Over the past few days I've had a couple of instances of understeer which have taken me by surprise.

Both of them on roundabouts - I've gone in "hottish" although not like an idiot and nothing I haven't done before, on these very roundabouts. I've suddenly had to fight with things and get the car pointing in the direction I want it to go.

 

Car was serviced last week - however there is nothing to indicate they might have done anything. Checked the tyre pressures today, I run at around 40psi all around - they were all within tolerance.

Original P Zero's all around (I'm assuming - I bought car at 1yr old), 22k miles - NSF is on around 3.5mm, strangely the OSF is on 4.5mm (OSR on 5.5mm and NSR on 5.0mm)

 

I've not experienced understeer from the car before, and I have thrown it around - I'm just being a little more careful at the moment. Is this just the P Zero's and the current bad weather combination?

Or, anything else to check?

40psi quite alot for winter - i find that salt on cold roads is much slippier than rain on cold roads - sometimes a good downpour is needed to wash off recent saltings. highly recommend michelin ps4 for 18" wheels, although i've just put on my winter continental contisports and they are great when temps are below 8 degrees or so

7 hours ago, Stoofa said:

Is this just the P Zero's and the current bad weather combination?

My previous car came with PZeros from the factory and I had the same experience of very poor grip when wet or cold (or both) and they weren't good in the dry either. So I was very glad that they only lasted 9000 miles and I could fit some Michelin PS3s (the forerunner to the PS4) which were like chalk and cheese...

It’s not strange that the near side front is more worn than the offside because this is the tyre that you are working hard if you push hard through roundabouts.

3.5 mm is just about prudent renew level anyway,I would treat yourself to 2 new front tyres.

54 minutes ago, *JP* said:

3.5 mm is just about prudent renew level anyway

 

Michelin themselves don't advocate changing at 3mm. A tyre company whose interest is to sell lots of tyres...

 

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Should-we-change-tyres-at-3mm.htm

 

If the tyres aren't performing as well as hoped then change, but applying an arbitrary tread depth amount well above legal limit as being the point for changing seems odd. Especially at 3.5mm when the tyre still has around 40% of its original tread left.

Edited 24 November, 20196 yr by ahenners

Most likely a combination of the tread getting lower, the colder weather and traffic grease on the road. My Audi  (150bhp) 1.4TFSI A3  gets very skittish this time of year so yesterday swapped over to my winter tyres. Car suddenly feels much safer, and with no wheel-spin.

 

Xlray

1 hour ago, ahenners said:

 

Michelin themselves don't advocate changing at 3mm. A tyre company whose interest is to sell lots of tyres...

 

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Should-we-change-tyres-at-3mm.htm

 

If the tyres aren't performing as well as hoped then change, but applying an arbitrary tread depth amount well above legal limit as being the point for changing seems odd. Especially at 3.5mm when the tyre still has around 40% of its original tread left.

If I’m reading it right then it says that in the dry a tyre with low but barely legal tread will perform OK. (I think we all know that.)

What it doesn’t make clear is whether a tyre at 3mm or below performs worse IN THE WET than a tyre with more tread,which is surely what should concern us in view of recent weather here and probably more to come over the next months.

...and company public relation B/S comes in many subtle forms,would you expect Michelin,maker of expensive and long lasting tyres,to say that the wet performance of their tyres drops off before the legal limit is reached?

If so people might conclude that they would be just as well off with a cheaper tyre

10 hours ago, encephalopathy said:

40psi quite alot for winter - i find that salt on cold roads is much slippier than rain on cold roads - sometimes a good downpour is needed to wash off recent saltings. highly recommend michelin ps4 for 18" wheels, although i've just put on my winter continental contisports and they are great when temps are below 8 degrees or so

 

These are 19" - so I think 40psi is about on the money - I think you run 18" on around 32psi?

It'll either be Michelin PS4 or Goodyear F1's when I come to replace - I used the Goodyear's on my old Mk2.5 and really did like the grip.

12 minutes ago, Stoofa said:

 

These are 19" - so I think 40psi is about on the money - I think you run 18" on around 32psi?

It'll either be Michelin PS4 or Goodyear F1's when I come to replace - I used the Goodyear's on my old Mk2.5 and really did like the grip.

