Solar panels plus battery storage - anyone have that?

[cheezemonkhai]

2 hours ago, john999boy said:

My panels haven't really lost any output over the 11 years they've been fitted so I wouldn't worry too much about that aspect.

I would also guess the guarantee won't be worth anything that far down the line either.

One thing though, look at getting a longish warranty on the inverter as they are prone to fail.

 

Thanks and yes, the inverters are a little bit of a worry, as are all the active parts

 

The two inverters options I've been given are:

 

 - givEnergy hybrid with 8kWh battery  (which could write off the battery if it fails and a suitable replacement isn't available)

 - SMA inverter and another SMA for the BYD 7+kWh battery

 

Both options have been specified with 10 year warranties, although I might look to extend that to 15.

That being said however, you always look at warranty cost, vs the cost for buying 2

 

When you say long, what do you call long?

 

As for panel loss, I guess generation wise as the UK conditions are fairly tame compared to other countried, then maybe it becomes less of a concern.

I'm just waiting for a real cost from the DNO, then I'll be able to look at getting the two options in more details.

 

[john999boy]

9 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

When you say long, what do you call long?

At least 10 years.

[lol-lol]

On 30/12/2021 at 11:37, J.R. said:

The question was not regarding the availability of off peak power but its pricing.   If they use the same scam as in France then you will be paying a higher price for every single one of your standard rate units than had you remained on a standard tarif, we also have to pay a higher standing charge.

I have electric storage heating and 12 years ago they saved me money on the off peak tarif,over the years the saving between peak and off peak has been slowly eroded but also the excess charged for peak units has gone up so I only actually save any money if it is a cold winter, I already have hot water heating and washing machine on off peak.   Currently you need to consume 4 times as many off peak units to standard rate to make a saving, given that the heating is only on 3 maybe 4 months of the year its a balancing act, people with electric heating which is on 24/7 winter months are conned into the off peak tarif for the savings they can make at night when the heating is set lower anyway but they are paying more than they would the other 16 hours a day and for all the other electricity consumed all year round.  As more and more people draw off peak power to charge EV's I expect the energy suppliers to further exploit the situation to their advantage.

 

Came across what Octopus will be charging me for how long and it is:-   (VAT on top of this at 5% but hopefully reduced soon).

Electricity
Tariff Name Octopus Go May 2021  v1
Unit Rate (00:30 - 04:30) 4.76p/kWh
Unit Rate (04:30 - 00:30) 14.90p/kWh
Standing Charge 23.81p/day (£86.91/year)
Price Guaranteed Until 17th Sept. 2022
Early Exit Fee None 

 

Gives me time to get my other systems in place.  Big unknown is where my gas prices will go in April 2022, currently...

Gas
Tariff Name Flexible Octopus
October 2021 v1
Product Type Variable
Payment Method Direct Debit
Unit Rate 3.64p/kWh
Standing Charge 22.71p/day
(£82.89/year)

 

I am now generating a bit of electricity by solar, was producing over 50W and hour or two but then the clouds came over and shrouded the sun.

Only plugged in the 3 by 120W panels at lunchtime.  Only produced about 100kJ before the sun was so weak that the panels were clearly not adding anything to the solar generator battery pack.

 

I have been using 40% of my electricity in the cheap period and I have fitted an immersion heater for the water in the last few days so that should help further.

 

[Gaz]

I've just started to look into this, but really don't have any technical know-how.  There's so much info out there it's quite confusing.  A lot of online stuff draws me towards giving personal details, which I'm not about to do at this juncture.

 

I reckon I could get 16 panels on my South facing roof.  There seems to be figures mooted of likely costs of around £5k, but with battery costs on top of this.  I'm more inclined to take an all or nothing approach, as these kind of sums can buy a lot of electricity and gas.

 

Has anyone gone through the process recently of a full install, plus battery storage?  (I'm not going down the DIY route).  What I'd like to know is what's a realistic ball-park budget, if there is such a thing.  I get the feeling (not based on anything scientific) that £5k is probably a starting block and there'll be lots of add-on costs.

 

Might contact my local Borough Council as there was a recent-ish scheme, but after reading about it, saw the application deadline was 2020 🙄

 

Gaz

 

 

[Ootohere]

Vid was posted 5 days ago.

 

 

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

It's an interesting mess for sure.

Just trying to get the final price from our potential solar installer, so we can get it in progress.

[cheezemonkhai]

On 02/03/2022 at 12:43, Gaz said:

I've just started to look into this, but really don't have any technical know-how.  There's so much info out there it's quite confusing.  A lot of online stuff draws me towards giving personal details, which I'm not about to do at this juncture.

What’s most important to you, pure return on investment, predictability of bills or dealing with power cuts? 
 

The bigger batteries are worse for point 1, but better for 2 and 3.

 

On 02/03/2022 at 12:43, Gaz said:

 

I reckon I could get 16 panels on my South facing roof.  There seems to be figures mooted of likely costs of around £5k, but with battery costs on top of this.  I'm more inclined to take an all or nothing approach, as these kind of sums can buy a lot of electricity and gas.

 

16x400W is a big array at about 6kWp.

