MOT advisories (high level brake light, park brake) advice sought

[briscaF1]

Mrs took the MK2 combi for an MOT today.

 

The good news was that it passed again.

 

The bad news were a couple of advisories.

 

First up, the high level brake light is not working. I've had a nose around on the internet and it seems difficult to replace. Through the hole, I can see a small, white plastic clip that doesn't look like it'd take much to snap off. Does this need pushing one way to release it?

 

I also took a look at the wiring rubber boot but I didn't find a way of releasing it.

 

Are there any guides for these?

 

Second item was that the park brake efficiency was "only just met." I had the hand brake adjusted a couple of years ago but it seems to come up quite a way again. The MOT tester said that it was a problem on Fabia models. Is the cable stretching or is it something else?

 

Also needs new brake pads, which I knew anyway. I think the ones on are original and it's done 56k..

 

 

Thanks for any advice.

[Ootohere]

Not a bad idea before winter to see if the back wheels will come off if a wheel needs changed.

So while doing that is done as well to remove the rear drums to give them a clean out and inspection. 

At that point as well to make any cable adjustment or replacement, grease etc. 

 

Not a problem with a Fabia really just Service & Maintenance and the kind of work that should help pay mechanics wages.

 

Skoda take money for Major Services and do nothing etc like touch brakes, only look,  even the brake fluid change costs, and that is @ 3 years and each 2, 

or at least check the Fluids H20 content.

[KenONeill]

@briscaF1

1. Well, apparently a failed HLBL is only an advisory at your MoT station; go there again!!
2. Try this; foot brake on as hard as you can push it with the engine running. Now apply the hand brake and it should be several clicks lower.

[mrgf]

Not sure with the Fabia, but many cars used to have the high level brake light feed from one or the other rear light. If the feeding light blows, so can the high level. It may be worth looking at wiring diagrams and wiring to the brake lights to check there is no corrosion/damage to the high level light's feed.

[mrgf]

MENU

< PREV PAGENEXT PAGE >

Fabia Mk2

        

Vehicle electrics > Electrical System > Lights, lamps, switches outside > High level brake light > Removing and installing high level brake light and light strip

Removing and installing high level brake light and light strip Removing –  Switch off the ignition and all electrical components. –  Remove trim panel for tailgate (except Scout vehicles with plastic trim panel for tailgate) → Body Work; Rep. gr.70.

–  Slightly press the light downwards -arrow- and unclip clips from the openings in the tailgate -detail-. Except Scout vehicles with plastic trim panel for tailgate:

–  Put hand through the opening in the tailgate, press catch peg -arrow- and take out light. Scout vehicles with plastic trim panel for tailgate: –  Unclip light from the bearing in the trim panel for tailgate. All vehicles: –  Disconnect the plug connection.

 

–  Press off catch pegs -1- and remove light strip -2- upwards -arrows-. –  Installation is carried out in the reverse order.   Note The light strip is fitted with LEDs, which cannot be replaced individually. If defective replace the complete light strip.

[UrbanPanzer]

2 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@briscaF1

1. Well, apparently a failed HLBL is only an advisory at your MoT station; go there again!!
2. Try this; foot brake on as hard as you can push it with the engine running. Now apply the hand brake and it should be several clicks lower.

 

Does make you wonder !!!

[briscaF1]

15 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@briscaF1

1. Well, apparently a failed HLBL is only an advisory at your MoT station; go there again!!
2. Try this; foot brake on as hard as you can push it with the engine running. Now apply the hand brake and it should be several clicks lower.

It was a local Ford dealer's MOT station. Advisory states that third brake light is non obligatory.

 

I must admit that it seemed odd - if it is required to be there, I'd imagine that it would be required to be working, too.

 

 

[UrbanPanzer]

if it's fitted as a stop lamp, it must be checked and must be working + it's part of european type approval to have a high level brake light and has been for many many years.

 

not that your bothered, but it "should" have failed.

 

The MOT tester needs a little educating.

[mrgf]

It is correct that it should have been a failure...

The MOT criteria for the "Third" Brake light is that it should have at leat 60% of the bulbs working, so a single bulb which is blown is a failure, a dual bulb with one blown will fail, multi bulbs with lees then 60% blown, should pass. This does kind of contradict the rules that ALL bulbs should be operative but circumnavigates the rules due to the actual lamp illuminating. (Hence two bulbs per rear light, if you look. It would take both to fail, to prevent illumination).

 

There are many modern features that circumnavigate rules, such as signal lights (Indicators), which are meant to be either above, below or on the outside of headlights. Many designers started to fit them on the inner side of the headlights, closer to the grille, as a design feature. This broke rules technically but circumnavigated them when it became a requirement to also have a signal lamp on the outer edge of a vehicle. (Wing, door mirror, etc, evan as far back as on a door, on some cars). This then meant the inner signal was no longer "Breaking" the rules, just getting round them. It has been a bone of contention among driver-training quarters for years as it takes just a second longer to spot the inner signal, then it would ordinarily take and learners take an extra second or so anyway. This is where the recommended "Two second" rule, gets sort of lost a little.

