ex-lease and service plan Scout - any problems to look out for?

[rangor_g]

Hello Octavia experts,

My trusty 15 year old avensis has finally got to the state of not worth me repairing it. :(

I'm going car shopping tomorrow and will be test driving two octavia scouts, both 2015, 148 BHP, one with about 80K miles, the other about 90K.

I know one is an ex-lease, I'm guessing the other could be (1 previous owner).

 

What should I be looking out for?

Service records? One car was on some lease service plan, but I don't know if this is a good thing or bad.

What about Haldex oil, filter, ring replacements?

Mass fly-wheel? One of the cars I'm looking at had a new duel mass flywheel in 2019

 

If anyone has some advice or can point me where to read what to look out for that would be great.

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

Condition condition condition, first check tyres, brake discs, windscreen for chips. That takes only minutes.

Then start on the rest of the car, look at the spare wheel. 

Paperwork, and any records. 

Were there advisories on the MOT's?

 

It will be 1 previous registered keeper, no idea how many drivers used that car if a fleet vehicle, or how many Unregistered keepers while 'the car has been In trade'.

 

You need to see a service history showing what was done and when, invoices / receipts.

You want to check any Warranty Work / History.

a FMDSH is not enough as that can be a history of not much.

 

Service Plans do not usually include the Haldex @ 3 years(  DSG oil @ 40,000 miles when there is a DSG)  or Brake Fluid change at 3 years.

Edited 4 December, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[rangor_g]

Hi e-roottoot

 

Many thanks for the tips. I saw and test drove the two cars yesterday. Gave them a thorough (layman's) inspection.

Both seem good, apart from a glaring hole in the service history of both cars.

 

First car:

ex-lease Lease Plan Uk ltd. I saw the paperwork of the servicing.

The usual stuff done, including oil change on haldex at 58K miles in 2018. There's a note about recall 90k1, but I'm not sure what that is.

But no evidence of servicing since 2018. No evidence that the cambelt and water pump has been done. Dual mass fly wheel replaced in 2019.

There are a few small chips on the bonnet that have rust showing, and a couple more with visible metal (no rust)

I found tiny rust spots on the roof. The rust can be wiped off, but a minuscule spot remained in the centre.

Brake discs had quite a bit of corrosion on the outer edges.

 

Second car:

Previous owner was a private owner.

According to the sales garage the service history is all digital and they can't show me any details, just give me dates of servicing. Is this normal? Why can't they print out the service record for me?

It was serviced by Skoda at 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018. In 2020 the sales garage gave it a check and put in new oil, filters (pollen, oil, diesel).

After viewing the car I went to speak with Skoda to ask if they can give me more info on the car's service history. They were very helpful. They have no record of a service between 2018 and now (around 30K miles). No evidence of a cambelt and water pump change.

So unless the sales garage can provide evidence that the car was serviced in 2019 or 2020, and that the cambelt and water pump was done, I have to assume it wasn't.

 

[PetrolDave]

9 minutes ago, rangor_g said:

According to the sales garage the service history is all digital and they can't show me any details, just give me dates of servicing. Is this normal? Why can't they print out the service record for me?

Some dealers claim it would be a breach of the previous owners confidentiality - but what's the difference between showing you paper service records and showing you digital service records? In my book there is no difference, but ...

[rangor_g]

Yeah it does seem a bit silly. More likely just an excuse to share as little information as possible with the buyer. I'll ask again. I'm not buying a car without seeing its service history.

[Defenderben]

GDPR....they threw away all my receipts etc that I handed them when I sold a car back to the main dealer.

It had my name/address on etc and said they would of loved to pass this on but not anymore, under the GDPR rules.

[rangor_g]

crazy. somebody somewhere has not thought this through....

[Ootohere]

Some say it breaches Data Protection to show the Name of the Technician that signed off the work or the sales person that signed in and out the car.

Because held on a computer.

 

But whatever crap it is for a Car Owner / Driver to know their car is safe, so the Data Protection could mean 'Unsafe cars incorrectly serviced or maintained on the road.'

 

You are asking for the Service & Maintenance/ Warranty information, work done and part numbers, 

not some previous owners name , address or any details from their paperwork.  So not a print out of their stuff.

 

Anyhow,  if no full Service History available just assume you need to do the stuff required and haggle the price accordingly.

If the Trader / Dealer says they will do the work as they get it cheaper, just thank them and say take the cost they would pay for the work off the car as you can find a trusted mechanic that is cheap.

Edited 6 December, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[varaderoguy]

5 hours ago, rangor_g said:

Hi e-roottoot

 

Many thanks for the tips. I saw and test drove the two cars yesterday. Gave them a thorough (layman's) inspection.

