Very smooth DSG gears switching after VCDS Adaptation

[fr1nklyn]

Hey guys,

 

Just wanted to share some of my positive experience with the 6 speed DSG DQ250.

I wasn’t happy with the DSG behavior on my Octy because it was jerky between 2nd and 3rd and vise versa. And also between 1st and 2nd with light throttle.

So I decided to check the DSG oil by adding 1liter and also check for leaks from the DSG filter seal due to some oil on the transmission which I’ve noticed while changing the engine oil few months ago. The filter cap seal wasn’t leaking, but I was there already and added a liter oil, so changed seal and the filter as well.

After the excess oil was drained when the fluid reached 35 degrees, I decided to do some DSG Adaptation a bit different from the one described in Ross-Tech site. I saw it in YT for Golf 7 R.. 

1/ Auto Trans > Basic Settings

- Reset All Adaptation Values

- Basic settings for transmission

- Calibration of Synchro-points

- Start double-clutch fast adaptation

2/ Then I drove the car in tiptronic(manual) mode on odd and then even gears by pressing the gear selector twice quickly: 1 - 3 - 5 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 1. Did this few times.

3/ After this procedure, I switched to auto mode(D) and now the transmission is so much better - not jerky at all, upshifting and downshifting much better.

 

Some people report that after some time their gearbox returns back its bad behavior and they have to re-adapt the gearbox. I don’t know how long it will remain like that, but I don’t mind doing the adaptation every 3-4 months - it takes 5 mins..

 

[varaderoguy]

I would also add that if you also chuck in the Module 44 Driving Mode mod to make it direct drive acceleration instead of time based acceleration then it will be an even smoother drive....just my 5 pence worth.

I've just done it on my DQ250 Boxed VRS and it now drives like a dream. I also had done the DSG recalibration (the dealer did it) but now I know how to do it at home!

[Gerrycan]

Sounds like the 'learning to adapt to a driver' feature is a bit too smart for its own good.

I had a casual pre-covid job where I drove hundreds of customer's vehicles (over relatively short distances of up to 5km) and the variation between like models could be surprisingly large.

To be honest I was not that impressed with most autos I drove, even luxury brands. I always preferred the manuals (especially the Mustang V8/manual combination which just seduced me)

There was one standout car, a simple brand new Mk7 Golf with 1.4tsi and 7 speed dry DSG. It was just so incredibly smooth, and changed imperceptibly at the perfect revs (for me) I could not believe how good it was relative to others I had driven.

A colleague drove it and agreed it was unusually good.

Funnily enough the car I drove immediately after was a Tesla S, with no gears, and I was a bit less 'wowed' than I thought I would be because the Golf made that much impact.

 

[Ecomatt]

I do this on obdeleven. I have never bothered with the adaption drive as the gearbox will run the tests when you drive normally in D. Doing the adaption run just speeds up the process.

Also I looked into the direct drive mode for the throttle.  All it does is put the throttle into sport mode. So if you have a  profile switchover button you can just leave it in sport.

[paulski]

Are any of the posters here TDI's with any other mods such as mapped engines or Dsg remaps or are they all stock?

 

 I've the 150bhp 2.0 TDI and did find transition from a manual to the Dsg "challenging" and having to feather the throttle to the right position to get it in the right gear when approaching roundabouts/junctions. Mines got a bit clunky of late,  so will be getting some vcds time in this week to try this. 

 

I'm still not sure I've really sussed out how to drive it as smoothly as it can be after two years of ownership,  despite reading posts here and other forums. 

Edited 20 July, 2021 by paulski

[fr1nklyn]

@varaderoguy Thanks a lot. I've read about this setting in one of your posts for Fabia 1.2 TSI, but I forgot to try it on the Octy. But I'll do it for sure.

 

@Gerrycan The whole idea of "learning to adapt to a driver" is completely wrong. People drive in a different way depending on the situation they are in or road conditions, or even their mood. If we were robots that adaptation idea would fit us perfectly, but I for example, use to drive fast very early in the morning when there are almost no cars on the road, I drive slowly when it's wet or icy, and I like to keep the revs high(our of the turbo lag) when I'm on the highway in order to get that instant throttle response as I want. When DSG adapts to my "driving style" my reactions have to be different in these three situations, e.g. I have to press the gas pedal harder when I want to keep the revs higher.

