Torsion Beam rear end Estate handling

[StriderDog]

12 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

I concur.

 

On a smooth, straight road, the Octavia is fine, but throw in bumps, ripples and bends..... 

 

It annoys me more than it should, but my Mk1 Mondeo of the mid 90s had a better chassis. 

 

I should have bought a 1.5 Ecoboost Focus estate, even if the boot was smaller

 

That's exactly how I find the ride, it's almost frighting if you go around a tight bend and the road is rough it feels unstable and the suspension is noisy, if the road has undulations the car 'floats' and doesn't feel planted like the Mondeo did. Still, there are lots of things I really like about the Octavia but in my total honest opinion the build quality is well below that of the Mondeo 13 plate Titanium X BE.

The positive flip side of the DSG and the mediocre handling is I now drive like my dad, 75 years old and looking to squeeze every drop of mpg out..

Edited 25 January, 2020 by StriderDog

[MC Bodge]

4 minutes ago, Kental said:

 

My hatch really isn't that bad, very surprised how much better than the 18 plate hire car estate I was given earlier in the month. Strange how so similar cars can be so different.

The harder estate ride is presumably a result of the firmer rear springs. 

 

The handling effects of the rear suspension are presumably shared between the torsion beam cars, but I'd expect the stiffer rear to hold up better under hard/quick turning. 

[MC Bodge]

2 minutes ago, StriderDog said:

That's exactly how I find the ride, it's almost frighting if you go around a tight bend and the road is rough it feels unstable and the suspension is noisy, if the road has undulations the car 'floats' and doesn't feel planted like the Mondeo did. Still, there are lots of things I really like about the Octavia but in my total honest opinion the build quality is well below that of the Mondeo 13 plate Titanium X BE.

The positive flip side of the DSG and the mediocre handling is I now drive like my dad, 75 years old and looking to squeeze every drop of mpg out..

Haha. I'm resisting doing that.

 

A few of us have commented on how good our Mk4 Mondeos were. Mine (on 16" wheels and non sport suspension) was excellent and composed at speed on bumpy, challenging mountain roads Eg. Corney Fell. The Octavia is jarring, bouncing and rolling all over the place with far less steering precision on the same sort of roads. 

[Gerrycan]

It is amusing to note that as this thread progresses the posts on the Octavia rear torsion bar have progressed from 'poor' to 'extremely poor and unsafe' while the Mondeo has gone from 'good' to somewhere near magic carpet status  

 

Meanwhile recent reports suggest that the next generation Mondeo will have leaf spring rear suspension 😂

https://www.caradvice.com.au/821689/ford-mondeo-replacement-to-be-launched-in-2021-report/

 

I'm sure it will be wonderful though.

[classic]

I’ve got some country lanes to get down in mine today, not sure if I dare do it now 😱

[logiclee]

10 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

It is amusing to note that as this thread progresses the posts on the Octavia rear torsion bar have progressed from 'poor' to 'extremely poor and unsafe' while the Mondeo has gone from 'good' to somewhere near magic carpet status  

 

Meanwhile recent reports suggest that the next generation Mondeo will have leaf spring rear suspension 😂

https://www.caradvice.com.au/821689/ford-mondeo-replacement-to-be-launched-in-2021-report/

 

I'm sure it will be wonderful though.

 

Well Ford can make their torsion beam cars ride and handle superbly and VAG can't so a leaf sprung Mondeo maybe great.  

[logiclee]

15 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

The harder estate ride is presumably a result of the firmer rear springs. 

 

The handling effects of the rear suspension are presumably shared between the torsion beam cars, but I'd expect the stiffer rear to hold up better under hard/quick turning. 

 

I think we are seeing people "Expectations" 

 

I've driven hatch and estate with torsion beam, both on 17's and they were both equally poor for comfort, handling and noise.

[logiclee]

2 hours ago, classic said:

I’ve got some country lanes to get down in mine today, not sure if I dare do it now 😱

 

You won't die.

 

Will you enjoy the experience? 

 

That's the levels of difference.

[gregoir]

Reading through back issues of What Car. Most articles, I mentally shout how much?  Cars £45,000 plus with less space than Octavia and limitations and poor mpg. A basic Octavia can be bought for £17000 iirc. 

 

 

[MC Bodge]

2 hours ago, gregoir said:

Reading through back issues of What Car. Most articles, I mentally shout how much?  Cars £45,000 plus with less space than Octavia and limitations and poor mpg. A basic Octavia can be bought for £17000 iirc. 

 

 

Yes. It is noticeable though that the people who have come from Fords (torsion Beam and multi link rear) are the ones who are complaining about the Octavia chassis. 

 

The Octavia has some good points, but for the keen driver, the torsion bar cars are lacking and inferior to a 1993 Mondeo. 

[MC Bodge]

5 hours ago, classic said:

I’ve got some country lanes to get down in mine today, not sure if I dare do it now 😱

If you don't drive briskly and have never experienced or noticed/cared about better ride, handling and steering in other cars, you may well be happy with your Octavia. 

 

It isn't horrific. 

 

[MC Bodge]

14 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

It is amusing to note that as this thread progresses the posts on the Octavia rear torsion bar have progressed from 'poor' to 'extremely poor and unsafe' while the Mondeo has gone from 'good' to somewhere near magic carpet status  

 

Meanwhile recent reports suggest that the next generation Mondeo will have leaf spring rear suspension 😂

https://www.caradvice.com.au/821689/ford-mondeo-replacement-to-be-launched-in-2021-report/

 

I'm sure it will be wonderful though.

I suspect that it won't have a live rear axle. The leaf springs will just be a convenient package for the spring task and are unlikely to be holding the rear in place. 

[logiclee]

What really did it for me was on my commute I have some poor bumpy roads.

