It's easy to be smitten by the diesel torque if one has only ever driven weedy NA petrols. I know because I used to be one.. even a 120hp diesel felt quick to me at one point because of the low end power. Ultimately it isn't that quick because the power band is narrow.

 

The latest turbo petrol engines have closed the gap tremendously so it isn't a reason anymore. Fuel consumption maybe but that is very specific in use case. 

 

 

On 30/05/2020 at 23:14, KeteCantek said:

There isn't much of a difference between both as turbocharged petrol has a good torque curve. 

 

More relevant is the use case. If many journeys are short , diesel is asking for trouble

 

Point 1. I agree, and the diesel runs out of puff quickly; the TSI is much broader. 

 

Point 2. I dont agree. For the last two years of its life, our diesel did around four 2 mile journeys a day for 32 weeks of the year and it didn’t miss a beat. The car regeneration cut in around every 6-8 weeks and occasionally I whipped it up the A3 for a 18 mile blast - not once did the regen light pop on. 

 

Additionally, a large comfortable saloon with mighty performance just wasn’t available back in 2012 when I bought the CR170, and that thing was soooo much nicer, more refined and quicker than the old PD140 barge I still have.  And I certainly couldn’t afford a similar sized or specc’d car at that time with the performance the 280 has on tap. 

Edited 1 June, 20206 yr by numskull
Speling!

19 hours ago, numskull said:

 

Point 1. I agree, and the diesel runs out of puff quickly; the TSI is much broader. 

 

Point 2. I dont agree. For the last two years of its life, our diesel did around four 2 mile journeys a day for 32 weeks of the year and it didn’t miss a beat. The car regeneration cut in around every 6-8 weeks and occasionally I whipped it up the A3 for a 18 mile blast - not once did the regen light pop on. 

 

Additionally, a large comfortable saloon with mighty performance just wasn’t available back in 2012 when I bought the CR170, and that thing was soooo much nicer, more refined and quicker than the old PD140 barge I still have.  And I certainly couldn’t afford a similar sized or specc’d car at that time with the performance the 280 has on tap. 

What did you do in between the 4x2mile per day journeys ? Even petrol cars suffer with that sort of usage since the engine oil cannot get up to temperature. There is chance of oil dilution. 

 

 

The odd 25-120 mile journey every couple of months maybe, more during the school holidays. I also changed the oil every 12 months in between the regular service which popped up about at 18-22 months.  

14 hours ago, numskull said:

The odd 25-120 mile journey every couple of months maybe, more during the school holidays. I also changed the oil every 12 months in between the regular service which popped up about at 18-22 months.  

 

TSI for you.

 

 

It’s what I have; TSI 280! Traded in the oil burner. 

On 30/05/2020 at 23:14, KeteCantek said:

There isn't much of a difference between both as turbocharged petrol has a good torque curve. 

 

More relevant is the use case. If many journeys are short , diesel is asking for trouble

 

On 01/06/2020 at 20:45, numskull said:

 

Point 1. I agree, and the diesel runs out of puff quickly; the TSI is much broader. 

 

Point 2. I dont agree. For the last two years of its life, our diesel did around four 2 mile journeys a day for 32 weeks of the year and it didn’t miss a beat. The car regeneration cut in around every 6-8 weeks and occasionally I whipped it up the A3 for a 18 mile blast - not once did the regen light pop on. 

 

Additionally, a large comfortable saloon with mighty performance just wasn’t available back in 2012 when I bought the CR170, and that thing was soooo much nicer, more refined and quicker than the old PD140 barge I still have.

 

There's a BIG caveat to that.  I'm assuming the OP was talking about leasing a new TDi - how old are those diesel's Numskull is talking about?

 

Newer diesel's are far more complicated and dare I say inefficient in order to meet emission standards. General opinion is that it is not a good idea to run a modern diesel over such short distances, not in the long-term anyway.

