256mm to 312mm brake upgrade

[Jamez1095]

Hi all,

 

New to posting to the forum but I’ve been actively reading and learning from threads for the past couple of years.

 

I have a 66 plate Fabia Monte Carlo 1.2TSI 90hp/5 speed version and I’d like to upgrade my brakes from 256mm to 312mm. I’m happy with the current stopping power but this is more for cosmetic reasons.

I’ve done a fair bit of research already and have seen lots of guides of people doing this with the 110hp/6 speed Fabia which has the FN3 288mm brakes but I’ve hardly seen anyone do this with the FSIII 256mm brakes so I would really appreciate some more mechanically minded people’s opinions on a few things!

 

The main thing I’m stuck with at the moment are; As the carriers are moulded into the steering hub housing on my car (and this also going by the name of wheel hub, steering knuckle and stub axle really didn’t help trying to understand the parts), I believe I need to try and find the steering hub housing and wheel bearing from the 110hp variant?
Whenever I search by the version of the car for compatible parts, I seem to be getting all different results. For example with the Wheel bearing kits listed as compatible, they have all different outer and inner diameters. Does anyone have any advice on this? Or does anyone know the OEM numbers for both these parts please?

 

Secondly, I’m thinking of also getting brand new discs and pads but used and in good condition callipers, carriers and dust shields. Would all 312mm VW group brake components be compatible? I’ve seen there’s ones to look for from old Octavia VRS/old Audi TT/ old Golfs and Newer Polo GTI’s…

 

Lastly is that everything that would be needed? Can all the original brake lines and bolts/fittings be used still?

 

Sorry for the many questions 

 

James.

[Breezy_Pete]

Bearing carrier and matching bearing part numbers here: https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2016-797/4/407-407000/ (8A, 9)

 

Is it really worth it? 

[FabiaGonzales]

13 hours ago, Jamez1095 said:

Hi all,

 

New to posting to the forum but I’ve been actively reading and learning from threads for the past couple of years.

 

I have a 66 plate Fabia Monte Carlo 1.2TSI 90hp/5 speed version and I’d like to upgrade my brakes from 256mm to 312mm. I’m happy with the current stopping power but this is more for cosmetic reasons.

I’ve done a fair bit of research already and have seen lots of guides of people doing this with the 110hp/6 speed Fabia which has the FN3 288mm brakes but I’ve hardly seen anyone do this with the FSIII 256mm brakes so I would really appreciate some more mechanically minded people’s opinions on a few things!

 

The main thing I’m stuck with at the moment are; As the carriers are moulded into the steering hub housing on my car (and this also going by the name of wheel hub, steering knuckle and stub axle really didn’t help trying to understand the parts), I believe I need to try and find the steering hub housing and wheel bearing from the 110hp variant?
Whenever I search by the version of the car for compatible parts, I seem to be getting all different results. For example with the Wheel bearing kits listed as compatible, they have all different outer and inner diameters. Does anyone have any advice on this? Or does anyone know the OEM numbers for both these parts please?

 

Secondly, I’m thinking of also getting brand new discs and pads but used and in good condition callipers, carriers and dust shields. Would all 312mm VW group brake components be compatible? I’ve seen there’s ones to look for from old Octavia VRS/old Audi TT/ old Golfs and Newer Polo GTI’s…

 

Lastly is that everything that would be needed? Can all the original brake lines and bolts/fittings be used still?

 

Sorry for the many questions 

 

James.

 

I've looked at the brake lines and fittings, you will need new copper crush washers for the banjo bolts, but the lines *should* fit, they might be a little tighter than before.

 

I generally get the part number from catcar.info (or other part catalogue website), and paste that into a parts site and it feeds me a list of all the matching parts.

 

Polo GTI calipers & carriers are a great choice, they're a guaranteed bolt on swap (along with the knuckle of course), they're also red painted, so should look neat when they're all done and dusted.

[Jamez1095]

17 hours ago, Wino said:

Bearing carrier and matching bearing part numbers here: https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2016-797/4/407-407000/ (8A, 9)

 

Is it really worth it? 

 

Well there's probably a reason why not so many have done it, haha. I think it'll look nice with the alloys I have. I haven't figured out how to position pictures in posts without them just showing at the bottom but I've made my car my cover photo on my profile  Thanks for the link to the part numbers, that's very handy!
 

