Solar panels plus battery storage - anyone have that?

[john999boy]

@cheezemonkhai I can’t remember if I’ve mentioned this previously but there used to be an online site where you could put in your location, roof direction(s) and pitch which would then tell you your likely generation figures. Your roof layout is doubly sub optimum generation wise but obviously very good time wise. Your potential home working situation can influence how beneficial this is to yourself in the great scheme of things. Hopefully the generation figures give a decent payback rate v cost v time.
I’ve also got an immersion diverter which does a good job of keeping the water hot but generally only saves 3-5 kWh per day. Some have secondary diversion facilities if that has any use for you too.

 

[cheezemonkhai]

12 hours ago, john999boy said:

@cheezemonkhai I can’t remember if I’ve mentioned this previously but there used to be an online site where you could put in your location, roof direction(s) and pitch which would then tell you your likely generation figures. Your roof layout is doubly sub optimum generation wise but obviously very good time wise. Your potential home working situation can influence how beneficial this is to yourself in the great scheme of things. Hopefully the generation figures give a decent payback rate v cost v time.
I’ve also got an immersion diverter which does a good job of keeping the water hot but generally only saves 3-5 kWh per day. Some have secondary diversion facilities if that has any use for you too.

 

The sites I saw and the and quotes I have seemed to line up pretty well between 4750 and 5250 kWh per year from the roof with 3.2 east/3.2 west.

That’s based on around 0.7-0.8 kW/kWp.

 

I found a really good site at Cambridge uni that gave fantastic data including output per day and which hours generation was useful.

 

If it’s dead south then yes I would get more total power, but as you say because it’s east west I get more usable hours where solar contributes. We’re getting a battery too, which should help with the winter loads for Nov to Feb as it can be grid charged off peak👍
 

Six of one, half a dozen of the other when there is no FIT to worry about. I however only have an east west roof until it gets to the stage where you clad walls with solar rather than rendering them.

 

edit:

 

The solar diverter plan was to dump spare electric into the hot water tank and reduce the gas bill at 8p per kWh. I thought this might go as far as meaning the boiler would essentially only top up in the summer. I wonder if it’s worth it with the battery.

 

A neighbour has one and they have a tiny summer gas use. 👍

Edited 12 March, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[cheezemonkhai]

Out of interest has anyone here gone solaredge?

I’m more inclined to avoid it as that’s something else on the roof to go wrong and our roof is at minimum an access tower to reach it.

[lol-lol]

Well as the days roll on towards the vernal equinox and then on to summer solstice I am recording my generation with my 4 bijou solar panels.

 

750kJ today and I expect to be in the millions in the days to come.

Just be running three of my 120W ones in series but best use of my 4 panels is two lots of two ie each pair in series and then put each pair in parallel with my newly acquired MC4 branch connectors. 

 

Think I should probably get another two 120W, coming in at £85 each from Amazon and see if that over powers my solar input which is only rated at 500W so will probably need another solar generator of some kind, Ecoflow, Poweroak and other companies coming on to the market providing these combination devices with solar power rectification to battery charging and the storage of the power for when one wants to use it either when electricity is expensive or when their are blackouts or to take away on camping etc trips.

 

Yesterday was very poor for solar generation in the English Midlands so plugged in the charger lead and put in 4 hours of cheap electricity using the night-time cheap tariff of 5p a kWh and then use that to power the laptop, stand lights and stereo the following days. 

 

I am not due my electricity rates change until September when my one year deal changes but it is anything like the gas rise of £60 a month then I will look to continue to expand my solar and battery storage with an aim to get generation in to the kWs per hour and the storage up to the 5 kWh at least but 10kWh would be better if I can but that sounds very expensive.  I see new dealers in such equipment, such as Tayna, but they are showing full and highish RRP compared to the USD and even EUR cost equivalent, might have to wait until Black Friday as I did with my Bluetti Poweroak EB180. 

 

[Ootohere]

 

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

Interesting that the guy has the sunamp thermal store.

