A few questions from a prospective buyer

[Alex-W]

Yeah, I've heard the l this said, I've just never seen the maths behind that mileage justification.

 

To me, it seems it's linked more to journey type and length than annual mileage.  

 

Second hand petrol and diesel cars are about the same price, if not cheaper to get a diesel.   The diesel engines use far less fuel whatever the journey type, which greatly offsets the fuel price difference.  

So, whatever the mileage, a diesel had to be cheaper per mile based on purchase price and fuel.

 

However, the biggest issue is the dpf and the frequency they get replaced, plus other clogging caused by short journeys.

I get than in cities it's not sensible, however if somebody does a 20 mile each way commute 5 days a week, my understanding is that the dpf will regen ok surely?

[micro]

7 hours ago, Alex-W said:

What's the objection with diesel for that mileage?

 

I hear people saying you need to do 20k to get a diesel but for a dpf to regen you just need to do journeys that include decent length ones to let it regen.

 

Personally, I have zero plans to go into any emission zones and many many people I know have diesels, do short journeys mixed with the occasional longer ones and I've not known a single person have a dpf issue.  Of course they could all be time bombs waiting to go off, or just keeping it quiet when they do but I also can't help thinking it's not quite as bad as reading online suggests.

 

 

I found when my Octy was last doing a regen when I stopped, I plugged in OBDEleven to watch the progress and just left it idling at 1k (disabled start/stop so it'd carry on) - it carried on and finished by itself. (I couldn't drive it around at that time as i'd just been asked to park up awaiting my drive-thru order! :P)

6 hours ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

Working as an MOT tester i have found the current crop of diesels to be terrible, DPF issues are very common (in city's anyway, stop/start driving is not good for them)and the cost of fuel at about £1.40 a litre it make them uneconimical to run at less then about 15-20 thousend miles a year.

 

Where  do you live? Diesel is £1.25/l here.

[SurreyJohn]

1 hour ago, micro said:

 

I found when my Octy was last doing a regen when I stopped, I plugged in OBDEleven to watch the progress and just left it idling at 1k (disabled start/stop so it'd carry on) - it carried on and finished by itself. (I couldn't drive it around at that time as i'd just been asked to park up awaiting my drive-thru order! :P)

 

Where  do you live? Diesel is £1.25/l here.

 

It is £1.29 - £1.33 in Surrey.

(Or £1.49 if you are stupid enough to buy it at M25 services)

 

An earlier poster was also wrong to say diesel cars always use less fuel than petrol.  Doesn’t when engine first starts and is cold, or when doing active regen 

[Ju1ian1001]

South east london and yes prices are well inflated from elsewhere, thats why i went back to petrol, think they are inflated because of Ultra Low Emissions Zone in 2021.

[logiclee]

If you go for a DQ200 dry clutch DSG you should ensure you are covered by a very good warranty for the entire period of your ownership.

[Llwyngwernog]

Lets face it the diesel's days are numbered ....I live in France for six months of the year and diesels are likely to be forbidden from many cities in the very near future....and I guess UK will follow suit.

I have just taken delivery of a new non DSG Octavia SEL with the much maligned 1.5 TSI engine .It is absolutely great with no power delivery problems whatsoever.

The LED lights and auto dipping are fabulous .My wife loves it ...enough said !

We had a visit in the summer from an ex colleague who is attempting to regain his youth with a new trophy wife and new very expensive Porsche with a very fancy gearbox .

He was demonstrating its prowess to anther impressionable neighbour when it apparently tried to select two gears at once and ground to a shuddering halt , eventually to return to the UK on a trailer.It was fixed , under warranty , but would have cost mega bucks otherwise.

He is now driving a much nicer older Porsche with a normal gearbox.

So my advice , for you to ignore , of course , and for many on this forum to rubbish ( this man is talking out of the back of his neck etc ) is to avoid diesels and automatics .

