57 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

@tunedude

Lets ignore the Few then.

 

So do you think there is a benefit to you running a TDI on Premium Diesel over standard Shell Diesel or any others including supermarket, and do you pay for your own fuel?

Is it better performance and fuel efficiency you get with the Premium Diesel which has no higher a Cetane? 

 

As far as I'm aware it does have a slightly higher cetane rating, about 2-3 more. But, this depends on who you listen to. All I am able to gather is it's able to do a more complete combustion due to said snake oil additives, thus meaning a potential for the DPF to have to do less work. That's the theory

 

Yes I pay for my own fuels. I'm more than happy to put V Power diesel in my car because of those snake oil properties. I'd sooner do that than try to mess about mixing in quantities of additives. When I had my tranny van and I was up and down the country working away, I was forced to use BP ultimate diesel (much to fleet's dismay) as the normal diesel wasn't working. Anyroad, after probably around 50 miles, you could see the odd puff of visible fumes on take off if you did a little traffic light GP. I would say it did drive better, albeit is a t280 swb mid roof tranny. I am convinced it did clean out some of the 'crap' and make it drive better. This was before I took ownership of my VRS TDI. So when I started driving it, I was more than happy to pay the, call it, £7 a tank premium.

 

But we're digressing from the OP's original point

The OP is pretty much covered.

The range showing is based on the last miles driven before putting in fuel.

The tank now with E10 in will tell a tale and each tank after.  But then putting in additives will only tell the OP a tale.

 

Another few weeks and starting in Scotland and the North of England it will be Winter Spec E10, E5 and Diesel that gets delivered to tanks / filling stations.

 

....................

If a Cetane was showing on pumps like the Octane does with petrol then there would be no doubt.

Royal Dutch Shell do not mention a higher cetane.

 

Edited 20 September, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

5 hours ago, TheWanderer said:

I've tried using bog standard 95 and get about 320 miles, add EcoMax to 95 and range goes up to 335-340.

 

A standard 97 will give me about 360 add EcoMax and it goes upto 370-380.

 

So imagine my surprise when putting E10 in I saw 420! 🤔

 

Wow, we must have very different driving habits or roads...

 

On my 245 vRS, the last three fill-ups have been 424, 418 and 430 miles apart running 95 fuel, pretty sure the last two fill-ups have been E10 too

Just shows what a 💩 car I have.

'It's quite a drop': Drivers complain over E10 fuel changes as efficiency 'plummets

 

That's just come up as a news article on my phone's suggested topics.

 

The sources seem to be a couple of people on Twitter. That’s it. 

I had to fill up with it on saturday to drive from yorkshire to top of northumberland for the week ,nobody near me had any premium fuel available they had all run out oddly enough ,its made no difference in vrs returned just under 40 mpg ,and i have had plenty of speeding tickets in the past ime not fuel efficient .

Edited 21 September, 20214 yr by Mickvrs220

28 minutes ago, SC03OTT said:

The sources seem to be a couple of people on Twitter. That’s it. 

 

I know. The online Karen's appear to be up for an E10 bashing sesh.

 

I'd be interested to see what the difference (if any) was to my bike, but it's mapped for 98+ RON

On 20/09/2021 at 21:01, TheWanderer said:

Just shows what a 💩 car I have.

If it makes you feel better, in my Golf R, mixed driving  with a fair chunk of urban, and not driving hard, just the occasional burst onto a slip lane I get about 320-330 using VPower 99! 

 

Motorway, longer trip 70mph (may be a little more), maybe 400-420 miles.  I have put 95 in it before and the range was slightly reduced, it is not recommend for this engine (Golf R) but with current fuel prices and the premium shell charge for V Power I may have to experiment a bit and keep a brick under the right go pedal... Haven't tried E10 95, my experience was before that in May 2021..

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/need-help/need-help-faqs/fuel.html

VW Recommend 98 Super for R's & GTI's for lower emissions. so that is 97 or 99 ron min Super Unleaded in the UK.  (That is for a more efficient engine if it means a cleaner engine.)

 

But your cars that were sold & are now sold was tested for the old tests and now with the WLTP / RDE & RDE2 on 95 ron Unleaded, and that will have been E5 and now might in the future have to be E10. 

The UK Government should have the testing done again in the UK with E10 used.

 

 

Edited 22 September, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

Seems to be holding up quite well so far. Be interesting to see what I get.