 

The only thing I'd add to the TDi -v- TSi debate is that traditionally, people choose TDi to save money. Haven't a clue what the difference is in lease costs are between the two but for the private buyer, where once upon a time you could argue the extra expendature on a Tdi could be recouped come trade-in, that's no longer the case. And with TDi fuel advantage diminished due to all the onboard emission technology, you seriously have to be covering humongous miles to make a Tdi financialy viable.  Of course there are other advantages to a TDi such as towing but in general, Tdi is on the decline. 

Newer diesels are MORE efficient.

 

The 2017 Superb 150 TDI used less fuel than the 2015 Octavia 150 TDI it replaced.  Bigger and heavier car as well.

 

I remember feeling pleased when my 84 hp 2.0 Tdi Vectra achieved 60 MPG, not difficult with the Superb.

Until recently I would suggest people stay away from TDIs, unless they do a lot of KM. The particulate filters have a habit of becoming expensively clogged. Now, unfortunately, petrol VAG cars are now shipping with particulate filters, and so that differentiation may be going away too.

 

I would suggest you all hang on for as long as you can and go 100% electric at this point 

if current DPFs have had their initial bugs sorted, couldn't diesel be better for short trips, as it's a lubricant, vs petrol, which is an engine-oil-diluting solvent ?

On 05/06/2020 at 18:07, digifish said:

Until recently I would suggest people stay away from TDIs, unless they do a lot of KM. The particulate filters have a habit of becoming expensively clogged. Now, unfortunately, petrol VAG cars are now shipping with particulate filters, and so that differentiation may be going away too.

 

I would suggest you all hang on for as long as you can and go 100% electric at this point 

Petrol engines have hotter exhausts gasses, so there's less chance of clogging.

We will not know if the current DPF's & SCR vehicles are sorted out and all is good at 5 years old until there are 5 year old ones from when the were WLTP Approved in Europe.

So that is a few years yet.

 

Just like GPF / OPF Petrols.  

Some of those have had issues already.   Vorsprung Durch Technik.   

VW Group are going Light Hybrid and Plug IN Hybrid because cheating WLTP & RDE2 results is not easy now.

Maybe if people flexed their right ankles a bit more.   My Golf's now on 94K miles, not a lot for a 12 year old car.  The only exhaust issue I've had in all that time was a failed pressure sensor.  

Other than that, it's never so much as thrown a check engine light. There was also an 18 month period when I did little more with it than bimble it round the village; so it's not entirely due to 

having been driven hard for most of its life

On 03/06/2020 at 18:38, Scot5 said:

 

 

There's a BIG caveat to that.  I'm assuming the OP was talking about leasing a new TDi - how old are those diesel's Numskull is talking about?

 

Newer diesel's are far more complicated and dare I say inefficient in order to meet emission standards. General opinion is that it is not a good idea to run a modern diesel over such short distances, not in the long-term anyway.

 

The only thing I'd add to the TDi -v- TSi debate is that traditionally, people choose TDi to save money. Haven't a clue what the difference is in lease costs are between the two but for the private buyer, where once upon a time you could argue the extra expendature on a Tdi could be recouped come trade-in, that's no longer the case. And with TDi fuel advantage diminished due to all the onboard emission technology, you seriously have to be covering humongous miles to make a Tdi financialy viable.  Of course there are other advantages to a TDi such as towing but in general, Tdi is on the decline. 

Thank you all for your comments, going by the information kindly supplied I will be going for the 2.0 tsi engine, for a bit of oomph when required? 

@Schtum

12 years ago is so very 2008. 

Many of us had Euro 4 diesels and no issues.   

(i have a 2006 Turbo Diesel Automatic as a daily driver, my 2016 TDI would not have liked lockdown type use. 5 days of short trips and the DPF light was on)

 

12 year old Golfs has not got much to do with a Euro 6 TSI and DPF's and SCR (AdBlue), other than that is a good choice of worry free diesel driving.

 

Your 2016 Yeti & Karoq 2.0TDI 190 is very much more interesting as to how they like bimbling about the village.