 

 

 

 

Lets face it the diesel's days are numbered ....I live in France for six months of the year and diesels are likely to be forbidden from many cities in the very near future....and I guess UK will follow suit.

I have just taken delivery of a new non DSG Octavia SEL with the much maligned 1.5 TSI engine .It is absolutely great with no power delivery problems whatsoever.

The LED lights and auto dipping are fabulous .My wife loves it ...enough said !

We had a visit in the summer from an ex colleague who is attempting to regain his youth with a new trophy wife and new very expensive Porsche with a very fancy gearbox .

He was demonstrating its prowess to anther impressionable neighbour when it apparently tried to select two gears at once and ground to a shuddering halt , eventually to return to the UK on a trailer.It was fixed , under warranty , but would have cost mega bucks otherwise.

He is now driving a much nicer older Porsche with a normal gearbox.

So my advice , for you to ignore , of course , and for many on this forum to rubbish ( this man is talking out of the back of his neck etc ) is to avoid diesels and automatics .

 

 

 

 

Lets face it the diesel's days are numbered ....I live in France for six months of the year and diesels are likely to be forbidden from many cities in the very near future....and I guess UK will follow suit.

I have just taken delivery of a new non DSG Octavia SEL with the much maligned 1.5 TSI engine .It is absolutely great with no power delivery problems whatsoever.

The LED lights and auto dipping are fabulous .My wife loves it ...enough said !

We had a visit in the summer from an ex colleague who is attempting to regain his youth with a new trophy wife and new very expensive Porsche with a very fancy gearbox .

He was demonstrating its prowess to anther impressionable neighbour when it apparently tried to select two gears at once and ground to a shuddering halt , eventually to return to the UK on a trailer.It was fixed , under warranty , but would have cost mega bucks otherwise.

He is now driving a much nicer older Porsche with a normal gearbox.

So my advice , for you to ignore , of course , and for many on this forum to rubbish ( this man is talking out of the back of his neck etc ) is to avoid diesels and automatics .

Regards

 

 

 

Lets face it the diesel's days are numbered ....I live in France for six months of the year and diesels are likely to be forbidden from many cities in the very near future....and I guess UK will follow suit.

I have just taken delivery of a new non DSG Octavia SEL with the much maligned 1.5 TSI engine .It is absolutely great with no power delivery problems whatsoever.

The LED lights and auto dipping are fabulous .My wife loves it ...enough said !

We had a visit in the summer from an ex colleague who is attempting to regain his youth with a new trophy wife and new very expensive Porsche with a very fancy gearbox .

He was demonstrating its prowess to anther impressionable neighbour when it apparently tried to select two gears at once and ground to a shuddering halt , eventually to return to the UK on a trailer.It was fixed , under warranty , but would have cost mega bucks otherwise.

He is now driving a much nicer older Porsche with a normal gearbox.

So my advice , for you to ignore , of course , and for many on this forum to rubbish ( this man is talking out of the back of his neck etc ) is to avoid diesels and automatics .

Regards

 

 

 

Lets face it the diesel's days are numbered ....I live in France for six months of the year and diesels are likely to be forbidden from many cities in the very near future....and I guess UK will follow suit.

I have just taken delivery of a new non DSG Octavia SEL with the much maligned 1.5 TSI engine .It is absolutely great with no power delivery problems whatsoever.

The LED lights and auto dipping are fabulous .My wife loves it ...enough said !

We had a visit in the summer from an ex colleague who is attempting to regain his youth with a new trophy wife and new very expensive Porsche with a very fancy gearbox .

He was demonstrating its prowess to anther impressionable neighbour when it apparently tried to select two gears at once and ground to a shuddering halt , eventually to return to the UK on a trailer.It was fixed , under warranty , but would have cost mega bucks otherwise.

He is now driving a much nicer older Porsche with a normal gearbox.

So my advice , for you to ignore , of course , and for many on this forum to rubbish ( this man is talking out of the back of his neck etc ) is to avoid diesels and automatics .