 

@Ecomatt Unfortunately I don't have the profile switchover button. I know that it does pretty good job, especially when you are in a traffic jam and you want to get away from the "saving fuel" behavior of the transmission and keep the revs a bit higher.

I have a friend of mine with MK3 VRS TSI who tested it on a roundabout and the results were pretty good - in sport, car didn't switch to 4th gear when he entered in it with ~60km/h; in eco/normal(don't remember exactly), car switched to 4th gear, keeping the revs really low and saving fuel, which also made the car more unstable.

Edited 20 July, 2021 by fr1nklyn

[Ootohere]

It is emitting less emissions under unrealistic tests like the WLTP, RDE & RDE2 that has the engine and gearbox management as it is.

Consuming less fuel can mean emitting less pollution.  Maybe not actually as people drive the cars in the real world though, and how they want the car to drive.

[Gerrycan]

12 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

It is emitting less emissions under unrealistic tests like the WLTP, RDE & RDE2 that has the engine and gearbox management as it is.

Consuming less fuel can mean emitting less pollution.  Maybe not actually as people drive the cars in the real world though, and how they want the car to drive.

I'm not sure how what you are saying ties in with the point of this thread where the OP reset the gearbox adaptations (back to factory spec?) and was happy with the results?

 

 

[Ootohere]

Because people complain about different cars behaviour from the car being new, and motoring journalists are often the ones that start it off.

 

The DSG does not learn, but it does adapt to the drivers and it can as we see be reset.

They can even be remapped to how a driver wishes it to perform.

 

Then as to the WLTP / RDE / RDE2, VW Group were caught out after the TDI Defeat Device Scandal with DSG Defeat Devices and had to recall some models on the strength of that.

They had the gearbox performing differently under test conditions and some drivers could have the DSG thinking it was test conditions.

 

PS

Australia & North America got 1.4 TSI non ACT engines with 8 speed torque converter Auto's just because of the issues sadly that DQ200 DSG's issues had and the 2019 Recall that followed the 2012/13 World Wide Recall with Service Campaigns only in Europe & then the next Recall & Service Campaign in 2017 on 2013-2015 DQ200's.   Australia still had cars that the actions had been done on or missed and needed checking again.

http://caradvice.com.au/800297/new-recall-of-80000-volkswagen-audi-and-skoda-cars-with-dsg-gearboxes-some-for-the-second-time-in-six-years

 

 

Edited 20 July, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[TDIum]

My previous Octy was a VRS TDI/DSG and it was almost never in the gear I wanted it in. Used M-mode a lot. 

[Gerrycan]

On 20/07/2021 at 22:51, e-Roottoot said:

Because people complain about different cars behaviour from the car being new, and motoring journalists are often the ones that start it off.

 

The DSG does not learn, but it does adapt to the drivers and it can as we see be reset.

They can even be remapped to how a driver wishes it to perform.

 

Then as to the WLTP / RDE / RDE2, VW Group were caught out after the TDI Defeat Device Scandal with DSG Defeat Devices and had to recall some models on the strength of that.

They had the gearbox performing differently under test conditions and some drivers could have the DSG thinking it was test conditions.

 

PS

Australia & North America got 1.4 TSI non ACT engines with 8 speed torque converter Auto's just because of the issues sadly that DQ200 DSG's issues had and the 2019 Recall that followed the 2012/13 World Wide Recall with Service Campaigns only in Europe & then the next Recall & Service Campaign in 2017 on 2013-2015 DQ200's.   Australia still had cars that the actions had been done on or missed and needed checking again.

http://caradvice.com.au/800297/new-recall-of-80000-volkswagen-audi-and-skoda-cars-with-dsg-gearboxes-some-for-the-second-time-in-six-years

 

 

When  you get defensive you do come out with some irrelevant and difficult to understand twaddle.

Again I ask what does any of that have to do with the OP's comments on his 'wet' 6 speed DSG?

 

Edited 21 July, 2021 by Gerrycan

[Ootohere]

I am not being defensive.

You asked a question i replied.    The OP speaks about how they use the DQ250 to suit their needs. 