Make sure your DNO will let you export more that 16A if you’re going that route. Otherwise put a 4kWp array on and save your money.

 

Batteries don’t really pay for themselves still, they’re just too expensive. It’s closer but still just beyond warranty period. They help massively with predictable costs and supply security though.

 

Panels and a solar diverter for an immersion heater makes a lot of sense and you could happily run that with a 6kWp system.

 

On 02/03/2022 at 12:43, Gaz said:

 

Has anyone gone through the process recently of a full install, plus battery storage?  (I'm not going down the DIY route).  What I'd like to know is what's a realistic ball-park budget, if there is such a thing.  I get the feeling (not based on anything scientific) that £5k is probably a starting block and there'll be lots of add-on costs.

 

Battery and 6kWp ranges from 10-20k depending on the battery, capacity and panel power/grade.

 

They are from a range of fully installed quotes.

 

On 02/03/2022 at 12:43, Gaz said:

 

Might contact my local Borough Council as there was a recent-ish scheme, but after reading about it, saw the application deadline was 2020 🙄

 

Gaz

 

 

That was similar here and annoying.

[cheezemonkhai]

Out of interest what inverters/batteries does anyone who has solar/batteries have?

What are others considering?

 

I think we've narrowed it down to GivEnergy and an SMA/Tesla Powerwall or if delays are too great then it will be Solar/SMA and add an AC coupled battery later and suck up the VAT increase.

[OldTrilobite]

I know it's not anwering anyone's questions, but I have been wondering if PV solar panels are as 'green' as we think.  Two-thirds of them are now made in China - a country notorious for powering its industries with electricity from coal-fired generators. I assume that making the silicon elements of these panels must use a lot of electric power, and perhaps result in much Chinese CO2 emissions (and other pollution).  There is a row brewing here in East Anglia over a proposal to build a really gynormous PV generating plant, covering a huge acreage of good farmland.

[Ootohere]

It is a shame if productive farmland is not used for food when it could be used and the solar goes where there is lots of unproductive land all around the UK and roof tops n farm and other buildings perfect for solar panels or that when being built should be suitable for them.

 

Sheep can live and feed in and around solar farms and do at some, and grass is gown and other crops can as well and be harvested.

Location location location and design. 

It is a shame though when NIMBY's protest against energy production but want to be able to receive as much as they want when ever they want.

 

Farming can not always be viable if there are politicians that think **** farmers and if there are no seasonal workers to pick crops then tough titty, the locals are too lazy to actually work on the land but expect cheap food in the shops. 

 

Nearish to me but sadly others applied for are being refused.   For now that is.  This one.  https://www.berryhillsolarfarm.co.uk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 5 March, 2022 by roottoot

[cheezemonkhai]

You can buy solar not made in China, but people want cheap.

 

As for the solar farm… tbh I think farmland shouldn’t be used. Roof tops should be mandated to include it, especially for warehouse sized buildings etc

[OldTrilobite]

5 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

You can buy solar not made in China, but people want cheap.

 

Which is why Britain has lost most of its manufacturing: pottery, umbrellas, industrial tools, electronics, etc.  We all buy cheaper Chinese-made scissors and knives, frying pans, keyboards...

 

I agree that PV solar panels are the only practicable non-fossil-fuel option for home generation, unless one is lucky enough to own sufficient acreage to be able to put up a wind turbine.

 

Making 'green' electricity on an industrial scale is a different matter. I watched the 'Solar Panel Factory' roottoot mentioned, on YouTube, and thought it a rather self-satisfied promotion of an Indian production plant. Impressive, but no mention of production energy needed.  India (& China) still rely on coal-fired electricity generators. Engineers speak of 'embedded' and 'embodied' energy: the energy (and by extrapolation, potential pollution) required to make something from source through transport, refining, purification, manfacturing and distribution. I have unfortunately mislaid the figures comparing the embedded energies for PV solar panels with wind turbines. Wind has a distinct advantage in lower embedded energy costs. Solar panels are suitable for arid sunlit parts of the world (like parts of India) but wind turbines seem far better suited to Britan and northern Europe. They don't wreck agricultural land nearly so much either. There is a large field of solar panels somewhere off the Cambridge-Newmarket road, where the panels are so tightly packed that grass struggles to grow underneath. One could never graze anything under these panels, nor grow any normal crop.

 

Apologies for taking this discussion somewhat off-topic. I'll shut up now!

 

 

[Ootohere]

Many in the UK are happy that the Wind Turbines on land are very much in Scotland where those nearest to them or even within view of them do not get cheaper electric.

Or they are offshore around the UK including around Scotland.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56530424

 

 

England really needs get get a grip of becoming more energy secure. 

 

The Cambo Oilfield will be producing oil in the not distant future.

 

https://news.sky.com/video/abundance-of-renewables-will-help-scotland-secure-future-and-jobs-sturgeon-12518330

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 March, 2022 by roottoot

[cheezemonkhai]

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

Many in the UK are happy that the Wind Turbines on land are very much in Scotland where those nearest to them or even within view of them do not get cheaper electric.

Or they are offshore around the UK including around Scotland.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56530424

 

 

England really needs get get a grip of becoming more energy secure. 

