Heated Drivers seat mat burnt out

[Alank51]

Has anyone had a similar problem under warranty claim?

 

3 months ago I bought a 2017 Octavia Scout with just over 32000 miles on the clock. First time of turning on heated driver’s seat backrest worked fine but base cushion nothing. Diagnosed by Skoda Dealer as burnt out mat. Claim under Approved Used Warranty was rejected as the seat mat has been classified as trim. Surely it should be classified as electrical equipment and not trim? I always considered seat trim to be the covering. Cost of replacing seat mat £500 plus.

[john999boy]

Topic moved.

[Alank51]

Thank you I am new so don’t know my way around yet.

[classic]

I think you’d have to argue it directly with Skoda UK warranty department.

It’s an electronic component that has failed, but the approved used warranty specifically excludes trim and seats. What it does cover is worded vaguely in a couple of lines then a whole page of specific exclusions and caveats about wear due to age & mileage.

 

APPROVED WARRANTY COVER WORDING
What is covered
Your ŠKODA Approved Used Warranty covers almost all mechanical and electrical components on your vehicle, subject to the conditions detailed later
in this section and the maximum claim limit. There are some components, such as service items, which are specifically not covered and these are listed in detail below.
What is not covered
Whilst you have a high level of Warranty cover, there are certain items which this Warranty specifically does not cover.
Bodywork, paintwork, body component (including encased aerials, gas struts, sunroof assemblies, soft top roofs, and seat frames, strikers, hinges or any component which may require adjustment from time to time).
Interior trim including seats, seat belts and pre-tensioners.

 

+ A long list of other stuff that I haven’t pasted.....

Like most warranties, the suggestion during the purchase process is that the warranty covers everything, but the reality is that it actually covers very little.

Edited 17 January, 2021 by classic

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Did you buy it from a Skoda main dealer?

 

[octavia5]

Could be cheaper to find a seat from a scrappy or Ebay and fit it yourself if they will not budge on the warranty. Skoda UK might be persuaded to offer some goodwill as you bought from a dealer and only had the car a few months

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Personally I'd be asking the dealer who you purchased it from to be covering the cost of the repair if you've only had it 3 months. If they won't claim any responsibility for it then skoda customer care will probably help out. 

[Alank51]

Thank you. Yes, I did read the booklet and saw the exclusions. I thought as there was an explicit mention of the seat frame and then reference to seat trim with no exclusion of the heated seat pad it was worth seeing whether Skoda would accept it as electronic equipment as opposed to trim. In reality it is a cynical use of the grey area of wording and I am in the process of arguing it with them. So perhaps I am being premature in suggesting they will reject an appeal against their initial decision.

 

I did buy it from a main dealers and that may become an option to chase if necessary. To be honest it has become a matter of principle as much as anything else that grey areas in wording are always used to the detriment of the customer. 
 

My annoyance was exacerbated by on Christmas Eve some kind hearted soul with a tow hitch reversing into the front grille and in the spirit of Christmas had driven off. To find that it is a complete bumper replacement or bumper off and plastic weld a new grille has not put me in the frame of mind to accept nit picking over wording. 

Thank you everyone for your comments/ suggestions.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

From a warranty perspective the seat heating pad is an electrical item that has failed in an electrical manner. Be that an open circuit or resistive fault within the pad. I dare say it may have even logged a fault code.

 

It's not considered a trim by any means but it is part of the seat, which that policy excludes.

[Alank51]

Thanks again for all the advice and interpretations.

[Ootohere]

If it becomes common on 3 to 4 year old cars it will become a Safety Critical recall matter so maybe Skoda UK need to think on.  They got away with the very dangerous failures with Mk 2 Fabias and just doing a Service Campaign which left dangerous cars with owners. 

[Alank51]

Unfortunately these days the avoidance of responsibility is all too common until the point of disaster is reached. In the scheme of things my complaint is minuscule but it is the principle. Skoda refused to accept that the fault was electrical and didn’t exclude it on the basis of it being the seat. They rejected it in their own words as “trim” which as James says it is certainly not.