I can't even see an option to edit posts either...

 

11 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

I've looked at the brake lines and fittings, you will need new copper crush washers for the banjo bolts, but the lines *should* fit, they might be a little tighter than before.

 

I generally get the part number from catcar.info (or other part catalogue website), and paste that into a parts site and it feeds me a list of all the matching parts.

 

Polo GTI calipers & carriers are a great choice, they're a guaranteed bolt on swap (along with the knuckle of course), they're also red painted, so should look neat when they're all done and dusted.

 

Thanks for taking a look. Do you think it would be common for a garage to have those washers if I provide all the main parts? I've never been to a garage requesting them to fit/change something like this before.

[FabiaGonzales]

1 minute ago, Jamez1095 said:

 

Well there's probably a reason why not so many have done it, haha. I think it'll look nice with the alloys I have. I haven't figured out how to position pictures in posts without them just showing at the bottom but I've made my car my cover photo on my profile  Thanks for the link to the part numbers, that's very handy!
 

I can't even see an option to edit posts either...

 

 

Thanks for taking a look. Do you think it would be common for a garage to have those washers if I provide all the main parts? I've never been to a garage requesting them to fit/change something like this before.

 

They're something any decent garage "should" have a few spares of, in case of replacing split lines etc. You can always call ahead to see if they do. You might find its easier to get the dealership to order some in they'll do them for you at part price if you ask them nicely. Be only a couple quid i guess.

 

You do get an edit option but only for like 2 hours ish after you made the post/reply.

[Breezy_Pete]

Joining 'Freedom' for £10/yr opens up unlimited editing and photo posting. https://www.briskoda.net/forums/subscriptions/

 

To position photos within posts, put your cursor where you want the image, then click on the + symbol on the LHS of the preview of the upload.

 

If you do go down the route of buying new bearing carriers and bearings, make sure whoever fits the bearings is equipped with the appropriate (GEN2) tooling and knows how to use it. If the bearings are not fitted correctly by this method, they'll be damaged during fitment, and you'll be back and forth trying to fix things, with the garage blaming your bearings and all sorts of grief. There still seem to be a lot of garages out there who'll just cheerfully press them in by the drive flange, which either causes immediate problems, or ones that appear later. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 October, 2020 by Wino

[Jamez1095]

On 06/10/2020 at 00:36, FabiaGonzales said:

 

They're something any decent garage "should" have a few spares of, in case of replacing split lines etc. You can always call ahead to see if they do. You might find its easier to get the dealership to order some in they'll do them for you at part price if you ask them nicely. Be only a couple quid i guess.

 

You do get an edit option but only for like 2 hours ish after you made the post/reply.

 

Ah, After having a quick look at brake hoses, I understand now the references to banjo bolts and where these washers come in to play.  10mm it seems? I'll be sure to check in adavance - Thanks 

Brake hoses are actually quite cheap compared to some of the items on this shopping list!

 

I've found the left steering knuckle https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/ridex-13633968.html

I assume they missed the Fabia Mk3 off the right hand side steering knuckle suitable vehicles list as the part number is 1 different and it has most of the suitable vehicles from the left knuckle as well. https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/ridex-13633967.html

Partly posting this so I can share it with the community in case anyone else tries to do something similar in the future but also I could be corrected in case that isn't the right part!

 

On 06/10/2020 at 06:07, Wino said:

Joining 'Freedom' for £10/yr opens up unlimited editing and photo posting. https://www.briskoda.net/forums/subscriptions/

 

To position photos within posts, put your cursor where you want the image, then click on the + symbol on the LHS of the preview of the upload.

 

If you do go down the route of buying new bearing carriers and bearings, make sure whoever fits the bearings is equipped with the appropriate (GEN2) tooling and knows how to use it. If the bearings are not fitted correctly by this method, they'll be damaged during fitment, and you'll be back and forth trying to fix things, with the garage blaming your bearings and all sorts of grief. There still seem to be a lot of garages out there who'll just cheerfully press them in by the drive flange, which either causes immediate problems, or ones that appear later. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info for the forums!

Also I had seen of that device from some other YouTube videos but it completely slipped my mind of things to mention to someone else carrying out the work so I've noted that down. 

