Worst suspension in car ownership

[Macsamillion]

8 hours ago, TheBinarySheep said:

they will transform the car.

Did you use original springs? 

[TheBinarySheep]

1 hour ago, Macsamillion said:

Did you use original springs? 

 

Yep, kept the original springs as I wanted to keep the ride hight OEM. As far as I'm aware the Koni shocks are not designed to work with other springs, only the OEM springs.

Before, the car would lean too much in the corners, over speed bumps it would continue to bounce, on country roads you couldn't really push on as much as you wanted to as the car bounced all over the place, and sometimes bumps in the road at 40mph+ would cause a really loud BANG as the shocks bottomed out.

 

I fitted the Koni's and that's all gone. My first test after I collected the car was a blast down a country road and I couldn't believe the transformation. Generally day to day driving doesn't feel a great deal different, possibly slightly firmer but there isn't much is it. The key thing the FSD's fix is the rebound on the suspension which is what I gather caused all the problems initially. The shocks also firm up when cornering as well to reduce body role and help with weight transfer when accelerating and breaking. If they did a VRS model of the Superb, I would imagine it would drive something like it does with FSDs.

 

Some people have fitted stiffer springs or a rear anti-roll bar, which is cheaper, but for me they don't get rid of the problem, just mask/hide it. The problem is that damping on the OEM shocks are terrible.

I've kept my original shocks, changed them at about 15,000 mile. At least then I can put them back on when I get rid of the car if I need to, or pass them onto the next owner.

Edited 19 October, 2020 by TheBinarySheep

[Insect_repellent:)]

23 hours ago, Macsamillion said:

Honestly the worst setup of any car I have owned in 23 years. I have a superb estate 4x4 280 without adaptive suspension. The car bottoms out and throws you all over the place as soon as you ask it to react to more than one upset. I have had two services done and keep asking them to check they haven't left bump stops in or the dampers are broke. How could they get it so wrong.  It's going to be the reason it goes. Or I go the replacement route. 

 

Sadly I must agree with you. I have a 2016 sedan and it's suspension setup is total crap. Unbelievable. Before I had a 2013 superb with factory sport suspension, it was lower, stiffer but much more comfortable on speed bumps etc. 

[Nick_H]

37 minutes ago, Insect_repellent:) said:

 

Sadly I must agree with you. I have a 2016 sedan and it's suspension setup is total crap. Unbelievable. Before I had a 2013 superb with factory sport suspension, it was lower, stiffer but much more comfortable on speed bumps etc. 

 

Strange would be interesting to have a drive in one of the posters cars who isnt happy to see how it differs from my setup.

[MarkyG82]

It's been discussed a few times that the RARB is too soft.  Is this part of the problem?  I see that it's bottoming out and a roll bar cant cure that.  I've never had a car that bottoms hard enough to bang.  Maybe the bump stops are too soft/small?

[TheBinarySheep]

1 hour ago, MarkyG82 said:

It's been discussed a few times that the RARB is too soft.  Is this part of the problem?  I see that it's bottoming out and a roll bar cant cure that.  I've never had a car that bottoms hard enough to bang.  Maybe the bump stops are too soft/small?

 

My limited understanding is that fitting a RARB reduces some of the body roll in corners but doesn't get rid of the original issue, it masks it. As far as I'm aware, the problem is that the OEM shocks are under damped, which means they're not controlling the springs which results in a floating/bouncy feel. If you drive your car like a grandad, you wouldn't even notice the issue, but when you're pushing on and trying to be a little enthusiastic around B roads, you really start to notice the limitations of the shocks. The shocks are supposed to control how quickly the springs can compress/uncompress, and in the case of the original shocks, they let the springs compress/uncompress too quickly with the springs doing most of the work. Some people have installed stiffer springs, and this does go someway to reducing the bounce, but at the consequence of a lower ride height.

 

If you like a good hoon down a B road every once in a while, fitting Koni's will make a huge difference. If all you do it motorway miles and you're not interested in hooning, then you probably wouldn't push the shocks to the limits enough to notice. This is the reason I think someone find the suspension as bad as they do, while others don't think it's an issue.

Just to add, I went from a Mk3 Octavia VRS to the Superb, and while the Octavia's suspension could never been described as sporty, it was firm enough to have fun whilst also being comfortable enough for daily driving. The Koni's essentially make the Superb the same.