I have no idea if their box is back to as it was fresh from the factory or not.

 

Happy they are happy. 

When i get in other peoples cars with DSG's i might drive for a bit and if they behave pooriy just do the reset without plugging in and changing anything, just the pedal reset.

I have mostly driven just DSG's for 12 years now, or other auto's but never manuals.

 

Easy enough to try and no harm done if nothing is then better.  You can do the full reset if needed.

http://hypermiler.co.uk/gearbox/how-to-fix-those-clunky-gear-changes-with-a-dsg-reset-vw-skoda-audi-seat-gearbox-auto

 

Edited 21 July, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Gerrycan]

7 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

I am not being defensive.

You asked a question i replied.    The OP speaks about how they use the DQ250 to suit their needs. 

I have no idea if their box is back to as it was fresh from the factory or not.

 

Happy they are happy. 

When i get in other peoples cars with DSG's i might drive for a bit and if they behave pooriy just do the reset without plugging in and changing anything, just the pedal reset.

I have mostly driven just DSG's for 12 years now, or other auto's but never manuals.

I disagree but since I could only afford one pound for the 5 minute argument we will have stop now.

However the bit about the 'pedal reset' does sound relevant. Are you saying that you can factory reset a DSG without having to use VCDS or similar?

[Ootohere]

I am saying i have and it can work,

but i have never had it make a difference to a DQ200 with actual issues. That is because the issue is MCU or Clutch / selector fork related and needs repairing.

With a DQ200 DSG the owners manual for Fabia Mk2 used to tell you about Dynamic Mode.  That was pretty much flooring the accelerator often enough and having it kick down a gear or 2 and the box doing as happens when you do the pedal reset on Wet Clutch DSG's but without the car started.

You can make a dull / slow feeling car / van / DSG perk up.

[Ecomatt]

On 20/07/2021 at 13:36, paulski said:

Are any of the posters here TDI's with any other mods such as mapped engines or Dsg remaps or are they all stock?

 

 I've the 150bhp 2.0 TDI and did find transition from a manual to the Dsg "challenging" and having to feather the throttle to the right position to get it in the right gear when approaching roundabouts/junctions. Mines got a bit clunky of late,  so will be getting some vcds time in this week to try this. 

 

I'm still not sure I've really sussed out how to drive it as smoothly as it can be after two years of ownership,  despite reading posts here and other forums. 

Mine is DSG with no mods. The thing about DSG is that people treat it like an automatic when it isn't. Isn't is a 2 manual gearboxes with an automatic clutch. The gearbox can only work within the parameter it sees from the throttle input. The DSG does not learn your driving style and can only react to inputs. From having my car I have come to understand that if you want to be in a certain gear then either use the paddles and manually change, or use the gear level to do so. 

You will notice if you lift off accelerating the gearbox usually changes up a gear as it is set up for economy. It will only change down if you apply mote throttle, which is counter Intuitive if you are approaching a roundabout or corner. Again you have to just override it and manually change down to be I'm the right gear.

Equally it can be jerky setting off but you have to pre judge when to start and lift off the foot brake and wait for the car to slowly creep forward before applying the accelerator to get a smooth start.

The mechatronic unit is constantly checking every gear change it does and is constantly changing how it engages gear. Such as if it harshly engages a gear it will work out why that happened and try to correct it next time. This can lead it to go from its base adaption and cause running issues. This is why I reset mine every month. The pressing of the pedal method does help but it doesn't reset all the biting points etc that a proper adaption does. I did mine a few days ago and it is silly smooth again. It is a bit clunky when the gearbox is cold but when warmed up works perfectly.

[esoxecosse]

On 20/07/2021 at 07:48, Ecomatt said:

I do this on obdeleven. I have never bothered with the adaption drive as the gearbox will run the tests when you drive normally in D. Doing the adaption run just speeds up the process.

Also I looked into the direct drive mode for the throttle.  All it does is put the throttle into sport mode. So if you have a  profile switchover button you can just leave it in sport.