 

The Cambo Oilfield will be producing oil in the not distant future.

 

https://news.sky.com/video/abundance-of-renewables-will-help-scotland-secure-future-and-jobs-sturgeon-12518330

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cornwall and other parts of the south west are quite good too.

 

Solar on farmland is no/minimal crops, but a suitable set of wind turbines probably leaves most  of the capacity to grow crops.

 

Solar is however good for our house/factor roofs.

There are a few made in UK panel technologies out there which look promising.

[Ootohere]

The issue has been the Governments since Labour, Con-Lib and ever since.

Ministers and Secretaries of states being in a total state and all over the shop. Climate, Energy, Business and anything else that suits the Party Sponsors.

 

There are decades worth of them that have Investors and the public not sure were they stand financially putting their money into things.

That comes down to the PM's, Chancellors and those in the house of lords with vested interests in Oil, Gas & Nuclear or where they get their Directorships / Consultancies and jobs when out of elected politics.

 

Ed Miliband.

Chris Huhne.

Ed Davey.     A real snooter,   but Snooters all of them.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Davey

Amber Rudd.

Greg Clark.

Andrea Leadsom.

Nick Hurd.

Alok Sharma.

Kwasi Kwarteng.       

Claire Perry. 

She can change her name by marriage to Claire Perry O'Neill

but she is still responsible for being there making a mess of stuff.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Perry    They did blow her out from the lucrative COP26 job. 

 

 

Edited 6 March, 2022 by roottoot

[fabdavrav]

9 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

You can buy solar not made in China, but people want cheap.

 

As for the solar farm… tbh I think farmland shouldn’t be used. Roof tops should be mandated to include it, especially for warehouse sized buildings etc

 

 

Back in 2001 I was talking to a customer in my shop, who ran a large carbon fibre manufacturing plant with large ovens etc...I was telling him to cover his roof with solar panels..

 

 

Up here in Scotland there are acres of roofs all at about the right angle.....Bonded warehouses for whisky

 

Just three distilleries:-

 

Macallan distillery

Google Maps

 

Balveine

Google Maps

 

Tomatin

Google Maps

[john999boy]

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Solar on farmland is no/minimal crops

It is suitable for grazing though. 😉

[cheezemonkhai]

40 minutes ago, john999boy said:

It is suitable for grazing though. 😉

Which is fine as long as they’re built on middling to poor grazing land and not arable or prime grazing.

 

Sadly enough are built on good quality land suitable for more.

[Ootohere]

@fabdavravWilliam Grant & Sons Distillers were suing my cousins business since 2010 over the roofs that collapsed that they were responsible for building.

I think the administrators for his company might have reached a settlement recently.

https://www.asiatraveltips.com/news10/227-Glenlivit.shtml

 

 

 

Thankfully there are lots of smart people in the world, what a pity not many are elected as politicians.

 

 

2015. Aberdeenshire.

https://absolutesolarandwind.co.uk/case-studies/solar-farm-mackies/

 

https://mackiescrisps.co.uk/about-us/abouts-us/

Near the Errol Solar farm in Perthshire.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-36468301

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 March, 2022 by roottoot

[cheezemonkhai]

Now that’s a better arrangement 

[PetrolDave]

13 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Sadly enough are built on good quality land suitable for more.

The Norboard factory near South Molton (which makes kitchens for B&Q amongst others) has a huge solar array covering a field which is prime agricultural land at the bottom of the hill where the factory is, it would have been far better to site the array further up the hill where the land is poorer.

[Ootohere]

Tens of thousands of acres in the UK are used to grow cut flowers for Easter, Mother's day and the rest of the year, and Christmas trees for a couple of weeks each year.   Then many many hours of labour and fuel are used in the production and fertilisers.  Market gardens as well.   This is the land that can be used for food production and energy production when shortages really hit.   Then tens of thousands of acres were left to produce nothing because the EU funded Slipper Farmers.    So the future is bright when the productive land will be used other than to decorate homes and buildings.    No job losses just the stuff life needs, food, water, energy and employment and a bit of rest and recreation. 

 

It is being reported that Boris wants being Green dropped for a while. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 March, 2022 by roottoot

[cheezemonkhai]

@Gazdid you get the information on this?

 

We’ve just got a final quote for an east/west array and batteries. Tbh the battery side of it is still 50:50 on if it will pay for itself. What they are much better at is to really shrink your bills to a tiny monthly amount, which should make the gas more manageable.

[Gaz]

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

@Gazdid you get the information on this?

 

No Mr Cheeze, not so far. I'm taking my time (read - dithering), but also weighing up life and other things as I'm two years away from retiring (at 60), but thinking about going earlier, in which case the capital will be used to tide me over until Pensions kick in. I've a meeting at the end of next week which'll answer the 'should I stay or should I go?' conundrum, so I'll know better then.

 

Gaz

 

[cheezemonkhai]

I’d suggest getting a quote as a lot of people are refusing to quote new customers our way. That way at least you have a quote to work on.

 

FWIW solar without a battery is probably a good one to look at, especially with a solar diverter to the immersion. That’ll save you a lot on bills.