[Gaz]

45 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Interesting that the guy has the sunamp thermal store.

 

From a layman's perspective, i thought that was really interesting.  My southerly geography, and open South facing roofspace probably gets more solar input than he does too.  Food for thought.

 

Gaz

[Ootohere]

Might help even if just to know how they have done things.

 

 

 

[lol-lol]

First day on power the fridge freezer from the solar generator (Poweroak EB180- 1.8 kWh lithium phosphate battery with 1 kWh invertor & 6 DC outlets).

 

Reckon fridge-freezer is using about 2 kWh a day so would currently cost about 30p a day but this would leap to close to £1 a day or so after the price rises in October if I do not do anything about it.  If my calculations are correct the fridge-freezer makes up 10% to 15% or so of my monthly bill.

 

If the solar generator is not at least 60% or so charged at midnight then I will use the my cheap time electricity and the 200W charger to bring it up to at least 80% I reckon.  Shame EB180, like all the Poweroak solar generators, do not have percentage SOC rather than the over simplistic 5 bar system which is one naff thing about the Poweroaks, must try and get a volt meter wired in their somewhere so I can work out my own SOC.

     

Could be a significant saving if I have done my sums right ie from a tenner a month now, but that could be closer to £25 a month when I am asked to pay over 35p per kWh for my 20 hours outside my GO 4 hour super cheap tariff when I charge the Zoe.  Tough time is going to be winter when the solar is tiny and I have to rely on the cheap tariff ie 7.5p per kWh to do the main charging for the solar genny and therefore fridge-freezer.  Might need the 500/600W charger.

 

[cheezemonkhai]

Did anyone go ahead and manage to actually get it installed? We’ve had a few delays and cancellation of install twice. Now we find out the DNO form went to the wrong DBO it could be 90 more days.

 

FFS! 🤬🤬😤🤯

[Colin170CR]

Just found this thread. 

 

I'm currently looking at a 10 panel 3.6kW Hybrid solar system avec 9.5kW battery, EV car charger, solar diverter (to heat hot water which, will probably need a HW cylinder change) & probably a replacement consumer unit as well 🤢. 

My main problem at present is that our incoming mains power cable from the street is shared with my neighbour in what is a called a looped supply i.e. mains cable comes in to my meter box is then looped over to my neighbours house so all the power consumed by both houses comes down the same cable. 

 

As I understand it, to install a 7kW home car charger the supply to each house must be un-looped & larger cables run in for one or both houses & the main fuses upgraded from 60 to 100amp along with larger diameter meter cables. To do this my & my neighbours front garden / driveway would have to be dug up to access the existing cable & replace with new. This is because the power consumption of both houses + the 7kW charger (which could be running for long periods of time), would be too much for the existing shared cable size. TBH ideally I would be charging the 9.5kW battery from solar by day & charging a car & running other appliances from the battery by night. If I need to top up from the mains it would be at night on a lower rate tariff to avoid / minimise any daytime grid usage.

 

The question is, who pays for for all that extra upgrade cable work? 

 

As far as I can tell the local DNO would do all the cabling upgrade work for free if I have a 7kW EV charger installed (I'm awaiting confirmation on this & whether they will want evidence that we actually own an EV because we don't have one yet). However, I'm not sure if the same is true for the Solar system installation on it's own without an EV charger. I'm currently waiting for confirmation from my area DNO exactly what the situation is. 

 

Another thing worth noting is that if I had all the work done at the same time as the solar install that everything would be zero rated as far as VAT is concerned. Well that's assuming the new chancellor doesn't put the rug out from under that any time soon🤞. 