 

 

 

 

[classic]

34 minutes ago, Alank51 said:

Unfortunately these days the avoidance of responsibility is all too common until the point of disaster is reached. In the scheme of things my complaint is minuscule but it is the principle. Skoda refused to accept that the fault was electrical and didn’t exclude it on the basis of it being the seat. They rejected it in their own words as “trim” which as James says it is certainly not.

 

 

 

 

Which is why I would have a try debating it with Skoda. There’s nothing to lose. It’s not the actual seat, there’s no fault with that, or an item of trim. It’s an electronic component within a seat. You aren’t claiming for a seat (which is excluded), you need an electric heater, which happens to be situated within a seat. The wording of the warranty is ambiguous, it says almost all mechanical and electrical are covered then describes a large number of items that aren’t covered, therefore “almost all” can’t actually be covered. I’d ask them that if it had a faulty airbag in a seat would that be covered ? Or if it had electric memory seats would the mechanics and electronics of that also not be covered ?

Edited 17 January, 2021 by classic

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, e-Roottoot said:

If it becomes common on 3 to 4 year old cars it will become a Safety Critical recall matter so maybe Skoda UK need to think on.  They got away with the very dangerous failures with Mk 2 Fabias and just doing a Service Campaign which left dangerous cars with owners. 

 

I can't see that happening, in what way do you consider the failure to keep butt cheeks warm could be a safety risk?

 

I bet if the heated screens started failing there would not be a recall and they would be refusing warranty claims because the glass is excluded.

[Ootohere]

@J.R.  If someones arse is on the heated screen then they will other things on their mind.

 

Head for thinking, feet for dancing and if people want hot pants they would buy some.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/417427-heated-seats-a-burning-issue

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/334218-vrs-heated-seats-recall

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 January, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Phil-E]

If there's no explicit exclusion of the seat heaters (since they are technically a separate entity to the seats as the pads and wiring harness etc are available as separate parts) then it should be covered.

 

This was a very common issue on my previous car (Saab 9-3).

 

My heated seat was getting very hot on one side. And then stopped working.

 

The element had burnt out and melted the seat inside. Thankfully I was able to replace the heater pad.

 

Hope you get it sorted.

[Roller89]

A gentle reminder about the Consumer Rights Act 2015 could be in order, if it is less than 6 months since you bought it, the fault is presumed to have existed at the point of sale, unless the seller can prove otherwise. 

 

Similarly, no private individual buys a car from a trader at around 3 years old with a warranty on it and then expects a £500 bill to be presented to them within 3 months.

 

Whilst the seat cover and structure isn't covered, you could argue that the mat is an electrical component that is housed within the seat structure, but ultimately it is a separate component that is part of the HVAC system in the vehicle - which I would expect is covered under the warranty. 

[J.R.]

Well if you complain  that the seat heater has stopped working then the fault cannot be presumed to have existed when you first bought the car, heating elements will in many cases eventually fail just like a light bulb, the constant flexing will fatigue the element where it passes from one cushion to another, I cannot see anyone upholding a case that a used car dealer should be liable for a headlamb bumb failing after 2 months yet that is critical to the cars safe functioning, a heated seat isn't ts a nice to have extra.

 

But then we live in a world where a new car is rejected because someone cannot lock and unlock the doors and do whatever else it is they want to do from their mobile phone.

[J.R.]

3 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

@J.R.  If someones arse is on the heated screen then they will other things on their mind.

 

Head for thinking, feet for dancing and if people want hot pants they would buy some.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/417427-heated-seats-a-burning-issue

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/334218-vrs-heated-seats-recall

 

 

I stand corrected, I had not realised that the failure mode involved burning, I had assumed that the problem was simply one of having cold buttocks like the rest of us plebs!