 

The Mk3 really didn't like it, thuds through the cabin, crashing over ridges and the back end skipping about if pushing on. And on top of that the constant road noise on the poor surface.

 

In isolation you could say that's because it's a budget car and not driver focused like a Mondeo/Focus.

 

But I car share and my colleagues Astra is perfectly confident and refined.

 

And doubly worse my wifes Mk2 Octavia is perfectly refined, quite, comfortable and planted down the same road.

 

That Skoda made a car that's worse than the competition isn't good. That they made it worse than it's predecessor is inexcusable.  

[AllanDJ]

I think it depends in part upon how old your car is. I had one of the first Octavia Estates a 2013 Elegance model with 17 inch wheels, its suspension was rough to say the least. Current car is a 2019 facelift Estae model in SE Tech spec with 16 inch wheels, which feels much more refined than the first car did, even on rough road surfaces. 

[logiclee]

7 hours ago, AllanDJ said:

I think it depends in part upon how old your car is. I had one of the first Octavia Estates a 2013 Elegance model with 17 inch wheels, its suspension was rough to say the least. Current car is a 2019 facelift Estae model in SE Tech spec with 16 inch wheels, which feels much more refined than the first car did, even on rough road surfaces. 

 

You have an extra inch of side wall cushioning and narrower tyres. 

 

Even on 2013 models 205 section tyres and 16" Rims are quieter and cushion the thuds more through the torsion beam.  

[Kental]

Maybe I find my Octavia acceptable is that it has 16" wheels & Cross Climate tyres that may be more compliant than more sports focus ones.  The estate I found disappointing had 16" wheels  and Continental tyres. Both cars are facelift.

Edited 27 January, 2020 by Kental

[MarkyG82]

Tyre pressure will play a bigger part than brand.  Then you have size then load/speed rating too.  Cross climate or conti sport in the same size and pressure would likely feel similar as far as suspension goes.  Traction/grip/cornering support will vary with the tyre type more than brand.  It'll be the 16" size that is making the difference here.

[MC Bodge]

I have 16" rims with Rainsport tyres. I have the pressures at 31psi.

 

The ride over ripples and small bumps is still poor. The lack of independent suspension almost certainly compounds it  as the car rocks side to side as each side hits the small bumps. 

 

As per my earlier post, having been an enthusiastic driver of mostly cars with multi link (or at least well developed torsion beam) suspension for the past 25 years, this car is noticeably poor. It is a car designed for IRS with a cheapo torsion beam retrofitted, but not developed sufficiently. 

 

I would like a car with the same engine, but a better chassis. 

Edited 28 January, 2020 by MC Bodge

[MarkyG82]

@MC Bodge sounds like you want a golf?

[MC Bodge]

7 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

@MC Bodge sounds like you want a golf?

Possibly, but Auto Trader shows mostly 123bhp ones. I would want a 150.

 

A Passat or Superb could be an alternative, although I do like the more compact size of the Octavia.

[MarkyG82]

Leon comes in a 1.8 fr with IRS.  The 1.4 is same spec but with torsion beam.  I like to think of the 1.8 variant as VRS lite.

[juan27]

On 26/01/2020 at 15:07, MC Bodge said:

I suspect that it won't have a live rear axle. The leaf springs will just be a convenient package for the spring task and are unlikely to be holding the rear in place. 

 

Maybe its a single transverse leaf spring as the Fiat 127/128 had at the rear? Its a very compact solution. 

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, MC Bodge said:

I have 16" rims with Rainsport tyres. I have the pressures at 31psi.

 

The ride over ripples and small bumps is still poor. The lack of independent suspension almost certainly compounds it  as the car rocks side to side as each side hits the small bumps. 

 

As per my earlier post, having been an enthusiastic driver of mostly cars with multi link (or at least well developed torsion beam) suspension for the past 25 years, this car is noticeably poor. It is a car designed for IRS with a cheapo torsion beam retrofitted, but not developed sufficiently. 

 

 

 

Yep agree. The torsion beam works better but not well in the Golf but it has a shorter wheelbase and a much shorter overhang.  The torsion beam in the Octy has to control a much fatter ar5e.

 

I've had a loaner with 16's and while it does negate some of the crashiness the noise, thudding and poor handling remain. Mine was a SEL on 17's but I did try an L&K on 18's and the ride was shocking.

My current car has 19's and while firm there's no crashiness and no noise.

 

On the Mk2 there was little tech but decent ride/handling and insulation. On the Mk3 I think they used all the MQB tech and infotainment but the cost saving came on the mechanicals and insulation.

 

[Guest]

On 26/01/2020 at 15:16, logiclee said:

What really did it for me was on my commute I have some poor bumpy roads.

 

The Mk3 really didn't like it, thuds through the cabin, crashing over ridges and the back end skipping about if pushing on. And on top of that the constant road noise on the poor surface.

 

In isolation you could say that's because it's a budget car and not driver focused like a Mondeo/Focus.

 

But I car share and my colleagues Astra is perfectly confident and refined.

 

And doubly worse my wifes Mk2 Octavia is perfectly refined, quite, comfortable and planted down the same road.

 

That Skoda made a car that's worse than the competition isn't good. That they made it worse than it's predecessor is inexcusable.  

 

Inexcusable?  After reading the above post that's very similer to the word I'd use to describe someone who obviously likes 'enjoying' their car but apparently didn't take it on a test drive before buying it. Or if they did take it on a test drive, they didn't take it on the roads they typically drive on.

 

Exactly who's at fault - Skoda or the buyer?  If you want a car that drives like a Ford - buy a Ford. If you want a car that drives like an Astra, buy an Astra.

 

 

 

 

[J.R.]

Skoda.