's locked in for 1 year at 7.5p off-peak and 35p other times, similar unit cost to current price "cap/guarantee". I believe signing up now, for both tariff is 7.5p off peak and 40p other times. So I'll switch to the 6+ hour one after winter, to maximise 5p saving during dark wintery days at home.

 

My last bill, Aug-Sep, showed I averaged ~12.5p/kWh for that month thanks to shifting majority of electricity usage to cheap periods.

 

So as long as you avoid expensive rapid charging like avoiding using motorway service petrol stations, EV running cost can be extremely cheap.

[Lady Elanore]

It's worth buying  a second car that can reverse flow (back feed) your house. The car will be paid for and effectively free at the end of this winter  

[Ootohere]

It is worth buying one.  But then people have been doing that and the issue is getting one.

 

If you were wise enough to buy one or more when they were quite a bit cheaper you could be making money selling them. 

[wyx087]

1 hour ago, Lady Elanore said:

It's worth buying  a second car that can reverse flow (back feed) your house. The car will be paid for and effectively free at the end of this winter  

I have signed up for this and if chosen for this, I'll bet it installed: https://www.indra.co.uk/v2h

Don't need to buy any new car, my 2014 car works just fine.

 

Indeed, currently fastest house-improvement to get pay-back is a home battery.

[cheezemonkhai]

On 26/08/2022 at 22:38, Luckypants said:

*cough* hydro

*cough cough* pumped storage hydro 

 

We need more of both.

 

Pumped hydro, hydro and tidal barages

 

Tidal gives 4 generation periods a day (in and out twice) at very predictable times that are mapped out years ahead.

Plus if you generate in, you can always block the outflow until it's needed and use any excess generation from the inflow to power pumps for the pumped hydro.

 

If you look at cardiff bay, the barage there is a great example of somewhere that could (at least to the lay man) be easily upgraded to a tidal generation barage.

 

[wyx087]

https://youtu.be/sqj0NcWBAZ8

 

Amazing economy from Seat Mii EV, over 7 mi/kWh!

Edited 12 October, 2022 by wyx087

[lol-lol]

8 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

 

Pumped hydro, hydro and tidal barages

 

Tidal gives 4 generation periods a day (in and out twice) at very predictable times that are mapped out years ahead.

Plus if you generate in, you can always block the outflow until it's needed and use any excess generation from the inflow to power pumps for the pumped hydro.

 

If you look at cardiff bay, the barage there is a great example of somewhere that could (at least to the lay man) be easily upgraded to a tidal generation barage.

 

 

24 hours and 50 minutes for two high and two low tides.

Bristol Channel Barage could generate 10% of UK needed power.  

Spring tides up to 46 ft range, only second to Bay of Fundy in Canada.

Super impressive area and the wonder of the Severn bore on the river.

 

Wetlands Trust Slimbridge quite opposed to it as they are worried the wetlands would be compromised.  Maybe not if managed well I think. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

10 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

24 hours and 50 minutes for two high and two low tides.

Bristol Channel Barage could generate 10% of UK needed power.  

Spring tides up to 46 ft range, only second to Bay of Fundy in Canada.

Super impressive area and the wonder of the Severn bore on the river.

 

Wetlands Trust Slimbridge quite opposed to it as they are worried the wetlands would be compromised.  Maybe not if managed well I think. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they use screw turbines or something else suitable to not harm wildlife and are careful about blocking flow I don’t see how it’s any worse than Hinckley.

 

Besides they’re building anti flood barrages everywhere currently, so some control to deal with surges could be quite useful.

Edited 12 October, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[lol-lol]

9 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

If they use screw turbines or something else suitable to not harm wildlife and are careful about blocking flow I don’t see how it’s any worse than Hinckley.

 

Besides they’re building anti flood barrages everywhere currently, so some control to deal with surges could be quite useful.

 

I think Slimbridge Wild life Trust's point is that a full project of modifying the height of the tides upstream of a full barrage would effect one of the most import birds migration area in Europe.

 

If the project was just many axial turbines sitting in the flow then Slimbridge would have noting to worry about,  The project that is designed to generate many GWs by effectively damming would have an effect on the upstream nature that the WWT, which Charles 3 is patron off, would put up a huge fight against the bigger Severn barrage/damming but that would give us by far the most lecky.     

 

[Ootohere]

 

Older Tech EV's with smaller / lighter batteries for getting about efficiency.

 

& Skoda CZ or VW decided that no more Citigo iV's (sister car of e-Up!Mii electric) for the UK. 

Not that simply clever really.

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 October, 2022 by roottoot

[cheezemonkhai]

Tides are predictable… the dam aspect seems unnecessary tbh although I could potentially see a benefit for slowing the inflow/outflow at times of bad weather.