Both seem good, apart from a glaring hole in the service history of both cars.

 

First car:

ex-lease Lease Plan Uk ltd. I saw the paperwork of the servicing.

The usual stuff done, including oil change on haldex at 58K miles in 2018. There's a note about recall 90k1, but I'm not sure what that is.

But no evidence of servicing since 2018. No evidence that the cambelt and water pump has been done. Dual mass fly wheel replaced in 2019.

There are a few small chips on the bonnet that have rust showing, and a couple more with visible metal (no rust)

I found tiny rust spots on the roof. The rust can be wiped off, but a minuscule spot remained in the centre.

Brake discs had quite a bit of corrosion on the outer edges.

 

Second car:

Previous owner was a private owner.

According to the sales garage the service history is all digital and they can't show me any details, just give me dates of servicing. Is this normal? Why can't they print out the service record for me?

It was serviced by Skoda at 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018. In 2020 the sales garage gave it a check and put in new oil, filters (pollen, oil, diesel).

After viewing the car I went to speak with Skoda to ask if they can give me more info on the car's service history. They were very helpful. They have no record of a service between 2018 and now (around 30K miles). No evidence of a cambelt and water pump change.

So unless the sales garage can provide evidence that the car was serviced in 2019 or 2020, and that the cambelt and water pump was done, I have to assume it wasn't.

 

I would ask for a discount of around £500 odd pounds on either vehicle.  Cambelts and Water Pumps have been known to continue to work for almost double their scheduled mileage, but it will need to be done ASAP.  The failing waterpumps were really only an issue on non-FL MK3's - Skoda/VW got its act together after that point.  Look at the coolant bottle and see what the levels are - and what colour the coolant is (and whether it has the dreaded Mit-Silicone label on it too (cos that will need to be replaced too).

I think you need to have a good look at each car - look at the general condition; look under the bonnet, in the boot - look at the plastics etc and just get a feeling on how badly or otherwise the car has been abused.  I try to think that there are some leased-car owners who do ~try~ to look after their vehicles whilst in their care; however, if my 2017 VRS was anything to go by, that is a shocking No.

 

Re: Scout - If it is a manual, take it for a test drive and find a quiet downhill road - and engage Off-Road mode - and see if Hill-Descent works.  If you get a "bang-bang-bang" noise when Hill Descent tries to work, walk away - my old Scout had those problems.  The manual gearboxes on the Scouts non-FL were also knotchy (between 1st and 2nd).  A gearbox oil change will fix those problems.

[weyland]

Don't be put off by lease cars, they are generally one driver company cars and if it had a fleet maintenance package it will have had everything it needed - as the driver isn't paying for the maintenance it normally goes to the main dealer for every last little thing to be sorted.

[Ootohere]

Lease to an individual and lease to a fleet are rather different, but no matter as you do want the one with the Service History of stuff done and not just the Service History of being into a Main Dealership with Oil & Filter changes and not much else before handed back and end of lease and not Serviced to Manufacturers Recommendations even if on a Service Plan.

[rangor_g]

Thanks for your input everyone. Really helpful.

The condition of both cars looks pretty good, especially the second one i viewed.

Regarding engaging Off-Road Mode, i noticed that the first car i test drove did have this option, but the second car did not. The only drive modes available were eco, normal, and sport (I think), and then custom.

Both cars are 2015 plates, but presumably the one without the Off-Road mode is slightly older and just before that option was added.

 

Anyone know if an update can get the Off-Road mode added or if it is worth it?

 

 

[varaderoguy]

I think it can be enabled at a push. However, you might need it enabling via an FEC (Feature code) from a Skoda Dealer.

[ScoutCJB]

On 06/12/2020 at 09:30, rangor_g said:

 

First car:

ex-lease Lease Plan Uk ltd. I saw the paperwork of the servicing.

The usual stuff done, including oil change on haldex at 58K miles in 2018. There's a note about recall 90k1, but I'm not sure what that is.

But no evidence of servicing since 2018. No evidence that the cambelt and water pump has been done. Dual mass fly wheel replaced in 2019.

There are a few small chips on the bonnet that have rust showing, and a couple more with visible metal (no rust)

I found tiny rust spots on the roof. The rust can be wiped off, but a minuscule spot remained in the centre.

Brake discs had quite a bit of corrosion on the outer edges.

 

Second car:

Previous owner was a private owner.

According to the sales garage the service history is all digital and they can't show me any details, just give me dates of servicing. Is this normal? Why can't they print out the service record for me?

It was serviced by Skoda at 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018. In 2020 the sales garage gave it a check and put in new oil, filters (pollen, oil, diesel).