Edited 19 October, 2020 by TheBinarySheep

[Nick_H]

37 minutes ago, TheBinarySheep said:

 

My limited understanding is that fitting a RARB reduces some of the body roll in corners but doesn't get rid of the original issue, it masks it. As far as I'm aware, the problem is that the OEM shocks are under damped, which means they're not controlling the springs which results in a floating/bouncy feel. If you drive your car like a grandad, you wouldn't even notice the issue, but when you're pushing on and trying to be a little enthusiastic around B roads, you really start to notice the limitations of the shocks. The shocks are supposed to control how quickly the springs can compress/uncompress, and in the case of the original shocks, they let the springs compress/uncompress too quickly with the springs doing most of the work. Some people have installed stiffer springs, and this does go someway to reducing the bounce, but at the consequence of a lower ride height.

 

If you like a good hoon down a B road every once in a while, fitting Koni's will make a huge difference. If all you do it motorway miles and you're not interested in hooning, then you probably wouldn't push the shocks to the limits enough to notice. This is the reason I think someone find the suspension as bad as they do, while others don't think it's an issue.

Just to add, I went from a Mk3 Octavia VRS to the Superb, and while the Octavia's suspension could never been described as sporty, it was firm enough to have fun whilst also being comfortable enough for daily driving. The Koni's essentially make the Superb the same.

 

 If you drive your car like a Grandad ! Well I can categorically say I don't drive my car like a Grandad ! Maybe people are driving too enthusiastically and should be on a track ?  I'm coming from Westfield, Sylva Striker, TVR and a Dax Tojeiro.

Edited 19 October, 2020 by Nick_H

[TheBinarySheep]

11 minutes ago, Nick_H said:

 

 If you drive your car like a Grandad ! Well I can categorically say I don't drive my car like a Grandad ! Maybe people are driving too enthusiastically and should be on a track ?  I'm coming from Westfield, Sylva Striker, TVR and a Dax Tojeiro.

 

Maybe there was a bad batch of shocks went out? 

All I know is, there's certain elements of driving enthusiastically that you feel far more uncomfortable doing in the Superb than you do an Octavia VRS. Country roads were the worst for me, going over bumps the rear would easily become unsettled. The loud BANG was also disturbing. There's one particular stretch of road where you drive down a hill which quickly goes up hill again and would fully compress the suspension at the bottom of the dip and cause a bang. It didn't happen in any other cars I'd driven, only in the Superb. 

 

In normal every day driving, it was absolutely fine.

Edited 19 October, 2020 by TheBinarySheep

[Nick_H]

Just now, TheBinarySheep said:

 

Maybe there was a bad batch of shocks went out? 

All I know is, there's certain elements of driving enthusiastically that you feel far more uncomfortable doing in the Superb than you do an Octavia VRS. Country roads were the worst for me, going over bumps the rear would easily become unsettled. The load BANG was also disturbing. There's one particular stretch of road where you drive down a hill which quickly goes up hill again and would fully compress the suspension at the bottom of the dip and cause a bang. It didn't happen in any other cars I'd driven, only in the Superb.

 

Well the Superb is more of a limo and the VRS is .... Well a VRS ... Never had the suspension compress enough to produce a bang. Can you point us via say Google Maps to the bit of road and let us know what kind of speed you were doing ?

[TheBinarySheep]

Just now, Nick_H said:

 

Well the Superb is more of a limo and the VRS is .... Well a VRS ... Never had the suspension compress enough to produce a bang. Can you point us via say Google Maps to the bit of road and let us know what kind of speed you were doing ?

 

I tried to paste a link but it wouldn't work. It's was a B road and speed was about 60-65 ish (may have been 70, yes I know!).

The thing for me was, I wanted a VRS with more power and while I knew the Superb wouldn't be as agile as a VRS, I certainly wasn't expecting it to be as floaty as it was. I will openly admit that at times I can drive quicker and more enthusiastically then I perhaps should, I simply couldn't understand why the Superb was unable to handle a road at a speed all other cars I'd owned previously could handle. For context, I've been driving 22 year so I've drove my fair share of cars along that same road.

 

I also understand that the Superb wasn't designed for the type of driving I'm subjecting it to, I openly admin that, the suspensions isn't terrible for the market it's targeting, but you get a few people like me who see it has the same engine as a Golf R and is more family friendly and you suddenly start to get a few people that are disappointed with the suspension. 

It's a fantastic all round car with a few faults that can easily be resolved for those that want it to handle better.

[Nick_H]

16 minutes ago, TheBinarySheep said:

 

I tried to paste a link but it wouldn't work. It's was a B road and speed was about 60-65 ish (may have been 70, yes I know!).

The thing for me was, I wanted a VRS with more power and while I knew the Superb wouldn't be as agile as a VRS, I certainly wasn't expecting it to be as floaty as it was. I will openly admit that at times I can drive quicker and more enthusiastically then I perhaps should, I simply couldn't understand why the Superb was unable to handle a road at a speed all other cars I'd owned previously could handle. For context, I've been driving 22 year so I've drove my fair share of cars along that same road.