[Breezy_Pete]

Only thing to bear in mind with companies like onlinecarparts.co.uk/autodoc.co.uk/buycarparts.co.uk is that despite the .co.uk web addresses, they're all operating and shipping out of Berlin, Germany. May well all be the same company, pretty sure the first two are, at least. 

Fine when everything goes well, but less handy if anything is wrongly supplied etc. and needs to be sent back. Delivery times may also reflect the distances involved. 

[Jamez1095]

So I’ve created a bit of a shopping list for when black Friday deals come along and what I’d really appreciate is another pair of eyes (or two) to go over this to check everything would be compatible, if one has a few minutes to spare. Very anxious that I’d get halfway through the brake conversion at a garage for a mechanic to say something doesn’t fit.

Most of this is based off of a VW Polo 1.8L GTI 2016 (This is needed to be put in for Eurocarparts to display product specs).

 

Brake discs - Confident these are fine

Brembo - https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/brembo-brake-disc-10444085A

Or (depending on prices/availability) - GSF Premium - https://www.gsfcarparts.com/601vg0350

 

Calliper and carriers

These will be from a 2009 Golf GTI for 312mm discs. In appearance, these look identical to the 2016 Polo GTI calliper. I found the Golf GTI had a bolt hole circle of 112mm while our Fabia’s and polo gti has 100mm. Hopefully that won’t affect the calliper and carriers as they don’t connect to them.

 

Brake pads - These are the for the Polo GTI calliper - Brake pads marked for the old Golf GTI have wear sensors or are much more expensive which is strange considering I think it’s the same calliper and the same pads?

https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/pagid-brake-pad-101444248

 

Dust shields – A few things I’d like to check with these! The website says these Polo gti dust shields are compatible with the Fabia Mk2 and they look identical to the dust shields in the brake systems manual for the Mk3 [pictured 14]. The website says these are for discs in diameter of 256, 288 and 312mm. I know the current ones on my car have a lip on them so any bigger brake discs wouldn’t fit. I couldn’t see any dust shields specifically for 312mm.

Left - https://www.autodoc.co.uk/topran/8878076

Right - https://www.autodoc.co.uk/topran/8878077

 

Wheel bearing - Confident these are fine

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/ridex-7999663.html

 

Stub axle - On the website, the right comes up saying doesn’t fit. The part number is 1 different and lists most of the other cars the left one supports so I suspect it's a website error saying it doesn't fit?

Left https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/ridex-13633968.html

Right https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/ridex-13633967.html

 

LAstly, hopefully the brake hoses are long enough… I have not sourced these.

Thank you in advance

[Tech1e]

28 minutes ago, Jamez1095 said:

Calliper and carriers

These will be from a 2009 Golf GTI for 312mm discs. In appearance, these look identical to the 2016 Polo GTI calliper. I found the Golf GTI had a bolt hole circle of 112mm while our Fabia’s and polo gti has 100mm. Hopefully that won’t affect the calliper and carriers as they don’t connect to them.

 

They won't fit, spacing is different on the carrier.

Personally I would just grab a whole hub from a MK1 vRS and clean and refurb as required.

[Jamez1095]

22 hours ago, Tech1e said:

 

They won't fit, spacing is different on the carrier.

Personally I would just grab a whole hub from a MK1 vRS and clean and refurb as required.

 

Ah I see. That's something quite fundamental that i missed! (Golf Mk5 left vs the Polo GTI right). I think I'd rather pay a bit more to have something newer considering it's the brakes and avoiding getting something older with lots of wear that i'd have to try and restore myself. The most i'd want to be doing myself is painting  But really appreciate the suggestion. As i can look into refurbed ones.

  

On 10/02/2020 at 10:21, cm9876 said:

Cars that have the same 310mm brakes are

Audi S1/A1

Polo 6R/6C 1.8GTI

Seat Ibiza 6p 1.8 Cupra

 

Sounds like my main options are from these listed above (in another thread?) Though I may also try looking into the stock 288mm calliper for the fabia and getting the carrier from one of these cars listed if it works out cheaper. Albeit they are like £90 new just for the carriers alone!  

 

Onto more researching for the actual calliper and carrier I guess. If anyone else has thoughts looking through the above parts list i'd definitely welcome in hearing them.

 

Edit: I now finally have an edit option after posting 10 times!