After viewing the car I went to speak with Skoda to ask if they can give me more info on the car's service history. They were very helpful. They have no record of a service between 2018 and now (around 30K miles). No evidence of a cambelt and water pump change.

So unless the sales garage can provide evidence that the car was serviced in 2019 or 2020, and that the cambelt and water pump was done, I have to assume it wasn't.

 

 

Hi Rangor-R

 

Your much in the same predicament I was a few years ago.  I was looking at an ex-lease car belonging to a national company, full history but all digital.  The dealer did print it out but it was just dates and some part numbers, essentially full Skoda standard history.  I googled it all there and then and came to conclusion it was all correct but no evidence of Haldex change and it was on 75K.  The garage said it would have been done but i was sure it wasn't.  I don't think you put mileage on either but I wouldn't have expected Cambelt/water pump unless it had done the appropriate mileage which I thought was 130k (been told by 2 separate independent specialists all though that doesn't mean its gospel!).  Slightly corroded rear discs aren't a big issue as long as functional as mine were.  My DMF was on its way at about 134k so that's a potential future issue crossed out on the first one.

 

As for the used - Yes of course you want proof of missing history, trouble is with GDPR that if there were receipts with info on, the previous owner may have binned them.  You'd like to think the garage would have provided them if they had them but cut previous owners details out.  Based on this on paper between the 2 I would lean towards the first one. 

 

My ex - lease fortunately came with a stellar history including tyre invoices, wiper blade receipts etc and all to the same person/address.  After buying I had the haldex done by an Audi specialist who ive used for years now and at 123k car was in for a new aircon compressor so I had cambelt/water pump done as well.  Mine was manual and was always notchy between 1st/2nd when weather was around freezing from startup but as long as you changed gear slowly it wasn't an issue and after a few mins of running it always smoothed out.

 

On 06/12/2020 at 18:43, weyland said:

Don't be put off by lease cars, they are generally one driver company cars and if it had a fleet maintenance package it will have had everything it needed - as the driver isn't paying for the maintenance it normally goes to the main dealer for every last little thing to be sorted.

 

+1  Mine was a company lease as i saw the name in some of the documentation however all the Kwik-Fit invoices were in the same person name.  It had been well looked after and was main dealer everything bar the tyres / wiper blades which were all Kwik-fit.

 

On 07/12/2020 at 09:17, rangor_g said:

Thanks for your input everyone. Really helpful.

The condition of both cars looks pretty good, especially the second one i viewed.

Regarding engaging Off-Road Mode, i noticed that the first car i test drove did have this option, but the second car did not. The only drive modes available were eco, normal, and sport (I think), and then custom.

Both cars are 2015 plates, but presumably the one without the Off-Road mode is slightly older and just before that option was added.

 

Anyone know if an update can get the Off-Road mode added or if it is worth it?

 

 

 

I wasn't aware that you could.  The Off Road button when pressed gives you hill decent control, adapts the ABS so it locks up for longer to create a wedge when breaking on loose surfaces and changes the throttle so that its less responsive allowing you to climb with more control.

 

[rangor_g]

An update:

first car. Ex-lease car. They have dropped the price a bit, and have offered to do the cambelt and water pump before I buy it, but they would then add some of the cost of that back on. Basically it works out that they knocked off £600 from the orginal price, then add another £200 to do the cambelt and water pump. Pretty good deal I think.

Cons: rusted chips on the bonnet and roof, fairly corroded outer edge of disk brakes, missing spare wheel, I'm less keen on the colour.

Pros: has Off-road mode, more details in service record.

 

Second car. 1 private owner. They have agreed to do the cambelt and water pump before selling to me, included in the price.

Cons: No Off-Road mode, serviced history only has dates and that it was done by Skoda up to 2020. Bit of a large gap in servicing between 2018 and 2020 which is 30K miles.

Pros: I prefer the colour of this one, the body work is in better condition, has a spare wheel, brakes have much less corrosion on outer edges.

 

After negotiating with the sellers both cars are now at hte same price and include new cambelt and water pump. both come with 3 month warranty. Both 2015 (although 1st car slightly newer as has Off-Road mode), same mileage.

 

 

[Gaz]

What's the rust on the roof and where is it?  If it's anything other than easily repaired stone chips, that'd bother me.

 

Sounds like the off-road functionality is more important to you than colour choice, all others things being equal?

 

Gaz

[rangor_g]

Thanks ScoutCJB. Sounds like a great purchase.

The first car I looked I found a print out of the service history in the glove box, which is I think the only way i got to see it. The sales guy said he normally removes these things.