 

I mean you have to ask how that wildlife will survive if coal/gas/oil keeps getting burnt at the current rate. The tidal levels will no doubt change if this continues too.

[Luckypants]

11 hours ago, wyx087 said:

https://youtu.be/sqj0NcWBAZ8

 

Amazing economy from Seat Mii EV, over 7 mi/kWh!

Light weight for the win. We get 54mpg average out of our petrol Citigo without trying and that's in a hilly area. I think the word is out that the EV versions are super cheap to run judging by second hand prices - currently a lot more than they were RRP when bought.

[cheezemonkhai]

Yes, if they can get efficiency up to a real 5 mikes per kWh, then the fuel arguments are mute as you’re basically competitive up to £1/kWh against £2/L of petrol. Up to 7 and you’d be winning at £1/kWh vs £1.50/l for petrol.

 

Drop the weight of the car and use a smaller battery for a given range and suddenly the car is about the same price as a well spec’d ICE.

 

5 miles/kWh = 300 miles on 60kWh battery vs 80-100 currently and you could get 450 miles from today’s batteries.

 

7 miles/kWh and 300 miles is only a 42kWh battery with huge weight and battery cost savings to boot. On today’s batteries you’d be looking at 550-700 miles on a charge.

 

If they can get the efficiency up the charging worries go to be an occasional not regular thing, battery costs come down, the running costs advantages are back big time and IMHO ice is dead.

[Ootohere]

This morning & 4*oC & damp and i got 1.9 miles per kWh, and after 45 minutes charging it was 9*oC and i got 2.9 miles per kWh. 

That was 3.9 miles per kWh yesterday all day when it was 16*oC.

Short trips of just 2 miles a time stopping and then going again later. 

 

The efficiency of those cars on the video's is amazing really. the 16*oC weather is something i am used to. 

 20*oC setting as a heating temp in a car is not.

 

16-18 *oC is what i have in cars and more than that is too hot and if the weather is hot outside i might want 14*oC in the car.

 

The heated steering wheel will be on lots in the next 5 months, as will the heated seats. 

[classic]

On 13/10/2022 at 09:02, roottoot said:

 

Older Tech EV's with smaller / lighter batteries for getting about efficiency.

 

& Skoda CZ or VW decided that no more Citigo iV's (sister car of e-Up!Mii electric) for the UK. 

Not that simply clever really.

 

 

 

 

I watched that video and simply don’t recognise those levels of efficiency.

I would like to see the actual route and speeds they used on that YouTube test, it has been fixed to show the EVs in a very positive light.

Long term average of my Enyaq is 3.5 miles/kWh. A steady A and B road drive it might get 4.0 miles/kWh and the absolute best I’ve seen from it is 4.6 miles/kWh.

When I had a tdi Octavia there were people on briskoda claiming to regularly average 70+mpg when I was getting around 50mpg in reality, then I had a 1.4tsi which averaged 40 to 45mpg at best, and I read about people with a VrS getting 50+mpg.

Either I’m doing something wrong or I’m very unlucky that every car I get uses a lot of fuel/energy.

 

[Ootohere]

Yesterday on motorway at 10*oC I got 3.1 mile kWh.  Edinburgh diversion gridlock 45 minutes to do 10 miles and 4 5 miles per kWh.  Then later it was 5*oC and pouring rain and 100 miles took 2 hours and I got 2.7 miles per kWh.     5 miles per kWh is a wish and a dream. 

[Luckypants]

I agree @classic, folks seem to claim way better mpg / mkH than I get. I put it down to living in a hilly area where you never get back any near as much regen as used climbing hills. My average in the ID.4 for April-September 3.8 mile/kWh and previous winter 3.4 mile/kWh. My previous diesel car (similar to ID.4 in size) averaged 45.4mpg over the time I had it. I suspect the very good efficiency folks live in flat cities that play to EVs strengths. (I once had 4.8 mi/kWh on a 45 mile run but also had a 2.4 mile / kWh average on a run down from Hawick in a storm)

Edited 17 October, 2022 by Luckypants

[wyx087]

Temperature and speed affects EV efficiency by a LOT.  The route taken is a slow route and seems to be flowing very well. Temperature seems like perfect 15-20c for driving. Also got to remember the drivers are in some sort of "fun competition" against eachother, so they will all be driving as efficiently as possible. So I take it as a comparison rather than trying to map my own numbers to what they've achieved.

 

Online, people seems like to take the best they've ever gotten and advertise that.

Cherry picking the data, I can say my best run was 5.8 mi/kWh.   But real world lifetime data says it's 3.7 mi/kWh over last 1.5 mintes.