Edited 10 November, 2020 by Jamez1095

[Tech1e]

Audi S1 brake calipers

Edited 10 November, 2020 by Tech1e

[Jamez1095]

On 10/11/2020 at 11:31, Tech1e said:

Audi S1 brake calipers

 

Might be a silly question. Does that mean I should now look for 310mm discs? Whenever I put in the Polo GTI/Audi S1 etc, in to car part websites it mostly  comes up as 312mm discs fit. Seems like there's a lot more availability when it comes to 312mm too.

 

Secondly, may also be another silly question. I like the appearence more of the S1 brakes with that cover but it says the bolt hole circle is 112mm x 5. Will that have any effect on the brake calliper and carrier itself?

[Tech1e]

59 minutes ago, Jamez1095 said:

 

Might be a silly question. Does that mean I should now look for 310mm discs? Whenever I put in the Polo GTI/Audi S1 etc, in to car part websites it mostly  comes up as 312mm discs fit. Seems like there's a lot more availability when it comes to 312mm too.

 

Secondly, may also be another silly question. I like the appearence more of the S1 brakes with that cover but it says the bolt hole circle is 112mm x 5. Will that have any effect on the brake calliper and carrier itself?

You will need 310 discs (it does clarify that in the eBay listing) and the Audi A1 /S1 is 5x100. 
 

You can trust me on this one as I have them on my Fabia. 
 

[FabiaGonzales]

4 hours ago, Jamez1095 said:

 

Might be a silly question. Does that mean I should now look for 310mm discs? Whenever I put in the Polo GTI/Audi S1 etc, in to car part websites it mostly  comes up as 312mm discs fit. Seems like there's a lot more availability when it comes to 312mm too.

 

Secondly, may also be another silly question. I like the appearence more of the S1 brakes with that cover but it says the bolt hole circle is 112mm x 5. Will that have any effect on the brake calliper and carrier itself?

 

310/312 either or is fine. The spec says 310 but there's a bit of wiggle room.

 

I'm building up two assemblies (one for each side) completely from Polo GTI parts, hub bearing, knuckle, brake caliper & carrier, and everything. Looking to have all the parts needed in december, if not then january. I had a rear wheel bearing **** itself recently so i've spent a little on re-vamping the rear suspension first.

 

Interestingly the rear discs have the brake caliper & carrier removable entirely, so it should be relatively easy to swap those out to the Polo WRC (254mm vented discs) rear brakes.

[Jamez1095]

On 12/11/2020 at 15:04, FabiaGonzales said:

 

310/312 either or is fine. The spec says 310 but there's a bit of wiggle room.

 

I'm building up two assemblies (one for each side) completely from Polo GTI parts, hub bearing, knuckle, brake caliper & carrier, and everything. Looking to have all the parts needed in december, if not then january. I had a rear wheel bearing **** itself recently so i've spent a little on re-vamping the rear suspension first.

 

Interestingly the rear discs have the brake caliper & carrier removable entirely, so it should be relatively easy to swap those out to the Polo WRC (254mm vented discs) rear brakes.

 

Glad to hear there's some wiggle room. Much easier to get hold of 312mm discs!

 

Wow, your car seems too new for that to happen. Hope the build goes well. Keep an eye out for black Friday deals  Will see how the fronts go before I even consider the rears, haha.

[FabiaGonzales]

On 13/11/2020 at 23:54, Jamez1095 said:

 

Glad to hear there's some wiggle room. Much easier to get hold of 312mm discs!

 

Wow, your car seems too new for that to happen. Hope the build goes well. Keep an eye out for black Friday deals  Will see how the fronts go before I even consider the rears, haha.

I do have 73,000 miles on it, and it's mostly seen back roads, so that's most likely something to do with it.

 

The bearing had started making some noise at low speeds (like a low rumble), i've found the main beam bushes are starting to split (probably due to the type of usage and the fact it's lowered), and the shocks are as firm as a half deflated balloon, so i've gotten some bilstein b8 shocks and some polybushes for the rear beam.

 

I also got hold of some bump stops from an ibiza cupra r which are only 67mm long instead of 128mm long (they've been trashed from being crushed so often haha) so maybe that'll improve comfort a bit!

 

Once i've got the rear suspension done i'll post an update on my build log which if you search for Fizzy's Log you'll probably find it 😂