As i'd already seen it he was happy for me to look at it again in more detail. I'm not sure he would have been so forthcoming if i hadn't already seen a copy in the glovebox.

[ScoutCJB]

What are the colours of both.

 

For me rusty brakes i wouldnt be fussed about as I generally replace them after buying anyway.

 

Stone chips on the bonnet are to be expected, rust less so - how bad is it, any pics - is it much.  Is it indicative of a potential front end and then a poor repair.  Did you look for overspray, under bonnet, round doors etc, were all relevant labels in correct place under bonnet (google if unsure or I'll see if i have one of mine), did it have a bonnet carpet/liner and did panels line up.  Were both headlights the same, front and rear plates match( if they hadnt been replaced by retailing dealer etc) ... There are sometimes some easy giveaways that are worth looking out for.  Not suggested its been damaged, just double check.  My Scout had a tiny spot of rust on roof by window where I suspect someone had caught it when replacing the windscreen at a guess - It didnt go under the window line so I flatted it and treated it, job done.

 

Offroad button isn't be all and end all although I found it very handy in the snow a few years back going up and down untreated hills.

 

Colour/Spec ..... Thats a different story.  I decided it had to be Denim Blue with Grey a 2nd choice and didnt look at anything else. I went to see a few blue ones but werent happy with them - holding out I got virtually everything I wanted with bigger Nav screen, winter pack, Kessy (but not Xenons - we cant have everything!), in great condition with full history. 

 

Not many people buy this time of year in run up to Christmas, along with Covid you probably have them in your hands - work it to your advantage

 

So whats mileage / colour / spec of both

 

[rangor_g]

Mileage on both is around 90K miles

Colour of first is white (or "candy" according to skoda), second is blue.

Spec on both seems to be about the same as far as i can tell. Differences are:

white has cage between boot and back seat, off-road mode, some pump thing instead of a spare wheel and empty spaces where some other pieces of wheel repair bits should be

Blue has spare wheel under floor in boot.

 

The white one with rust on the bonnet there are small bits around 3 mm x  1mm (2 or 3 of those), plus lots of tiny specs on the roof. These are like pin pricks. There is also some scrapping visible on the pillars between the passenger side windows. Looks like its been driven a bit close to some tough hedges. There's moss and algae on some of the joins between metal and rubber trim, also around the boot hinges. It seems like it has been driving much for a while.

The body work on the blue is excellent, without any noticable marks other than a couple of small chips on the bonnet which haven't gone through the colour layer.

 

I'm in no major rush to buy, but its hard to think why not buy one of these cars as both seem good value. There are not that many scouts for sale. I could wait, but may not find a better option.

[Ootohere]

Check the windscreen very closely.

You are looking for chips or tiny chips that would annoy in the sunlight.

Either cars screen could be a replacement anyway.

((but you do not want to have an accident and need to get a new screen soon after getting a used car, like someone breaking it on purpose by mistake to get a new one.)

[Gaz]

21 minutes ago, rangor_g said:

... plus lots of tiny specs on the roof. These are like pin pricks.

 

As an armchair observer, this would be enough to take the white one off any shortlist I had.

 

G

[rangor_g]

White one with the rust chips has had a new windscreen at some point. I spotted it wasn't original when looking around the car, and on the MOT history shows it failed due to windscreen a couple of years ago.

[ScoutCJB]

50 minutes ago, Gaz_ said:

 

As an armchair observer, this would be enough to take the white one off any shortlist I had.

 

G

 

+1 on that, i've also known some of those pin pricks to be actual paint issues / defects. 

 

Moss and algae can be tree fallout if its been parked under trees regularly and the pillars can get scratched very easily and as long as there not ridges you can get your nails in would buff out with a machine polisher.

Mine had a pump instead of spare so i transferred the spare and insert from my old car to it.

[OldBoyScout]

Cars first registered before September 2015 would probably be Euro 5 and may or may not have received the so-called fix for Dieselgate. Cars from September 2015 (65 plate) were required to be Euro 6 so not included in the emissions scandal. Euro diesel 6 cars comply with the ULEZ (London Ultra Low Emission Zone) whereas Euro 5 diesels do not. It is possible that the earlier car is Euro 5 and the later car is Euro 6.

 

 

[rangor_g]

Good point OBS.

Is there any way to find out online from number plate alone?

 

The HPI checker i used gave me engine number, and i can see CO2 emissions, but nothing on ULEZ. It's a major concern for me as I don't plan to drive into london any time soon. But if the same rules start being applied to other cities in future then might become a bit more important.

 

I was also wondering how serious the 'mit-silikan' silicone tea bag issue is for Skodas. I didn't know about it when i went to see the cars so did not check for the stamp on the reservoir.