Regards

 

 

 

Lets face it the diesel's days are numbered ....I live in France for six months of the year and diesels are likely to be forbidden from many cities in the very near future....and I guess UK will follow suit.

I have just taken delivery of a new non DSG Octavia SEL with the much maligned 1.5 TSI engine .It is absolutely great with no power delivery problems whatsoever.

The LED lights and auto dipping are fabulous .My wife loves it ...enough said !

We had a visit in the summer from an ex colleague who is attempting to regain his youth with a new trophy wife and new very expensive Porsche with a very fancy gearbox .

He was demonstrating its prowess to anther impressionable neighbour when it apparently tried to select two gears at once and ground to a shuddering halt , eventually to return to the UK on a trailer.It was fixed , under warranty , but would have cost mega bucks otherwise.

He is now driving a much nicer older Porsche with a normal gearbox.

So my advice , for you to ignore , of course , and for many on this forum to rubbish ( this man is talking out of the back of his neck etc ) is to avoid diesels and automatics .

Regards

 

 

 

[Llwyngwernog]

Lets face it the diesel's days are numbered ....I live in France for six months of the year and diesels are likely to be forbidden from many cities in the very near future....and I guess UK will follow suit.

I have just taken delivery of a new non DSG Octavia SEL with the much maligned 1.5 TSI engine .It is absolutely great with no power delivery problems whatsoever.

The LED lights and auto dipping are fabulous .My wife loves it ...enough said !

We had a visit in the summer from an ex colleague who is attempting to regain his youth with a new trophy wife and new very expensive Porsche with a very fancy gearbox .

He was demonstrating its prowess to anther impressionable neighbour when it apparently tried to select two gears at once and ground to a shuddering halt , eventually to return to the UK on a trailer.It was fixed , under warranty , but would have cost mega bucks otherwise.

He is now driving a much nicer older Porsche with a normal gearbox.

So my advice , for you to ignore , of course , and for many on this forum to rubbish ( this man is talking out of the back of his neck etc ) is to avoid diesels and automatics .

Regards

 

 

 

[micro]

12 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

Lets face it the diesel's days are numbered ....I live in France for six months of the year and diesels are likely to be forbidden from many cities in the very near future....and I guess UK will follow suit.

I have just taken delivery of a new non DSG Octavia SEL with the much maligned 1.5 TSI engine .It is absolutely great with no power delivery problems whatsoever.

The LED lights and auto dipping are fabulous .My wife loves it ...enough said !

We had a visit in the summer from an ex colleague who is attempting to regain his youth with a new trophy wife and new very expensive Porsche with a very fancy gearbox .

He was demonstrating its prowess to anther impressionable neighbour when it apparently tried to select two gears at once and ground to a shuddering halt , eventually to return to the UK on a trailer.It was fixed , under warranty , but would have cost mega bucks otherwise.

He is now driving a much nicer older Porsche with a normal gearbox.

So my advice , for you to ignore , of course , and for many on this forum to rubbish ( this man is talking out of the back of his neck etc ) is to avoid diesels and automatics .

Regards

 

The problem is that some people here only have automatic entitlement on their driving licence. My sister is one of those - she had to learn in an automatic due to not being able to operate a clutch. 

 

My diesel vehicle meets the current ULEZ requirements for clean air - are they looking to tighten down the requirements even more - if so, where's it say this?

[MarkyG82]

21 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

Lets face it the diesel's days are numbered ....I live in France for six ..................... is to avoid diesels and automatics .

Regards

 

 

 

 

You feel so strongly about it you had to say it seven times! 😋

 

I have a diesel dsg and really enjoy it. Haven't taken a vehicle into London for a number of years and when the ulez rules reach Basingstoke the car will likely be close to going anyway.

[silver1011]

20 hours ago, Jetpac said:

Finding an 1.4 auto SEL seems like it may be a challenge! Fingers crossed!