Noticed today that my long term mpg has dropped from 45 to 42 in the last couple of weeks.  No scientific test, but it’s been 45-ish for ages. (1.4 TSi)

13 minutes ago, Baxlin said:

Noticed today that my long term mpg has dropped from 45 to 42 in the last couple of weeks.  No scientific test, but it’s been 45-ish for ages. (1.4 TSi)

Ideally to get a good comparison you need to record atmospheric pressure and air temp as that can make a difference. The cooler air will be more dense and as such the car will supply more fuel to match. So it will reduce mpgs slightly. 

No place that cool in the UK yet apart from the other night around the Scottish Borders.

No extra time needed to defrost or get coolant and oil up to temp.

Nice ambient temp for cars with a turbo / intercooler so that energy is not wasted having to cool a engine down to an efficient temp.

24 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

No place that cool in the UK yet apart from the other night around the Scottish Borders.

No extra time needed to defrost or get coolant and oil up to temp.

Nice ambient temp for cars with a turbo / intercooler so that energy is not wasted having to cool a engine down to an efficient temp.

Disagree. Cooler air has more oxygen so the ecu compensates with more fuel. Warmer air is less dense so carries less oxygen, so the ecu compensates and uses less fuel. The weather need only be a few degrees lower and it does alter the air pressure and economy, hence why we have both map and maf sensors to compensate; which can equate to 1 or 2 mpgs of economy by itself.

To get a good comparison ideally you would need the car in test conditions in a lab and alter the pressure and temp of the air.  That way it would give a more representative value for the decrease in mpgs with the E10. Either way the E10 won't be as good as E5 but we are all about going green to save the planet...apparently.

@Ecomatt

How much cooler are you talking about for now with @Baxlin? 

What is your warmer temp for less dense and what is the temp you are talking about now for more dense, or are you just going to generalise?

 

Cool dry nights with traffic free roads and dense air suits what i drive, nice combustion and efficient use of fuel.

(A happy medium needed with EV;s though, mid teens just right for battery temps, and OK road surface grip, colder roads less grip / friction / traction)

 

Disagree all you like but i know exactly how much fuel i use in a petrol or diesel every summer autumn winter and spring  that i run vehicles during for a good number of years as they are keepers.

I know what difference tyre pressures make, tyre types make, wet or cold weather and warm or hot weather.

So real world spending my money running vehicles and knowing the MPG of every vehicle i have owned since the 1970's.

Mopeds, Bikes, Trikes, Cars, Vans, Campers.

I have used Leaded, Unleaded, Super Unleaded, 100 ron, 102 & 107 ron, alcohol, LPG, Diesel, Premium diesel, and Bio over the decades.

I do understand the science, but then i still buy the fuels or fill the tanks, i know what the fuels actually are while many are clueless to the octane they are buying. Sometimes i run the vehicles on the dynos with nice cool air blowing.

 

http://aet-turbos.co.uk/turbochargers-a-beginners-faq

 

http://aet-turbos.co.uk/turbos-and-temperature-summer-weather-and-turbocharger-performance

 

Edited 22 September, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

8 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

@Ecomatt

How much cooler are you talking about for now with @Baxlin? 

What is your warmer temp for less dense and what is the temp you are talking about now for more dense, or are you just going to generalise?

 

Cool dry nights with traffic free roads and dense air suits what i drive, nice combustion and efficient use of fuel.

(A happy medium needed with EV;s though, mid teens just right for battery temps, and OK road surface grip, colder roads less grip / friction / traction)

 

Disagree all you like but i know exactly how much fuel i use in a petrol or diesel every summer autumn winter and spring  that i run vehicles during for a good number of years as they are keepers.

I know what difference tyre pressures make, tyre types make, wet or cold weather and warm or hot weather.

So real world spending my money running vehicles and knowing the MPG of every vehicle i have owned since the 1970's.

Mopeds, Bikes, Trikes, Cars, Vans, Campers.

I have used Leaded, Unleaded, Super Unleaded, 100 ron, 102 & 107 ron, alcohol, LPG, Diesel, Premium diesel, and Bio over the decades.

I do understand the science, but then i still buy the fuels or fill the tanks, i know what the fuels actually are while many are clueless to the octane they are buying. Sometimes i run the vehicles on the dynos with nice cool air blowing.

 

http://aet-turbos.co.uk/turbochargers-a-beginners-faq

 

http://aet-turbos.co.uk/turbos-and-temperature-summer-weather-and-turbocharger-performance

 

Basically the links you have added back up what I have said. But it also doesn't bring into the equation of height. A car at sea level will make more power than a car (lets say) at 500ft above sea level because of air density.

There are plenty of factors that effect how efficiently a car will run like you say.