 

Come to think of it I had an electric blanket fail that way, burnt a small hole through the mattress protector and fitted sheet and I then looked in the mirror and found a burn on my shoulder! I had not felt anything and can not have had an electric shock as the disjoncteur différentiel had not tripped.

[Ecomatt]

You are covered under the Consumer Rights Act of 2015. A car should expect to be fit for purpose for 6 months from the point of sale. It is law and the dealer has to be given one chance to repair it. Equally as stated above it is an electrical item amd not trim so it should get fixed either way.

Speak with the service manager and see what he/she says. If they still say it is a trim. Ask where they got that information from and show you evidence of it.  Else speak with the dealer principal and see what he/she says about it. Most are really good when you mention the CRA 2015. I have in the past and never had an issue.

Edited 18 January, 2021 by Ecomatt

[J.R.]

"A car with faults is not a faulty car"

 

Although there is no specific legal description, a faulty used car is generally considered to be a car that is not roadworthy and/or is not safe. Secondary or more minor issues, like a broken stereo or paintwork problems, are generally not acceptable reasons to reject a car under the Consumer Rights Act.

 

On what basis do you believe that a used car dealer is responsable for faults occuring up to 6 months?

 

I am fairly certain that there is no law that states" A car should expect to be fit for purpose for 6 months from the point of sale" but please correct me if I am wrong, I presume that you meant to write "should be expected to be........"

[Ecomatt]

11 hours ago, J.R. said:

"A car with faults is not a faulty car"

 

Although there is no specific legal description, a faulty used car is generally considered to be a car that is not roadworthy and/or is not safe. Secondary or more minor issues, like a broken stereo or paintwork problems, are generally not acceptable reasons to reject a car under the Consumer Rights Act.

 

On what basis do you believe that a used car dealer is responsable for faults occuring up to 6 months?

 

I am fairly certain that there is no law that states" A car should expect to be fit for purpose for 6 months from the point of sale" but please correct me if I am wrong, I presume that you meant to write "should be expected to be........"

The law is the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Any used car is covered for 6 months despite what any garage says or warranty. I had all my glow plugs changed after 5 months of ownership under that act. The garages know it very well but hope the customer doesn't to avoid repairing the car. Also had a heated windscreen go faulty within the 6 months on another car and had that changed under the CRA 2015.

A car must be fit for purpose for 6 months from the date of purchase. If the garage faila to repair the car you can take then to court over it. It is a very simple process. I also work in the legal world so know it very well.

 

Says more here and saves my fingers typing

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

 

[J.R.]

Thanks, that seems quite unequivocal, everything else I read seemed wishy washy.

[ords]

12 hours ago, Ecomatt said:

The law is the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Any used car is covered for 6 months despite what any garage says or warranty. I had all my glow plugs changed after 5 months of ownership under that act. The garages know it very well but hope the customer doesn't to avoid repairing the car. Also had a heated windscreen go faulty within the 6 months on another car and had that changed under the CRA 2015.

A car must be fit for purpose for 6 months from the date of purchase. If the garage faila to repair the car you can take then to court over it. It is a very simple process. I also work in the legal world so know it very well.

 

Says more here and saves my fingers typing

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

 

I think you're lucky to get the glow plugs & heated windscreen changed. 

 

Looking at the wording in the link you posted, it says "It’s assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise"

 

Presumably the glow plugs & windscreen were working at the time of purchase.

[Ecomatt]

1 minute ago, ords said:

I think you're lucky to get the glow plugs & heated windscreen changed. 

 

Looking at the wording in the link you posted, it says "It’s assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise"

 

Presumably the glow plugs & windscreen were working at the time of purchase.

They were but what cannot be proven is that they may have been failing/faulting at the time of purchase. The CRA 2015 was made to give more power to the buyer rather than business. With the old act it was in favour of business as the buyer had to prove the fault. Basically now anything you buy should be fit for purpose and the expectation is that it will last 6 months from the date of purchase.