waiting for news

Sorry about the delay !

We got the knocking sound fixed, but then got a new problem instead.

One morning, a few days after making new threads for the spark plug, there was ethylenglychol among engine oil !!!

That was enough for me this time. I made a decision to stop "fixing" the engine and leave the issue to next spring. It is very healthy to walk and use bicycle instead of car.

The original engine swap plan starts in February 2020. I shall tell later, how it goes. But right now the car is standing in my yard and waiting for the spring.

If somebody wants to try to quess, what made the glychol to leak among the oil, feel free to comment, but as the mileage was already 300Mm and I got another engine with 160Mm with costs only 150€, I shall try it.

Happy New Year 2020 to everybody!

JussiG from Finland 🐻🐻🐻🐿️🐿️🐿️

 

35 minutes ago, JussiG7 said:

there was ethylenglychol among engine oil

oil way to water way head gasket failure springs to mind.

Thanks about the comment!

The history of the whole issue  tells, that almost in the beginning we opened the cylinder head and replaced both the bolts and the gasket. And tightened the bolts with Haynes order and recommended torque.

And before the leak, the engine heat never reached even 100 C degrees. So, the injured gasket is not very probable. I´d rather say, the original fault and the new fault are related.

Forgot to mention: also bubbles in expansion tank , so: obviously leak from cylinder to coolant fluid and from coolant to oil. It is even possible that a little crack in engine has caused the spark plug phenomenon. And fixing spark plug thread may have made that crack bigger. Difficult to know. But I think this engine has endured over 20 years, which is good!

 

Edited 4 January, 20206 yr by JussiG7

Hi,

 

The Felicia 1.3 engine is sort of specific as it's cylinder walls are not integrated into the engine block.

Instead it has cylinder sleeves that are a separate part.

In an engine with high mileage before you put a new gasket and a refreshed cylinder head

you must measure that those cylinder sleeves seat at the correct level above the top of the engine block plane.

From what I remember this is described in Haynes manual.

The cylinder sleeves seating level can be tweaked using special copper shims that are placed under the cylinder sleeve inside the engine block.

There are different thicknesses available of those.

If they are faulty, or not tight enough they will leak coolant into the crankcase.

 

At that point it's also a good idea to put new piston rings in, and perhaps new cylinder sleeves if the old ones are shiny and polished inside (they should have so called honing marks for better lubrication), or have some dents or steps.

 

At that point you can also check and if needed replace all of the crank bearings.

With high mileage new nominal once could potentially fit, and mitigate the need to grind the crank.

Edited 8 January, 20206 yr by Mariosti

2 hours ago, Mariosti said:

Instead it has cylinder sleeves that are a separate part.

They're normally called "cylinder liners" in English. That's about the only comment I have though is to teach you an uncommon English technical term.

7 hours ago, KenONeill said:

They're normally called "cylinder liners" in English. That's about the only comment I have though is to teach you an uncommon English technical term.

Hi,

 

I'm quite certain that both terms are correct.

Explanation article

 

Edited 8 January, 20206 yr by Mariosti
Link changed to correct tag

Hi! Thanks about new ideas!

 

Though the analyze of the leak´s reason may be too late now, it is always good to learn new things! Actually the basics is not  a new thing. We knew that we were dealing with so called "wet tube" engine (so those free liner engines are called here in Finland), and were aware about the dangers as opening the cylinder head. That means, we knew that those liners might move if we wouldn`t handle them with care. But we did not understand that they might become lower in use! I saw an illustration about measuring liner heads (attached further), but did not  understand that the distance should be measured, if the liners are left untouched. So, it may be a reason for a leak, too.

 

But because I am not going to rebuild that old engine, at least now, I shall leave those copper shims, piston rings etc. uninstalled and just try to service the newer engine with brand new bearings to crankshaft, new seals to both ends of c-shaft and maybe new OEM- timing chain etc.

 

But thanks about the comment, anyway! It may explain the leak that seemed to begin after opening the head and the bottom. Must keep in mind!

 

New year, new tricks  Jussi G

I haven't change the copper shims under the cylinder liners on any engine I had to replace the head gasket. The reason is obvious. Copper shims don't get squashed compared to head gasket material when building the engine in factory. Yet it is good practice for a head gasket job to raise the head and head gasket gently then immediately fix the cylinder liners in place. Also avoid rotating the crankshaft.

Yes! Now that I have learned many new things about that 1.3mpi engine (that I still appreciate very much because of timing chain, pushrods, maybe even because of the free liners, who knows), I hope it is easier to concentrate in the original swapping work done outdoors in the middle of the winter. Still no snow and frost here, and days are getting longer, so the mood is much better than before Christmas time. Maybe I start already in January. I try to document the phases well so that it might help somebody else !

Hi again! 

My friend got finally his garage organized so that I could start servicing the newer engine there. The first thing to do (after cleaning the motor properly) was to put it hanging on the ceiling and set some wood blocks under it so, that it would be standing steady on the table.

I got the flywheel locked so that I could remove the crankshaft's main bolt and its pulley. Thereafter I removed the 13mm nuts and 5mm allen screws. And also the oil pump highest part that was on its place with two 10mm bolts.

So I began carefully to try to get the timing chain cover off from the block. (and three oil sump screws facing the cover were removed, too).