 

I also understand that the Superb wasn't designed for the type of driving I'm subjecting it to, I openly admin that, the suspensions isn't terrible for the market it's targeting, but you get a few people like me who see it has the same engine as a Golf R and is more family friendly and you suddenly start to get a few people that are disappointed with the suspension. 

It's a fantastic all round car with a few faults that can easily be resolved for those that want it to handle better.

 

Sorry mate I re read what I put and it did sound a bit preachy ! None of us are saints ! Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction !

[TheBinarySheep]

Just now, Nick_H said:

 

Sorry mate I re read what I put and it did sound a bit preachy ! None of us are saints ! Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction !

 

No worries.

Thankfully, I've already replaced the shocks on mine for Koni FSDs, so I'm over the moon with the car and will be even more over the moon in a couple of weeks time when it's had it's ECU/DSG remap. It's a fantastic car, looks totally stock but surprises many people.

 

[MarkyG82]

Thinking (typing?) out loud, has anyone thought about those rubber ring things that can be fitted into the springs for heavy loads, towing, etc?  I know they wouldn't change the damping rate but apparently they do absorb some vibration and would go some way to reduce the bang on full compression.  You may gain a small amount of ride height though.

I guess the more long term fix would be FSDs or B6s.

[xman]

My car 2018 1.4 SEL Hatch with DCC 235/45 R18

 

I drive like a grandad mostly, I'm a grown up now.

 

After 2.5 years, yes the suspension is very disappointing.

 

DCC makes only subtle difference between modes. Unless you knew you would not detect the difference. My son who drives 20k miles a year couldn't until I showed him.

 

Normal = simply the best compromise

 

Comfort mostly not much difference from Normal. But if you go over a speed hump you notice its bounce is not controlled, it continues well past the half cycle that it should control. Basically damping is very much reduced. With a road that has, what rail engineers call cyclic top, a series of dips and crests, even quite slight, it can get very hairy, very quickly and uncontrolled as it hits the natural frequency of the suspension 

 

Sport = reminds you just how crap the road is. It doesn't seem to offer much in the way of improved handling, just you can hear and feel all the little bumps far more. Makes me feel sick and tired after a short while.

 

To me this car has obviously been set up for high speed motorway driving, it really starts to feel great at speeds of 80mph+ but that of course is illegal and licence robbing speed in the UK.

 

Its not too bad if it hits a bump, provided its on both sides straight on and going fast enough. But if you are go over a speed hump on just one side, its not pleasant, I think the arb has some blame here. If the road conditions make left and right sides do things out of sync over a certain level of unevenness, it gets messy. 

 

In its defence, DCC does seem to assist sudden changes in direction and taking corners at reasonable speeds, more than a simple arb would. And thats regardless of mode. Very little lean. Maybe thats the Dynamic bit of DCC.

 

All in all it's a noisy affair, road roar is loud and constant (P7) and highly surface dependent. Road joints, manhole covers etc usually are loud slapping affairs. Potholes do bang loudly and can be very disturbing, but I doubt its the suspension bottoming, its just that the front setup in particular is not well isolated from the body.

 

Stupid low profiles just make it worse, would not buy a car with 45 or less profile again.

 

In summary, its a large barge with big armchairs on squidgy springs/dampers and in my case, hard wheels/tyres. Its size and wheelbase is never going to make it sporty, not that that interests me a great deal. Road noise and a tendency to wallow are its most annoying traits for me.

 

There is a short stretch of the M1 somewhere near Sheffield where everything is bliss, super silence and calm, sadly less than a mile or two. If only all UK roads were like that.

 

 

Edited 19 October, 2020 by xman
Too much use of the word 'very'

[newbie69]

The Superb is just a slightly longer MQB car meaning the potential is there to tailor it to the exact level of sportiness you're after with affordable, off-the self solutions. Also, at 1650kg and 4.86m it's hardly inhibited to improve due to its dimensions, especially with today's technology. I can think of several both bigger and heavier cars that handle far better from factory because the suspension and chassis were designed with driver involvement in mind (but they also cost 2x-3x the money) so it's not as you're trying to turn physics around with this one.

Also, people still forget that not every upgrade or conclusion applies universally. Non-DCC standard Superb is admittedly the worst of the pack. L&K (DCC) handles better and Sportline DCC even slightly better than the L&K. You then have the springs upgrade option which might just be enough for most drivers on DCC cars exploiting the firmer adaptive mode, but as has been seen won't be able to save the game on non-DCC cars that most definitely should be looking into Koni FSD or Bilstein B6 to transform the ride for the (much) better, at a cost which compares to a new set of tires.