I live near the coast and it was 6c here yesterday morning. Quite a bit lower than the 18c during the day and my economy is always lower in the morning than when I go home. 

I enjoy these discussions because that is what a forum is about.

Shorter journeys in a Diesel and colder mornings and a TDI taking 6 miles to have the coolant getting to 90*oC and around 15 miles to get the oil to temp is rather different from a TSI.

I ran a 2016 SEAT Alhambra 2.0 TDI SCR DSG for 3 years and over 40,000 miles.  

 

Apples and Pears there with DERV vehicles.  I know exactly when the Winter Grade Diesel arrived at the filling stations i used and how the efficiency changed.

It did not drop if the temp at the start of October was the same as at the end when Winter Grade diesel was in my car.

 

I keep an accurate record of every purchase of fuel, price and miles per litre achieved, always have.  Sad but I take photos to keep a record as well.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/455627-skoda-petrol-consumption-poor

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/457520-petrol-prices

 

I very carefully and accurately monitor fuel pre First Winter Fuel delivery then the after the change and using it..

Also temps. and am doing the same trips several times each week at the same speeds and in the same time.

Lots of Average Speed cameras, and trip from the Sea to the Mountains and Mountains to the sea indifferent seasons.

I also do lots of journeys on the A77 at just above sea level along the coast at various weather conditions / temps. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 September, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

4 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

Shorter journeys in a Diesel and colder mornings and a TDI taking 6 miles to have the coolant getting to 90*oC and around 15 miles to get the oil to temp is rather different from a TSI.

I ran a 2016 SEAT Alhambra 2.0 TDI SCR DSG for 3 years and over 40,000 miles.  

 

Apples and Pears there with DERV vehicles.  I know exactly when the Winter Grade Diesel arrived at the filling stations i used and how the efficiency changed.

It did not drop if the temp at the start of October was the same as at the end when Winter Grade diesel was in my car.

My economy has dropped by 2 to 3 mpgs since I serviced the car but it will, as I put a new air filter in every service. More air going in so more fuel being used but I would rather it that way as I take care of my cars ocd. Also tried Miller Oils this time as opposed to my usual choice of quantum. Also some oil cleaner from liqui moly to see if it that helps with the oil usage on the engine.

I haven't seen a drop in economy using winter fuel as it is not that different apart from an anti waxing agent put in. But I do tend to use Vpower purely because it produces less soot for the dpf and does give me better economy overall. Plus cleans the fuel system from the inside so win win.

What is wrong there is that often the first sign of a dirty clogged air filter is a increase in fuel consumption.

Dirty air filter and you are chocking the engine. 

 

Many are best with a nice fresh OEM filter with a diesel over a restrictive K&N or such supposed performance filter.

 

The reason many use free flowing air intakes and cool air intakes is for performance.

Yes you might get more bang for your buck and use fuel, but it is efficient use.  The engine running well and you are only using half the available HP / Nm on UK Speed Limit roads 

anyway.

All works well when you are using coasting where that is available with your vehicle, up to speed and off you go getting good miles per litre.

 

That how it rolls.

 

Now the Oil is 0w 20 FS IV and the cold starts have much less of a penalty with a TSI with PDF. 

Edited 23 September, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

14 minutes ago, Ecomatt said:

More air going in so more fuel being used

This doesn't make complete sense.

 

Your engine produces as much power as you demand at any given moment, via the accelerator pedal. More air will go in only if you demand more power*.

Only if your foot is flat to the floor will the amount of power output be beyond your control and very slightly dependent on air temperature etc.

 

*Apologies, was only thinking of petrol engines there. Diesels will be a bit different in that respect, but still, in diesels the fuel input is controlling the power output, so same overall control in your hands/feet.

 

Edited 23 September, 20214 yr by Wino

1 hour ago, Ecomatt said:

A car at sea level will make more power than a car (lets say) at 500ft above sea level because of air density

Does that make more or less difference than the weather translating from a deep depression to a high anti-cyclone at constant temperature?

9 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Does that make more or less difference than the weather translating from a deep depression to a high anti-cyclone at constant temperature?

I have passed caring now 🤣

Not much to add really except I got 493 miles out of my last tank in my 1.4TSi, mainly a trip up and down the M6 from Coventry to Liverpool, few 20 mile runs to work and a trip up the M1 to Derby. Range dropped to 0 miles as I was driving to the petrol station on Tuesday morning to fill up 😬. It's been a great car economy wise tbf, long term average is 46.2mpg

They are really good,

near 100 ps less than the sporty fast models and yet get you about in the UK just as quickly and at less money spent on fuel.