 

The current lead time on solar installs from one company I'm talking to is around 4 months!! I got advised by one well known YouTuber electrical company that it's taking them 3 months just to turn around quotes for solar installs let alone another 4 months lead time for the work to be done😖. It seems Solar installers are swamped with enquiries which is a all due to the rise in gas & oil prices & the uncertainty in the market generally. Thanks Liz🖕

It also seems that the DNO's & National Grid are swamped with applications (partly the reason for the install delays) for which they charge a non-refundable £175 per application to process. Nice little earner for them🤑

 

One the solar quote I got indicated the pay back time would be in year 11 (no allowance for EV charging or saving in petrol). A very conservative estimate based on my current usage & assumed reasonable rates of inflation. In reality, & depending on usage, I should see a payback in less time than this. Probably nearer 7-8 years. 

I'm still in limbo until I know what the full financial implications are. That said I'll probably go ahead sooner or later because I'd rather spend my own hard earned cash on the house than give it to others in absurdly high utility costs. That said I do want to keep my Superb 280 so it will be the wife who gets the EV which is, as they say, a whole different story for a different thread on this forum....

 

 

 

     

[cheezemonkhai]

If it helps, the prices went through the roof when the VAT was cut. I guess people thought they could just take the profit.

 

DNO Wise, not sure as we don’t have bc s looped connection so any upgrade was charged.

Edited 19 October, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[VWD]

On 04/10/2021 at 21:53, cheezemonkhai said:

Can you draw from your car battery or does the car/charger not permit that?

CM plenty of circuits using cheap CMOS devices to generate 50hz AC @ 230/250 v from car battery. Problems might be regulating voltage and frequency. Most cars have an alternator that might give out enough current to supply low loads in house, but that means getting access to device supplies.Dont forget that for every 1.2KW at 240 v you need to have a transformer/ invertor setup to handle at least  a current of twenty times that at 12v,( still 1200w but at 12v = 100Amp).

[VWD]

On 29/11/2021 at 00:18, @Lee said:

Maybe a tad OT but has anyone considered building their own generator? I was mulling over the idea of using an old 1.9  SDi as they're bomb proof and easy to maintain. 

 

Lee - you'd need a hefty alternator. Might be possible with the 12v alternator powering engine and another alternator ( 24/36v) powering the invertor setup.

But don't forget that for 1200w you need 100A /at 12v/ 50 A at 24v or 33 A at 36v.

Just some thoughts.

 

 

[@Lee]

Just watched a piece on Channel 4 News about a church that started an energy cooperative in a village (where they tried fracking in 2013 to overwhelming objection - it began with a B - Balham possibly) and it made me wonder; why don't the CofE and other religious organisations (who pay no tax) use the church roof/ church hall for solar with battery storage? Not the listed/ historic ones obvs. Surely there'd be enough capacity to run them off grid for the couple of short times a week they get punters?

 

[@Lee]

23 hours ago, VWD said:

Lee - you'd need a hefty alternator. Might be possible with the 12v alternator powering engine and another alternator ( 24/36v) powering the invertor setup.

But don't forget that for 1200w you need 100A /at 12v/ 50 A at 24v or 33 A at 36v.

Just some thoughts.

 

 

Ta but this is well on the back burner at the moment. My original question was more an idle thought tbh.

[J.R.]

2 hours ago, @Lee said:

Just watched a piece on Channel 4 News about a church that started an energy cooperative in a village (where they tried fracking in 2013 to overwhelming objection - it began with a B - Balham possibly)

Would that have been Balcombe in West Sussex?

 

If so it was the next village to the one where I have just sold up from after 35 years, there is so much new build housing going on everywhere, thousands within a 3 mile radius of my village and the same everywhere continuously without any gaps, that fracking was probably the least of Balcombe residents concerns and maybe even preferable to the alternative.

[@Lee]

14 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Would that have been Balcombe in West Sussex?

 

If so it was the next village to the one where I have just sold up from after 35 years, there is so much new build housing going on everywhere, thousands within a 3 mile radius of my village and the same everywhere continuously without any gaps, that fracking was probably the least of Balcombe residents concerns and maybe even preferable to the alternative.

Yes, that rings a bell and in another way now you say it. I was watching The Architecture the Railways Built a while ago and there's a lovely viaduct close to it.

