The Official Brexit Thread - The Transition Period.

[trundlenut]

14 minutes ago, xman said:

Increased import tariffs on "protected" meat products e.g. Beef will help UK farmers through better prices at market

 

Or are you talking about EU farming subsidies which we fund anyway and gets handed out mainly to wealthy land owners in the UK, Prince Charles and Dyson to name just two.

 

Maybe the UK can concentrate on food self sufficiency instead of funding French tobacco producers and Billionaires.

 

And how does regaining control of our territorial fishing waters devastate it? 

It's where the fish goes (and particularly the things that aren't fish, such as shellfish). SPS strikes again and it is worse for fish etc. as they are even more time critical to get to market, so inspections, queues etc. are very bad.

[KenONeill]

32 minutes ago, xman said:

And how does regaining control of our territorial fishing waters devastate it?

Regaining control doesn't.

 

Relaxing controls on size of fish taken and total catch over a year possibly might.

[xman]

2 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Regaining control doesn't.

 

Relaxing controls on size of fish taken and total catch over a year possibly might.

 

So increasing catch might devastate the uk fishing industry? I am obviously missing something. I'm sure the UK is perfectly capable of managing its own fish stocks.

[trundlenut]

1 minute ago, xman said:

 

So increasing catch might devastate the uk fishing industry? I am obviously missing something. I'm sure the UK is perfectly capable of managing its own fish stocks.

It depends on where the fish go.  They are **** at map reading and terrible at remembering to renew their passports.

[KenONeill]

19 minutes ago, xman said:

 

So increasing catch might devastate the uk fishing industry? I am obviously missing something. I'm sure the UK is perfectly capable of managing its own fish stocks.

I did say might; not being a marine conservation expert (many of us, including most fishermen, aren't) I don't know for sure either way.

[KenONeill]

56 minutes ago, trundlenut said:

They are carp at map reading and terrible at remembering to renew their passports.

Clearly mistaken redaction removed!  

Edited 2 April, 2019 by KenONeill

[gadgetman]

4 hours ago, Skoda_newby said:

 

But done. I'm open to suggestions, at 12 days to go, what would be the most likely scenario from here?

I'm not going to pin my hopes on any sweet deal being done in the next few days. Let's just 'man-up' and crack on with it. The EU are prepared, and so are we. It's not the best, but it's where we are.

No we're not. 

 

Mogg might tell you we are, but experts on the TV say continually we haven't even done many of the basics for a no deal scenario. 

 

Everyone has assumed it'll all magically fix itself and a deal be done. 

4 hours ago, Skoda_newby said:

 

It'll devastate our fishing exports? Well, maybe because the EU want to help themselves to our fisheries!

Oh, but it's a reciprocal arrangement, so we can help ourselves to theirs. 512 milllion people vs 66 million. That's fair, right?

 

But can you outline in detail how the farming sector will be mostly 'killed off'? That's really strange. How?

 

 

 

Because out side of the 16 (iirc?) mile fishing laws, that's all we'll get back to protect. 

 

Most fishing is done far beyond this in international water. 

58 minutes ago, xman said:

 

So increasing catch might devastate the uk fishing industry? I am obviously missing something. I'm sure the UK is perfectly capable of managing its own fish stocks.

 

[KenONeill]

12 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

 

Because out side of the 16 (iirc?) mile fishing laws, that's all we'll get back to protect. 

 

Most fishing is done far beyond this in international water. 

I'm thinking 12 miles, but by that argument we could sail up to ~12 miles from everyone else's coasts...

 

Seriously, my concern is about over-fishing (and I honestly don't know enough to say how much quotas could be increased by, given that medium to long term policy should remain such that over-fished species continue to recover).

[Skoda_newby]

30 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

 

Most fishing is done far beyond this in international water. 

 

 

International? You mean outside EU borders? How does Brexit affect that?

[@Lee]

 

[Skoda_newby]

The song from Frozen comes to mind.....

 

[Skoda_newby]

3 hours ago, trundlenut said:

Go and read about sanitary and phytosanitary checks and also the requirement for the approval process required for non EU countries to import food of animal origin - which I believe the UK has not started to do.

 

OK, so my understanding of this is that SPS measures have been in play since 2004 (Regulation (EC) No 882/2004), which the UK adheres to. The thing is, that if the UK wants to change it's standards to be lower than the standards we currently stick to (is there a reason to do so?)  then it needs to strike an agreement with the EU, just like other food producers from around the world (bananas come to mind).

[@Lee]

Quote

Lots of dire predictions have been made in recent months about what would happen if the UK were to crash out of the EU without a Brexit deal. None is as chilling as the one issued by Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary and head of the civil service, in a letter to Theresa May’s senior ministers.

In the 14-page missive leaked to Daily Mail, Sir Mark does not pull his punches in forecasting what would happen if there were a no-deal Brexit on April 12.