Edited 11 June, 20205 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

45 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@Schtum

12 years ago is so very 2008. 

Many of us had Euro 4 diesels and no issues.   

(i have a 2006 Turbo Diesel Automatic as a daily driver, my 2016 TDI would not have liked lockdown type use. 5 days of short trips and the DPF light was on)

 

12 year old Golfs has not got much to do with a Euro 6 TSI and DPF's and SCR (AdBlue), other than that is a good choice of worry free diesel driving.

 

Your 2016 Yeti & Karoq 2.0TDI 190 is very much more interesting as to how they like bimbling about the village.

 

Except that PD TDI engines are notorious for DPF issues.  So much so that's usually cited as the main reason for VAG dumping them and going back to common rail.

 

Mine is probably a rare example in still having its DPF and EGR intact.  What's your 2006 car and does it have a DPF?  They were only fitted to the BMN engine as standard, although they could be specced on both BKD and 8 valve BMM as an option.  

 

We lived on the other side of the Forth in the days when my Golf was just bimbled around.  These days we're into extra-legal speeds every time we leave the drive. The Karoq is on target to do 15K miles a year but the Yeti might only do half that. 

@Schtum I am off topic now, it is a 3.2 Turbo Diesel Mitsubishi a potter about in getting about 26mpg and smelling strongly.

I did have a 2005 Passat Estate 1.9  TDI 130 that survived much abuse without issue.

1 minute ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@Schtum I am off topic now, it is a 3.2 Turbo Diesel Mitsubishi a potter about in getting about 26mpg and smelling strongly.

I did have a 2005 Passat Estate 1.9  TDI 130 that survived much abuse without issue.

 

The Passat would, of course have been sans DPF.  I bought a Mk4 Golf with the TDI 115 engine in 2000 ...far too impatient, should have waited for the 130 and mapped it to 180.  It was mapped to 150 and I eventually had Star fit a Milltek decat pipe at c. 100K miles because the original downpipe broke in half.  The only issue with the Mk5, in that respect, is that at 12 years and 94K miles, it's very stinky when the ambient temperature is down around 4 deg C. 

On 10/06/2020 at 20:56, chrisluciofg said:

if current DPFs have had their initial bugs sorted, couldn't diesel be better for short trips, as it's a lubricant, vs petrol, which is an engine-oil-diluting solvent ?

Diesel can dilute the engine oil too and too much may cause problems such as engine runaway which won't be very fun. 

 

Plus, diesel of course won't do much lubricating by itself. Pre dpf, probably no big deal but nowadays, short runs are not ideal for diesel, especially many of them in a row.

On 11/06/2020 at 16:31, Okami01 said:

Thank you all for your comments, going by the information kindly supplied I will be going for the 2.0 tsi engine, for a bit of oomph when required? 

Assume you are going with the 190 petrol? Don't think anybody has done a review of it here so when you do, looking forward to see what you think of it. 

I won’t buy a diesel again - DPF issues on my last car, good mpg but buying a car for its mpg is ridiculous. Buy the car you want, you’ll find the money to run it unless it’s a V8...
 

I do around 20k miles a year in my TSI and get around 38mpg commuting on the motorway, 31mpg mixed. I spend upto £400 a month on petrol but it makes me smile. 

 

I can start the car quietly and get warm quickly, without the tractor sound ruining the peace and making everything rattle.

 

Petrol smells nice too 👍
 

Edit: I may have to buy a diesel camper van,  can’t find a TSI! 😆

Edited 24 June, 20205 yr by drewellis

Thank you all for your comments and wisdom. Ive FINALLY placed my order for a leased 1.5 tsi DSG SE Technology, in Quartz Grey, after must tooing and froing, due to there being no Skoda Estates in my previous spec , which was the 2.0 TDI SEL and agents trying to sell me a different car. On paper this one ticks all the boxes and is within budget. I should know tomorrow when it will be delivered.