 

🙄

 

On 12/10/2019 at 18:29, silver1011 said:

What is your annual mileage?

 

Anything less than 20,000 miles a year and I'd be looking for a 1.4 TSI. An absolute peach of an engine, and pretty bulletproof too...

 

 

 

[Jetpac]

1 minute ago, silver1011 said:

 

🙄

 

 

 

AHH, see I am looking at an estate.

[silver1011]

Only one 66 plate on Autotrader, quite a rare spec, most of the latter ones are the 1.5 TSI.

 

You're probably going to have to up your budget a smidge...

 

[Llwyngwernog]

Apologies for multiple posting...don't know how this occurred .

[pist0nbr0ke]

10 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

Apologies for multiple posting...don't know how this occurred .

 

10 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

Apologies for multiple posting...don't know how this occurred .

 

10 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

Apologies for multiple posting...don't know how this occurred .

 

10 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

Apologies for multiple posting...don't know how this occurred .

 

10 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

Apologies for multiple posting...don't know how this occurred .

 

10 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

Apologies for multiple posting...don't know how this occurred .

 

10 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

Apologies for multiple posting...don't know how this occurred .

 

No worries

 

No worries

 

No worries

 

No worries

 

No worries

 

No worries

 

No worries

 

By the way, some of the very latest diesels are cleaner than petrols both in terms of CO2 and NOX...

[Llwyngwernog]

I'm sure you are correct about emissions ...  but those who legislate about such matters are often influenced by other factors.

 

[pist0nbr0ke]

16 minutes ago, Llwyngwernog said:

I'm sure you are correct about emissions ...  but those who legislate about such matters are often influenced by other factors.

 

 

Exactly, and one reason why I have just changed from diesel to petrol 😁

 

The latest S4 and S5's are diesels, and are probably lovely, but still get stung by higher company car tax than an equivalent petrol, it's daft. 

 

 

[Llwyngwernog]

I have just parted with a 2017 Yeti 4x4 with Euro 6 engine .  Great car and 26000 trouble free miles .

No longer need 4x4 and given the way diesels are being maligned now was the time to get rid. 

Hysteria, misinformation and something called woke seem to be running the country rather than reason and objectivity.

Regards

 

[NikTheGeek]

13 hours ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

Working as an MOT tester i have found the current crop of diesels to be terrible, DPF issues are very common (in city's anyway, stop/start driving is not good for them)and the cost of fuel at about £1.40 a litre it make them uneconimical to run at less then about 15-20 thousend miles a year.

 

It doesn't matter if you do 5,000 miles a year, a diesel can still be the better car for you depending on the type of miles you do and the cost difference between a s/h petrol and a s/h diesel of the same mileage and spec. Lots of short journeys or city journeys and a petrol is better for you. Driving on the motorway or up and down hills in the country, a diesel is better. A diesel might cost more, but will still hold its residual value slightly more on re-sale. Typically on a new car, doing 10,000 miles a year, it might take 4-5 years before you start saving on a diesel, but buying second hand, that is much less.

 

I do 10k a year. Mostly on A roads, hills or motorways and I plan on running it in to the ground (DQ200 aside). My previous car was LPG and I was looking to buy the 1.4 and converted it to LPG, except the particular car I found was well priced and much cheaper than the equivilant petrol converted to LPG so it was a better buy. I don't need to do any miles per year to make it worth it as it was already cheaper. Sure, running LPG would be cheaper still, but the £2k I've saved can go towards diesel or a DPF

[Jetpac]

6 minutes ago, NikTheGeek said:

 

It doesn't matter if you do 5,000 miles a year, a diesel can still be the better car for you depending on the type of miles you do and the cost difference between a s/h petrol and a s/h diesel of the same mileage and spec. Lots of short journeys or city journeys and a petrol is better for you. Driving on the motorway or up and down hills in the country, a diesel is better. A diesel might cost more, but will still hold its residual value slightly more on re-sale. Typically on a new car, doing 10,000 miles a year, it might take 4-5 years before you start saving on a diesel, but buying second hand, that is much less.