I use 18" alloys with P Zero 225/40 set at 32psi (2.4bar) during winter and 19" alloys in summer with 235/35 PS4S set at 38psi (2.7bar).

I always have and always will advise a tyre at 3mm tread depth when i carry out MOT's, Grip and therefore safety does drop off a huge amount in wet and cold weather at 3mm. plus at 3mm you have 1.4mm of legal tread remaining so it lets my customers know the tyres will need to be replaced before next MOT, also tyre rubber rubber tends to harden and crack the longer it's on a vehicle which also reduces grip at anytime.

 

Best tyre i found for all round driving is Goodyear performance effeicent grips, long lasting and consistant grip levels right down to 3mm.

It's getting colder, the summer tyre performance will drop.

You either need to drive with that in consideration or get some all seasons.

 

I've presently got 2 PS4s on the front of mine with 2.5mm tread, not a big issue and it's ok in the rain tbh.  Else I guess the limit would be higher.

I saw an article recently about how tyre reviews are based on be tyres, while one company is trying to make them go down to the limit as that's what is actually relevant.

 

There's also an argument that if you change your tyres too early you're just adding to the environmental impact.

 

I'm quite impressed with the PS4s, so I'll likely just get another set, but at the moment I might get another 6 months out of them....  

Forecast tomorrow is 10-13C so better for summer tyres than winters. You're brave driving with 2.5mm on the front of a Vrs unless your known as Miss Daisy. Dealer advised changing the rear tyres on the wife's Karoq at 4.2mm but we all know they are money grabbing chancers. They even quoted me £212 each for new Michelin Primacy 215/50R18. When they are replaced it will cost a lot less than £424 for the new tyres.

40 PSI is correct  for the 19"  wheels.  Not sure what ' in hottish but not silly speeds" means for the UK, other than legal speeds.  Even on summer tyres, 70Mph up to a dual carriageway roundabout, with adequate braking distance in relation to the prevailing conditions, shouldn't cause any heart-stopping  moments, especially when the brakes, if they're the same as my 245 PP, are pretty good.  Common sense says that cold damp tarmac requires respect....something which not all todays' cossetted drivers, flush with airbags and driver aids, do not possess. 

1 hour ago, shyVRS245 said:

You're brave driving with 2.5mm on the front of a Vrs unless your known as Miss Daisy. 

 

Tbh usually I'd have changed them by now but I'm pleasantly surprised as to how well they're coping and my present needs don't put them under much strain.

 

In reality they'll get changed before Christmas I suspect.

 

It's the first time for years I've got even wear though, I usually end up with inner wear on my Honda, forcing me to get new tyres when a lot of it is still at 4mm.  These are even 2.5mm so seems a shame to ditch them early!

 

 

Edited 24 November, 20196 yr by Alex-W

Mine car had P zeros all round 255/40/20 with 20k on and I found them awful.  I got an irreparable puncture 2 weeks ago so had 2 swapped out for Rainsport 3's and will do the other 2 in a week or 2 when i have the funds.

I've said it once and I'll say it again  - it's why I moved to 235/35 Michelin PS4 S's all round. 

I have a 245 challenge, delivered just a few weeks ago, with 19’s and Pirelli’s. Over the last week with sub 5 degree temps it’s been like driving on ice even with new tyres. Drove in to work this morning (12 degrees) and it was like a different car. Think they just don’t work in cold conditions. I will have to burn through the Pirelli’s before next winter 😉.

6 minutes ago, Bugginbob said:

I have a 245 challenge, delivered just a few weeks ago, with 19’s and Pirelli’s. Over the last week with sub 5 degree temps it’s been like driving on ice even with new tyres. Drove in to work this morning (12 degrees) and it was like a different car. Think they just don’t work in cold conditions. I will have to burn through the Pirelli’s before next winter 😉.

Have you checked your tyre pressures since you collected the car. Over inflation can make the Pirelli's lose grip quickly in cold temperatures. I found 38psi or 2.7bar was optimum in winter. My current P Zero's are 225/40R18 and are set to 32psi or 2.4bar which helps in colder conditions making the tyre grip better.

19 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Have you checked your tyre pressures since you collected the car. Over inflation can make the Pirelli's lose grip quickly in cold temperatures. I found 38psi or 2.7bar was optimum in winter. My current P Zero's are 225/40R18 and are set to 32psi or 2.4bar which helps in colder conditions making the tyre grip better.