Using OBDEleven I just tried following the guide at the top and the options are not available and the calibration of synchro points isn't there, can you give me any tips on getting this to work, cheers

[Ecomatt]

36 minutes ago, esoxecosse said:

Using OBDEleven I just tried following the guide at the top and the options are not available and the calibration of synchro points isn't there, can you give me any tips on getting this to work, cheers

 

Control Unit 2 for transmission. Go to basic settings and that should bring you to the below page. Then simply click into the relevant setting you want. 

Do you have the pro version of OBDELEVEN?

 

 

[esoxecosse]

Must be my gearbox I think DQ381, I do have the Pro version and I was changing displays in my Virtual Cockpit earlier ok so it is working aright but when I try and go through the gearbox options, Resetting all adpation values it tell me the function is not available.

 

Cheers

Edited 21 July, 2021 by esoxecosse

[esoxecosse]

The top image is how I received my car back from Border Skoda in Dumfries when they eventually updated my infotainment software, seemingly I have a Bentley..lol

[Ecomatt]

53 minutes ago, esoxecosse said:

The top image is how I received my car back from Border Skoda in Dumfries when they eventually updated my infotainment software, seemingly I have a Bentley..lol

I would imagine there will be a different routine for your gearbox. There is an app within OBDELEVEN that does it all for you so it might be easier to do do that.

[fr1nklyn]

BTW There is something I have to add in the initial post in this thread - the car is not moving when you release the brake pedal(as it usually does) until the throttle pedal is pressed. It happens on the very first driving, just after the DSG adaptation, but makes your blood run cold for few seconds 

[esoxecosse]

4 minutes ago, fr1nklyn said:

BTW There is something I have to add in the initial post in this thread - the car is not moving when you release the brake pedal(as it usually does) until the throttle pedal is pressed. It happens on the very first driving, just after the DSG adaptation, but makes your blood run cold for few seconds 

Yep I found that out to my expense, nearly cried for a couple of minutes, turned the car off and on and all was ok but good to know the throttle sorts it as well.lol

 

Cheers

[fr1nklyn]

On 21/07/2021 at 11:46, TDIum said:

My previous Octy was a VRS TDI/DSG and it was almost never in the gear I wanted it in. Used M-mode a lot. 

 

A bit off topic, but did you find manual downshifting in M-mode a bit jerky? I mean when you downshift manually, not when the car automatically downshifts when you're in M-mode I started to use the M-mode mainly for upshifting and leave the car to downshift itself when the revs are very low because it's smoother. Maybe the downshifting in M-mode on TDIs is a bit harsh because of the high torque on low revs.

 

However, when I drive on mountain roads with a lot of corners, I usually give up on using the M-mode because of the need to downshift almost before every corner and the feel of that jerking. That's the case where I usually switch to the usually useless S-mode.

 

Actually the S-mode is mainly used by me when I prepare to pass(overtake) someone on a motorway or on roads with a lot of corners, like the mountain ones.

 

I already know that downshifting on TSI engines with DSG is less noticeable  

Edited 22 July, 2021 by fr1nklyn

[Ootohere]

The thing is that the difference can be lots between TDI's that have different power, euro 5, euro 6 and euro 6d-temp because of the power, 6 or 7 speed & even 1.6TDI's with DQ200 7 speed dry clutch.

Same with TSI 2 litres, Euro 5 or 6 or newest and 6 or 7 speed.

 

Identical cars can feel differently and sometimes that might just be because of tyres and steering and handling being part of how the engine and dsg feels.

Then there are various settings and it is all EU Fuel but some use regular and some Premium diesel. or Unleaded or Super Unleaded.

 

The basics are that none of the DSG's should feel crap as VW group have had over a Decade to get them as good as they can.

Now they need to get them efficient for emissions.

Now they are ready to drop the Drivetrains many want for the sake of having Hybrids and that should mean smooth take offs and gearshifts.

[TDIum]

My VRS-TDI/DSG was always changing up too early. OK I know it has plenty of toque down low and maybe I was the one that needed adjusting. But then put it in S-mode and the thing just wanted to rev its tits off.  

Much happier now with the TSI/DSG 

Doing manual shifts with a DSG is often jerky just because it has pre-selected the other gear and not the one you want. So you're in 5th and tip down to 4th but it was pre-selecting 6th for you. 

Edited 22 July, 2021 by TDIum