The rest on why/what for it was designed are more philosophising than an actual effort to get to a solution (not that I mind that). On mine, after the Eibachs and rear arb went on on my Sportine DCC they have clearly taken it up a level and brought it close but not exactly to the level of my previous Golf GTI but at least I have fully de-crypted the weaknesses of stock suspension and where I should go next If I really long for further handling improvement and if I keep the car longer.

Edited 19 October, 2020 by newbie69

[UndertheRadar]

Maybe need to start a thread to hear from folks who have changed their suspension units, so we can have all the opinions from those that have done it for DCC and non DCC in the one place. So people fed up with the banging and carrying on, who are thinking of sorting their own out can see who’s changed what, and what with, and get first hand experience of the results. I’ll start one soon if it’s not done, but I need to feed the kids first. 😂

[Macsamillion]

Well some good posts here, which confirm a fewthings for me. I'm not alone in my issue. Some are expecting sports car handling when really its a big comfy saloon with a cracking engine. Some people probably don't drive it that way as that's not what they bought the car for. The only. Way forward is to compare what solutions people have tried and get their opinions.  Really enjoyed reading though. I might also try and upload the link to the section of road near me. 50-60mph and the undulating surface causes the front end to bang like I have drove over a pothole. 

[KKAFC]

First post as Superb 280 owner. Had it a year after owning a Mk2 Octavia VRS. I find even in Sport mode that some dips on the road really make it bounce (quite badly). There is one dip on my daily route that the car is almost pulling wheelie 🤯 Its on standard 19s and has DCC btw. Is there Eibach options for these? Cheers in advance

[newbie69]

1 minute ago, KKAFC said:

First post as Superb 280 owner. Had it a year after owning a Mk2 Octavia VRS. I find even in Sport mode that some dips on the road really make it bounce (quite badly). There is one dip on my daily route that the car is almost pulling wheelie 🤯 Its on standard 19s and has DCC btw. Is there Eibach options for these? Cheers in advance

Sportline or L&K?

[xman]

Mentioned in another thread, Bilstein now have B6 DCC compatible shocks available for the Superb.

 

Edited 19 October, 2020 by xman

[KKAFC]

12 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

Sportline or L&K?

Sportline mate. 

[newbie69]

7 minutes ago, KKAFC said:

Sportline mate. 

Cheers. I put Eibach pro-kit springs on my Sportline DCC this summer and while it's still not perfect there's noticeable improvement compared to stock, for the price it costs I would definitely recommend them as a first step especially if you can fit them yourself. You can read about in the links I have below under my signature.

However, when I did this there were no DCC compatible shocks and I would like to retain  the ride adjustability so I didn't even consider anything more radical. Recently Bilstein released their renown B6 DampTronic series as Superb-compatible and given that I come from cars I was tracking I am very very tempted to have a go at them, given that they cost little over 1000EUR and all other DCC compatible coilovers are closer to 1800+EUR.

That been said, I reckon on a Sportline DCC like yours Eibachs are going to provide all the improvement the average driver is after.

Edited 19 October, 2020 by newbie69

[KKAFC]

16 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

Cheers. I put Eibach pro-kit springs on my Sportline DCC this summer and while it's still not perfect there's noticeable improvement compared to stock, for the price it costs I would definitely recommend them as a first step especially if you can fit them yourself. You can read about in the links I have below under my signature.

However, when I did this there were no DCC compatible shocks and I would like to retain  the ride adjustability so I didn't even consider anything more radical. Recently Bilstein released their renown B6 DampTronic series as Superb-compatible and given that I come from cars I was tracking I am very very tempted to have a go at them, given that they cost little over 1000EUR and all other DCC compatible coilovers are closer to 1800+EUR.

That been said, I reckon on a Sportline DCC like yours Eibachs are going to provide all the improvement the average driver is after.

Thanks for info. Was just reading through your detailed guide. Mine is currently completely standard but do have plans for it in the near future. 

[newbie69]

4 minutes ago, KKAFC said:

Thanks for info. Was just reading through your detailed guide. Mine is currently completely standard but do have plans for it in the near future. 

 

Brave colour! Stands out for sure in that ocean of grey and silver (mine is grey lol). The best thing about this car apart from the great underpinnings is it's on a platform where everything is possible and off-the-shelf no matter if you plan on turning it into a drag weapon or a track car.

PS. Re-reading my post above now and I realized "average" driver might have a negative meaning in English, In my native language the same term is used to refer to the statistical mean of some distribution and I was referring to exactly that, in terms of priorities and requirements, not about driving skills or anything like that!

[J.R.]

This thread would suggest that the worst thing about this executive sized car is that it is on the same common platform  as the VW Golf.

 

You can only do so much by varying spring & damper rates & if you look at the part numbers the same items are used across all the models, the two vehicles at the extreme ends of the range really should not be sharing the same suspension set up.