 

The high level lights are meant to be seen not but the following vehicle, but the one following that, so as to get that extra second, prior to the car in front of them starting to brake, if you follow me. When first tested, they showed rear end collisions drop by around 40%, according to stats as you usually retro fitted them yourself. With that information, they then became more commonplace and eventually, a legal requirement. 

As with many aftermarket bits and bobs, such as fog lights, if fitted, they MUST work so when they broke, many owners just ripped them back out, if not standard fitment. 

 

So, you got lucky-following drivers not so! 😇

Edited 25 September, 2021 by mrgf

[briscaF1]

This link

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/your-questions-answered-should-i-be-failing-defective-stop-lamps/

Says this

 

Before failing an additional stop lamp for not working, you must be able to prove - without dismantling - that the lamp is complete and the wiring to the lamp is connected. The manual states that: “Where extra lamps are fitted and there is doubt as to whether they are connected, the benefit of this doubt should be given to the presenter.”

 

Seems that it is down to interpretation.

 

For an OEM fitment, I'd have erred on it being connected.

 

They know me well at the dealer so maybe they were lenient 🤔🙂

[UrbanPanzer]

1 hour ago, mrgf said:

The MOT criteria for the "Third" Brake light is that it should have at leat 60% of the bulbs working, so a single bulb which is blown is a failure, a dual bulb with one blown will fail, multi bulbs with lees then 60% blown

 

Not quite correct buddy, it has to have 50% working in a multi bulb or LED setup, does not matter which / what they are.

[UrbanPanzer]

heres the "key" wording...

 

Vehicles first used on or after 1 January 1971 must have 2 stop lamps, one on each side.

Additional stop lamps, over and above the obligatory requirements, must be tested. However, if you are not sure that they’re connected, you should give the benefit of the doubt.

 

So  it looks like it can pass without it no issues.

Edited 25 September, 2021 by UrbanPanzer

[nta16]

MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles

4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment

4.3 Stop Lamps

4.3.3. Compliance with requirements - 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment#section-4-3-3

[mrgf]

2 hours ago, UrbanPanzer said:

 

 

2 hours ago, UrbanPanzer said:

heres the "key" wording...

 

Vehicles first used on or after 1 January 1971 must have 2 stop lamps, one on each side.

Additional stop lamps, over and above the obligatory requirements, must be tested. However, if you are not sure that they’re connected, you should give the benefit of the doubt.

 

So  it looks like it can pass without it no issues.

Surely though, this is again, circumnavigating rules as the lamp would have been connected, from the factory, when new? I read that additional stop lamps, would be added POST vehicle build, not as part of the build. So factory fitted high level brake lights, should be assumed to be connected and working, not the other way round? 

 

[Ootohere]

An oldie but goldie from 2013.

 

 

[sepulchrave]

Thank goodness you posted the content of that link that @briscaF1 posted earlier, I was utterly incapable of clicking on it for myself...

[Ootohere]

@sepulchrave  Sorry missed seeing that link, but no harm done is there?

[sepulchrave]

28 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

@sepulchrave  Sorry missed seeing that link, but no harm done is there?

 

No, not now, I'm sure @briscaF1 will be cool knowing that you plagiarised him accidentally and I'm getting used to you facepalming me for calling you out.

[Ootohere]

It is a 'groan' because you are on a wind up often.

[mrgf]

Plagiarised?

 

I was totally unaware briskaF1 had actually written that document... 

Surely, e-Roottoot just re-posted a post that had already been posted. As he stated an oldie but goodie from 2013, he actually came across the document himself so that would not be plagiarising another person who posted the same document. a little earlier unless it was an original composition.

 

Additionally, plagiarism would be suggesting you copy work and pass it off as your own, which clearly was not the case.

 

Still, back-biting is the flavour dejour, methinks! Here am I doing it myself!😇

[Routemaster1461]

On 25/09/2021 at 10:50, briscaF1 said:

It was a local Ford dealer's MOT station. Advisory states that third brake light is non obligatory.

 

I must admit that it seemed odd - if it is required to be there, I'd imagine that it would be required to be working, too.

 

 

 

Many people think that if something is fitted it must work to pass an MOT. This is not true. For instance, a rear wiper and washer doesn't need to work. There was a thread on the high level rear light on another forum. I'm not sure about whether a high level rear light is compulsory on a new car now, but it would appear that if a high level light has several bulbs/LEDs the car will fail an MOT if fewer than half ot the fitted bulbs/LEDs are not working. However if the light is not working att all it will pass bevcause it could be disconnected, and no further investigation by the tester is allowed. I'm not sure whether this makes any sense, but that is how it is.

[sepulchrave]

24 minutes ago, mrgf said:

Plagiarised?

 

I was totally unaware briskaF1 had actually written that document... 

Surely, e-Roottoot just re-posted a post that had already been posted. As he stated an oldie but goodie from 2013, he actually came across the document himself so that would not be plagiarising another person who posted the same document. a little earlier unless it was an original composition.

 

Additionally, plagiarism would be suggesting you copy work and pass it off as your own, which clearly was not the case.

 

Still, back-biting is the flavour dejour, methinks! Here am I doing it myself!😇

 

At least you bother to read what others post, possibly the wrong choice of words but I didn't have you figured as a grammar nazi.

 

Still, thanks for the help.

[mrgf]

Leave my grammar out of it.... She's a very old lady!