Yep pressures checked. Running them at 38 for now. I check them every week

I do find it funny that I recently started a thread out of interest (in the tyres section) about whether people run All Seasons, Summers or Winter tyres in the winter.  The overwhelming opinion was that people should not run summer tyres in the winter and most people were running all seasons.

This seemed to be only a small percentage of people with a vRS though from what I could tell.

 

However, looking at the comments above and casual comments in some other threads, even when people are running different tyres in the winter, they're still summer tyres, just probably better wet tyres, like the rainsports or a Pilot Sport 4 compared to a P Zero, and that's on (including far above std power) vRS models.

 

Not that I'm in disagreement, just an observation.  It certainly sounds like the P Zero is pretty terrible compared to the Pilot Sports and I suspect that many people who have lower power models had their cars delivered with much harder, economy/wear biased tyres, rather than the softer ones, so maybe had much worse experiences with them.

 

 

@Alex-W

Simples really, location location locations all over the place and different strokes for different folks.

Wet wet wet were not just no.1in the charts for a long time, it describes roads often in some places at any time or season of the year

or just damp / slick / slippy.

 

Lower powered really has little to do with things, you are not using a raging 230ps all the time just driving about at 60-70 mph.

Edited 25 November, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

5 minutes ago, Alex-W said:

I do find it funny that I recently started a thread out of interest (in the tyres section) about whether people run All Seasons, Summers or Winter tyres in the winter.  The overwhelming opinion was that people should not run summer tyres in the winter and most people were running all seasons.

This seemed to be only a small percentage of people with a vRS though from what I could tell.

 

However, looking at the comments above and casual comments in some other threads, even when people are running different tyres in the winter, they're still summer tyres, just probably better wet tyres, like the rainsports or a Pilot Sport 4 compared to a P Zero, and that's on (including far above std power) vRS models.

 

Not that I'm in disagreement, just an observation.  It certainly sounds like the P Zero is pretty terrible compared to the Pilot Sports and I suspect that many people who have lower power models had their cars delivered with much harder, economy/wear biased tyres, rather than the softer ones, so maybe had much worse experiences with them.

 

 

 

Some tyres suit some cars better than others - I don't think P Zeros are necessarily a bad tyre at all, but on my A6 i didnt rate them and the Uniroyal seems far better even though currently only on the rear.  You can run summer tyres in winter, i did for years and years. however, a winter tyre is better when you get the snow / ice/ freezing weather.  There's enough vids online to show how much quicker 2 identical cars stop from the same speed (one with summers & one with winters) and you get better traction and control. 

 

The ADAC tests are worth looking at as summer winter tyres are very bad indeed!

23 hours ago, Roottootemoot said:

@Alex-W

Simples really, location location locations all over the place and different strokes for different folks.

Wet wet wet were not just no.1in the charts for a long time, it describes roads often in some places at any time or season of the year

or just damp / slick / slippy.

 

Lower powered really has little to do with things, you are not using a raging 230ps all the time just driving about at 60-70 mph.

 

Yes but 16" wheels come with Michelin Energy tyres or equivalent.  VRS models have more specialist tyres probably dictated by wheel size and status rather than necessary for the actual performance.

As above, I think there's a certain element of bad experience being down to very hard tyres being used as a summer tyre. 

 

I once had Pirelli P6000s.  They were absolutely terrible as soon as it got slightly colder or damp.  Totally different kettle of fish to a softer tyre and I since that experience I've always gone for softer tyres, with the thought that 10k miles on the front wheels is good going.

 

Most people are never going to fit something like a Pilot Sport 4 to something like a 1.6TDi.  It's more than it needs, it's above oem spec, it's not going to last as long etc.  And I get that people would switch to something like a cross climate too, the summer performance will be the same as OEM, with the winter performance dramatically increased.  

 

With the VRS, that same switch is a downgrade in summer and I suspect slightly less of a step up in the winter due to the softer nature of the normal tyres.

 

And yes, it'll depend on location.  I dare say if I was located in Scotland I would have 2 sets of tyres tbh.

I've noticed the standard Michelin Energy tyres struggle (even with only a 1.0!!!) when damp and cold.  Hoping for improvement when I fit Cross Climates this weekend.