[Ootohere]

There is a lot of very over inflated tyres doing on on southern roads with less grippy surfaces.   Less suited to wet and cold weather.  Cars with drivers paying attention to efficient driving.     Passengers in EV,s and chatting or on the phone and driving and getting places sometimes gives different energy use, but not always worse.       In that video I would have had the cars that where dropped just tailing on to see if first lap results improved.      Winter tyres, all season tyres and pressures matter lots.   I would rather have the tyres I have in bad weather than ECO aquaplaners. / Ditch finders. 

 

 

 

[Lady Elanore]

So 3 weeks ago during a very heavy spell of rain I hit a submerged pothole, or perhaps just a deep hole and suffered a blow out (I was in my 3008 PHEV). It was around midnight and I was in the middle of nowhere, so as you can imagine it was a fun night. The sidewall suffered a pinch puncture and of course, no spare wheel these days. Anyhoo I eventually got home on the back of a low loader, grabbed a couple of hours sleep and started to ring around for a new tyre. It's an unusual size for an E-Primacy and so, after the afore mentioned 3 weeks, I still have a car abandoned on the street outside my house with a flat tyre. Nobody in Britain seems to have the requisite tyre. I've rung Michelin, Peugeot, local Peugeot dealers, Blackcircles, ATS, Eurotyres, even Kwick fit and Halfords, you name them, I've rung them. Today, Michelin claimed they have some tyres supposedly coming in to the country. Peugeot are zero help and today rang me, but hung up as I answer the phone on the 3 ring bleep!!!!! Rang them back and got an Indian call centre that was zero help. Peugeot have been less than useless. I'd probably rank Liz Truss as being more use at this point. 

 

Of course, I've been offered 'regular' tyres in the correct size, but I have a new, reasonably expensive (for me) car that came with 'alleged' correct tyres for a PHEV, so why on Gods earth would I not want to complete the set and have the same tyre put back on the car. It's a salient lesson perhaps and one exacerbated, almost certainly, by the current conditions that have been affecting the world for the last few years. But it's rather annoying to be paying for a car that I can not drive and Peugeot, who said they were all about helping their customers, have simply stuck their fingers in their ears and gone "la la la". Not a happy bunny.  I'm almost contemplating buying a full set of all season tyres as I should at least be able to get replacement in identical spec in the future. 

[wyx087]

Please excuse my in-experience. Why not just any regular tire in the correct size? They seems to all work largely similar whatever the powertrain. I've been putting bog standard cheapest branded regular tyres on my Leaf (yokohama and dunlop currently)

[Lady Elanore]

The E-Primacy tyres are allegedly designed for EVs and PHEVS etc. I believe they have a lower rolling resistance (and also less tread depth when new ) than regular summer tyres. I would expect the replacement summer tyres would have different breaking and cornering grip and so I would rather not have different characteristics across the axel. Besides, how difficult should it be to buy a tyre for your car that matches the ones that the manufacturer specified? The OE mark on my correct tyres are S1 which is something that is not on the 'regular' tyres that I have been offered and as tyres are arguably the most important part of your car I don't want to compromise my and everyone else's safety. 

[lol-lol]

10 hours ago, roottoot said:

There is a lot of very over inflated tyres doing on on southern roads with less grippy surfaces.   Less suited to wet and cold weather.  Cars with drivers paying attention to efficient driving.     Passengers in EV,s and chatting or on the phone and driving and getting places sometimes gives different energy use, but not always worse.       In that video I would have had the cars that where dropped just tailing on to see if first lap results improved.      Winter tyres, all season tyres and pressures matter lots.   I would rather have the tyres I have in bad weather than ECO aquaplaners. / Ditch finders. 

 

Always check what the garage does when it fits tyres for you or you pick up a new car.  Arkana is suppose to be 33 psi front and 31 psi rear.

Dealer put 37 psi all round according to my digital tyre pressure inflator which I feel is quite accurate ie reads same as TPM in both my newer Renaults.

 

 

Edited 17 October, 2022 by lol-lol

[Ootohere]

Close one this morning nearly running out of charge.  Full battery last night and 150 range showing.  Did 80 miles and getting 3.3 miles to 3.1 miles driving in fog.  Stopped for 30 minutes for a charge and got 16 kWh in.  Enough usually for the next 80 miles I do. That leaves enough to charge later even when colder than this morning.     Not today.  Peeing down, fog and mist.  I was down to 14 mile range with 20 miles still to go so diverted to a route where I could get on 7 kW charger if needed and went 10 mile in ECO to a single Rapid charger.   A Muppet had a Hyundai plugged in but charger not charging or cable locked 🔒 in 50 minutes ago.   So took the cable and managed to get a good quick charge to 90%.    Just letting another driver starting to charge.  The charger 6 miles further on is out of order and the one 20 miles further on again has also been off for weeks.  This is on the route to and from the Ferries to Northern Ireland.      Scotland,s Government need to get a grip.     I know the chargers and routes but visitors can easily get caught out badly.