But the cover doesn't want to separate from block. So, I wonder: Should I remove the oil sump totally to be able to remove all the oil pump parts to be able to remove the timing chain cover? It shall be actual later, as I am gonna replace crankshaft bearings, but should I do it already now?

Or should I only use more force to get it removed?

With humble greetings, JussiG7 from Finland

17 minutes ago, JussiG7 said:

Should I remove the oil sump totally to be able to remove all the oil pump parts to be able to remove the timing chain cover?

Yes.

It shall be actual later, as I am gonna replace crankshaft bearings, but should I do it already now?

Yes.

Or should I only use more force to get it removed?

No.

 

Thanks about the fast reply!

Now I only need an assistant to get the engine hanging higher to be able to remove sump and pump. 🙂

 

Hello again!

It was really wise to not use violence against the poor old engine. After we removed the sump, it was obvious that the one screw holding oil pump steady in the block part´s bottom had to to be removed, too.

I had seen the whole thing already in December, as I removed the oil pump and all its parts from the bottom, but did not remember any more... Good memory, but short :-) 

 

So, now we got the timing cover removed finally. And got access to the chain and sprockets. They seem to be quite in condition, only the chain has become a bit loose, naturally. The teeth of the sprockets seem all right, too.

But because I ordered the whole kit from Czech Republic already in January, I shall of course remove the old set and refit the new one https://www.skoda-parts.com/spare-part/6u0198026-timing-chain-kit-cz-36815.html

In my old Ladas I did change timing chains several times, but they were ordinary analog  carburetor/distributor models, so they were a bit easier, if I remember correct. But there seem to be very many same kind of things present with this Skoda 1.3mpi engine timing chain and sprocket setting case.

And the essential thing in any combustion engine is the timing between crankshaft and camshaft. Only in this case they are so close each other, that the marking points are easy to see, and the cylinder head does not have to be even touched :)  And comparing with OHC this OHV- engine does not use/need a tensioner. 

 

So, it should be easy to change the sprockets and the chain, especially as there is a Haynes book available ! But for me the job seems difficult, especially because the engine is not in car (Haynes gives advises presuming that thing)

On the other hand the job is very easy, because there is no problem of too narrow room or restricted visibility. For me the main problem seems to be: HOW TO LOCK THE CAMSHAFT WELL ???

I have a (good or bad) habit to collect the issues of one topic to a photo collage. And so it is also now. In that collage of photos, drawings and text I try to ask help to that basic problem I seem to have.

 

Spring Greetings from Southern Finland that had no winter at all this year !

If you can lock the crankshaft, the camshaft is locked too with the chain on.

Of course! But as I remove the chain and the sprockets, it is no more locked. Maybe I worry too much? It is, however, rather easy to set the camshaft back to its right position, if it should turn a bit while removing the sprocket and Woodruff Key. The drawing shows the principle, and it is possible to draw some marks in block to refit the new sprocket, I suppose.

 

Edited 23 February, 20206 yr by JussiG7

I will try again.

You have the old chain installed with crankshaft blocked. Now unscrew the camshaft bolt.

You put the new chain. Lock the crankshaft. Screw the camshaft bolt.

I don´t know, what is wrong with our communication.

If I were changing only the chain, it would be that easy. But as I change also the sprocket and WK of the camshaft, there is a season as nothing prevents the camshaft from turning. On the other hand: Nothing forces it to turn, so I suppose I worry too much. Do you get my idea?

29 minutes ago, JussiG7 said:

as nothing prevents the camshaft from turning

You forget the camshaft has cams engaged to lifters, rockers with hard springs. So it's not like the camshaft will move like a seesaw...

Moreover, the gears have Woodruff keys and the chain has only one correct installation position.

I did not forget the cams engaged to lifters and rockers with springs. Just because of them I thought that the camshaft could turn a bit, not very much. (like finding the best position with the lowest tension).

But enough to confuse the timing. On the other hand; I thought that maybe those lifters and rockers with strong springs might cause some kind of balance, so that the camshaft might not turn at all.

Now I believe that I don´t have to worry any more. And really, there should be only one right position for the two sprockets with Woodruff  keys. And because of that the chain has only one correct position.

This kind of problems occur, as somebody tries to see the future with theoretical knowledge, not with personal experience 😊

But as I am not busy, it is better to think too much than too little 😄

Atentamente, JussiG7

Whenever I do a chain on a DOHC engine once everything is at TDC I remove a bearing cap from each camshaft, slip in a paper shim and replace the cap hand tightened to lock each cam. Because otherwise when the chain is removed one or both cams may shift to the equilibrium point between opposing valve springs.

The information is not relevant to Skoda Felicia.

Thanks about the comments!

I would not even like to own a DOHC engine car, with a chain or a belt. For me too risky, because of the destruction happening if belt, chain or e.g. coolant pump would break down (like in older Opel Astra 16v engines.)

So, thanks to J.R. for giving me one reason more to keep my hands off from twin cam engines 😉

Difficulties again!

After removing the camshaft bolt and washers I thought it would be easy to remove the driving gear of the oil pump (Haynes picture showed a man taking it off bare handed), but this far I have not been able to get it off with any tool. Dared not to heat it, fearing that The carbon structure of the steel might change and the driving gear would become too soft. Any advises?

And might the Woodruff Key of the camshaft (not visible) have something to do with the case?

JG7 from Finland

You'll need a gear puller.