 

I do 10k a year. Mostly on A roads, hills or motorways and I plan on running it in to the ground (DQ200 aside). My previous car was LPG and I was looking to buy the 1.4 and converted it to LPG, except the particular car I found was well priced and much cheaper than the equivilant petrol converted to LPG so it was a better buy. I don't need to do any miles per year to make it worth it as it was already cheaper. Sure, running LPG would be cheaper still, but the £2k I've saved can go towards diesel or a DPF

 

I live out in the suburbs and mainly drive A roads. About a 13 mile/ commute each way.

 

I'm just concerned about the state of diesels moving forward (as we plan on keeping till it dies). That and issues regarding engine complexity and dpf (we have had issues with our current Peugeot 308 with injectors that has cost a pretty penny)

 

That being said it's looking like it will be tricky to get a FL 1.4 estate in an SEL spec.. they don't seem very common. However there is a 2017 1.6 diesel locally in the spec we are after. Which is making me question stuff.

[micro]

1 hour ago, Jetpac said:

 

I live out in the suburbs and mainly drive A roads. About a 13 mile/ commute each way.

 

I'm just concerned about the state of diesels moving forward (as we plan on keeping till it dies). That and issues regarding engine complexity and dpf (we have had issues with our current Peugeot 308 with injectors that has cost a pretty penny)

 

That being said it's looking like it will be tricky to get a FL 1.4 estate in an SEL spec.. they don't seem very common. However there is a 2017 1.6 diesel locally in the spec we are after. Which is making me question stuff.

If it's any consolation I have just bought my diesel Octy, plan to keep for about 5 years but will see closer to that time whether it is worth selling or keeping! I don't buy into the diesel fiasco.

[Alex-W]

Don't get me wrong, i bought a petrol car as I prefer it and I only do 5k or so a year, so don't really care about the economy that much.

 

BUT I think people are being scared away from diesels.

The market will still be flooded by them as most are still very good for company car tax and people on PCP don't really care about dpf issues as it's unlikely to hit them during their ownership.

 

As a result, diesels are becoming quite a bargain second hand.  Looking on auto trader at the vrs (I appreciate this may not be the needed spec) the are about 3x as many diesels and they are at better prices.

 

How much is a Octavia dpf?  This is the worst case scenario.  

If you were to get 50mpg vs 35mpg you'd save ~ £400 a year, so depending on cost it can be worth the risk.

 

For the record, we bought our (my wife's) 61 Mazda diesel on 38k, at 4.5 years old.

We have done about 6k a year after that.  It's now on 65k and I tested it on autocom the other week....  Dpf is performing correctly.

Sure I may have to replace it at 80-90k, but we're saving money on fuel.  Swings and roundabouts. 

At the time there was nothing petrol, decent power and economical that was a decent size and anywhere near the same spec for the money we paid.  We'd have had to throw many thousands more at it which made no sense.

 

 

[logiclee]

8 hours ago, NikTheGeek said:

 

I A diesel might cost more, but will still hold its residual value slightly more on re-sale.

 

Not true now for most models.

 

 

[classic]

22 hours ago, Alex-W said:

Yeah, I've heard the l this said, I've just never seen the maths behind that mileage justification.

 

To me, it seems it's linked more to journey type and length than annual mileage.  

 

Second hand petrol and diesel cars are about the same price, if not cheaper to get a diesel.   The diesel engines use far less fuel whatever the journey type, which greatly offsets the fuel price difference.  

So, whatever the mileage, a diesel had to be cheaper per mile based on purchase price and fuel.

 

However, the biggest issue is the dpf and the frequency they get replaced, plus other clogging caused by short journeys.