Sir Mark says no deal would result in a 10 per cent rise in food prices. He says the government would come under “enormous pressure to bail out companies on the brink”. The UK would be hit by a recession and sterling’s depreciation would be “more harmful” than in 2008. It would hamper the ability of police and security services to keep Britain safe. It would lead to the reimposition of direct rule by London over Northern Ireland.
 

https://www.ft.com/content/089c9b1e-553e-11e9-91f9-b6515a54c5b1
 

 

“We’re looking at an increase in food prices, we’re looking at panic buying by consumers…”

Change UK MP Chuka Umunna warns MPs that crashing out of the EU without a deal would lead to a “far bigger” contraction in the economy than an orderly departure.

[xman]

http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/page-4552

[trundlenut]

5 minutes ago, Skoda_newby said:

 

OK, so my understanding of this is that SPS measures have been in play since 2004 (Regulation (EC) No 882/2004), which the UK adheres to. The thing is, that if the UK wants to change it's standards to be lower than the standards we currently stick to (is there a reason to do so?)  then it needs to strike an agreement with the EU, just like other food producers from around the world (bananas come to mind).

That is part of it.  The kicker is how it applies to 3rd countries.  As we will not be a member and have no deal we therefore crash out and our regulators need to reapply as competent authorities.  that means a whole lot of stuff has to happen, see here:

https://ec.europa.eu/food/safety/international_affairs/trade/non-eu-countries_en

 

the second problem is that as you rightly point out we will need to strike an agreement about this. But there is small issue of us crashing out and having no deals on anything, so this is one of the many deals we will then need to do.

 

It should be noted that Switzerland has 11 agreements with the EU covering SPS.

[domhnall]

3 hours ago, xman said:

 

So increasing catch might devastate the uk fishing industry? I am obviously missing something. I'm sure the UK is perfectly capable of managing its own fish stocks.

 

ok the vast majority of the fish caught by our boats is exported to the EU. If there is a no deal they get his with added bureaucracy and significant tariffs. Same for agricultural produce. Now do you think this will make them a) more competitive or b) less competitive? 

 

And if it is b) then do you think they will be able to survive? 

[Skoda_newby]

8 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

ok the vast majority of the fish caught by our boats is exported to the EU. If there is a no deal they get his with added bureaucracy and significant tariffs. Same for agricultural produce. Now do you think this will make them a) more competitive or b) less competitive? 

 

And if it is b) then do you think they will be able to survive? 

 

Of course, you'll just tell 516 million Europeans to stop eating fish. No problem.

[john999boy]

5 minutes ago, Skoda_newby said:

Of course, you'll just tell 516 million Europeans to stop eating fish. No problem.

I see. 

Removing the market isn't one of the better plans that I've heard lol.

[@Lee]

Wow......
Which of you quitters condones this? You sure you want to be on the same side?
 

Quote

An investigation has been launched after two ‘malicious’ devices were placed on railway tracks in a pro-Brexit sabotage attempt. Images of a crude ‘Leave Means Leave’ device are being circulated by National Rail staff on social media. They show a length of yellow wire across a railway line, along with a laminated note that reads: ‘GOVERNMENT BRETRAYAL: Leave Means Leave – We will bring this country to its knees if we don’t leave.’

 

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/02/malicious-devices-left-railway-lines-pro-brexit-sabotage-9095178/?ito=social?ito=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

 

[J.R.]

Depends which side did the alleged deed or perhaps the Russians, must be true if its on Twitter though.

 

Wonder what a non crude "leave means leave device" looks like?

[gadgetman]

2 hours ago, Skoda_newby said:

 

International? You mean outside EU borders? How does Brexit affect that?

Exporting to the EU as pointed out above. 

2 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Depends which side did the alleged deed or perhaps the Russians, must be true if its on Twitter though.

 

Wonder what a non crude "leave means leave device" looks like?

Just seen BTP discussing it on the local news, so hardly made up from Twitter 

[@Lee]

PM. No 'no deal'. A50 extension.

 

Quote

Brexit: Theresa May says UK will seek 'short extension' as she reaches out to Corbyn for new deal

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-may-corbyn-meeting-cross-party-solution-deal-extension-a8851511.html

[@Lee]

20 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Depends which side did the alleged deed or perhaps the Russians, must be true if its on Twitter though.

 

Wonder what a non crude "leave means leave device" looks like?

 

16 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

 

Just seen BTP discussing it on the local news, so hardly made up from Twitter 

Also on ITV news amongst others.........
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-04-02/police-investigating-after-pro-brexit-sabotage-attempt-on-railway-tracks/

[xman]

 

Landlocked countries in the EU will continue to have trouble catching North Atlantic fish. UK should top the EU stealing our fish, reducing the EU catch and increasing ours. The market decides the price, often it is down to quality on offer.

[@Lee]

2 minutes ago, xman said:

 

Landlocked countries in the EU will continue to have trouble catching North Atlantic fish. UK should top the EU stealing our fish, reducing the EU catch and increasing ours. The market decides the price, often it is down to quality on offer.

Which ones are 'our' fish?