I get than in cities it's not sensible, however if somebody does a 20 mile each way commute 5 days a week, my understanding is that the dpf will regen ok surely?

 

It’s a bit like asking whether people like Marmite or not, or Leave or Remain 🤐

 

Although I love Diesel engines and used to work on them professionally, I can only tell you my opinion, for the Octavia, which is Petrol.

 

You will get a second hand Diesel for less than a petrol. For example, I could have got (from the Skoda dealer network) a 65 plate SE L Octavia tdi for around a grand less than I paid for my 64 plate 1.4 SE 2 years ago.

Ive had the diesel version and my opinion is they are great engines but are now over complicated. The dpf/turbo/cooling system is way too complex to try and achieve the efficiency and power they need to meet regulations whilst still being drivable. 

The regens will reduce the overall mpg, they literally burn Diesel, it’s such a Heath Robinson, ridiculous system to use on an engine to then claim is low emissions.

 

I do 15 to 20k miles a year with a 1.4 tsi, which averages 41mpg. I could get more but that’s the real world average, and I don’t try and drive particularly economically. It’s a really quiet, smooth engine,  and I actually like driving it. No way will I buy another Diesel car.

 

Jetpac  - Way up the costs, pros, cons etc but the ultimate choice is yours.

 

 

Edited 14 October, 2019 by classic

[NikTheGeek]

To counter my earlier statement about diesels holding their second hand value *slightly* better than petrols, if that isn't true (and actually, thinking about it, my diesel was the cheaper option), then diesels represent even better value as a second-hand purchases. Assuming you are doing the right type of driving.

 

I do wish they would make Skodas on LPG straight out of the factory like they do in some EU countries though. That would be even cheaper and supported by warranties!

 

Nick

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, NikTheGeek said:

To counter my earlier statement about diesels holding their second hand value *slightly* better than petrols, if that isn't true (and actually, thinking about it, my diesel was the cheaper option), then diesels represent even better value as a second-hand purchases. Assuming you are doing the right type of driving.

 

I do wish they would make Skodas on LPG straight out of the factory like they do in some EU countries though. That would be even cheaper and supported by warranties!

 

Nick

 

Reading this thread, I think your replies are the most sensible of all.

 

Forget mileage and diesel negativity. If you keep the car until it dies the cost factor is based on how much the car costs to buy. As for diesel being dead and towns banning them...  oh dear - fake news.  If you look at vehicles in the class above, the vast majority of them are diesel. The vast majority of new car sales in that class are diesel too. You wont find many petrol large estates and even less petrol large SUV's. - the vast majority are diesel. We're not about to ban most cars!  Where diesel sales have plummeted are in smaller town city cars - for good reason.

 

Things to consider:

 

1: Regardless of how many miles you cover, if you do lots of stop/start driving then you run a higher risk of experiencing problems with modern diesel, and it's a costly repair.

2: If you're buying a 2nd hand car with 15k miles on the clock you have no idea how the previous driver used the car. Again that would put me off a modern diesel. A mis-used petrol would be a much better long-term prospect than a mis-used modern deisel, that's for sure.

3: The DQ200 DSG is used throughout VAG empire in both petrol and diesel engines 1.6 and under. I don't know any auto currently on sale that has a worse reputation.

 

Nobody can predict how reliable their purchase will prove to be but going on reputation, no matter how well the car was specified, if I were looking to keep the car long-term I'd personally avoid a 1.4/1.5tsi and 1.6tdi engine unless of course the car is kept under warranty which covers the DSG. If you were looking at automatic VAG products, I'd suggest you I'd look at the DQ250 which is found in larger engines, otherwise look elsewhere. The 1.4tsi manual is a peach of an engine with great mileage and sufficient perforance but that's not what you're after.

 

One last piece of advice - if you're out in the country and it's poor road surfaces then defo take the car on a test drive. If there's one thing I absolutely hate about my car is road noise, there's a defo lack of sound insulation on the Octavia.