 

Eastleigh in Hampshire where I lived had/ has the issue of house building - 000s of houses being built with almost no consideration for infrastructure such as schools, doctors, amenities, roads etc. Profit first rather than upgrading/ replacing social housing as well.

[J.R.]

I am saddened to realise that despite living in the area for 3/4 of my life I don't think I have ever visited the viaduct, I have been over it on the train but you cannot really see down to it, only to afar.

 

If I ever return, which sadly will probably be for a funeral, then I will make a point of visiting it.

 

There is also the Balcombe tunnel, that I have been rather to up close to and inside as a boy.

 

Everywhere I travelled to in the South East in recent years had the same blanket housebuilding going on, and I mean everywhere I could drive 50 miles across country and no longer have the milestones of each village or town that I drove through, each and every one of them sprawled into the next, all of the old landmarks had either disappeared or were unrecognisable.

 

I believe that I got out at the right time (2004) and sold up at the right time (2022) but the future will reveal if the latter was true, it's looking that way though.

Edited 5 January, 2023 by J.R.

[Gaz]

On 02/03/2022 at 12:43, Gaz said:

Might contact my local Borough Council as there was a recent-ish scheme, but after reading about it, saw the application deadline was 2020 🙄

 

Well we didn't so much contact our local Council, but registered interest in a timely invitation. And we've just started the ball rolling.

 

The current recommendation comes via Solar Together, and, subject to survey, is for ten Longi 405w Solar Panels, a GivEnergy inverter, a 4.2kWh GivEnergy battery pack (option to increase to 6, 8 or 12.8kWh) and a MyEnergi Eddi diverter.  All fully installed for £8,200.  

 

Early days and things like panel numbers and other bits and pieces will need to be discussed, but I'm quite looking forward to delving in.

 

Gaz

 

 

[Colin170CR]

33 minutes ago, Gaz said:

 

Well we didn't so much contact our local Council, but registered interest in a timely invitation. And we've just started the ball rolling.

 

The current recommendation comes via Solar Together, and, subject to survey, is for ten Longi 405w Solar Panels, a GivEnergy inverter, a 4.2kWh GivEnergy battery pack (option to increase to 6, 8 or 12.8kWh) and a MyEnergi Eddi diverter.  All fully installed for £8,200.  

 

Early days and things like panel numbers and other bits and pieces will need to be discussed, but I'm quite looking forward to delving in.

 

Gaz

 

 

If you go ahead be prepared for a long lead time for the Solar installation.

I pressed the button & paid a deposit on our solar system in early October 2022 & it got finally got installed & commissioned in April this year. Solar installers are rammed with work at the moment & there are / were supply chain problems getting hold of panels, batteries & labour. 

My system scaffolding & panels went up in Feb this year but & they couldn't get the sparks to install & wire up everything else until the end of April. 

 

 

That said it has started to make a difference. Even with the dull weather we've had recently my Electric spend is around £1.50 / day or less.

I went for 10 x 415 watt panels, GivEnergy Hybrid Inverter, 9.5kWh GivEnergy battery, Eddi, Zappi & a new Consumer unit all of which was at 0% VAT. I think we need more storage because on sunny days we are exporting loads of lecky back to the grid after the battery is full & the hot water is topped up by the Eddi. I'm still learning how to drive the system & how to second guess the next days weather in terms of how much to charge the battery overnight (or not at all) on cheap rate electric before the panels can take over once the sun it up. Ideally you need just enough in the battery to last you through the night / morning until sunup. Get it wrong & you are either short of battery the next day & importing from the grid or, overcharge the battery & land up exporting loads of excess juice back to the grid. 

 

We had an EV charger installed at the same time as the solar but we don't have an EV yet. An EV would help to suck up some of the excess daytime solar (at least in summer) so that's what I'm looking at right now. I will soon be selling my wife's Karoq to fund the EV purchase which will be a used model of some sort. Not decided what model to get yet but we don't need anything as big as the Karoq now. 

 

There are quite a few good YT video channels of guys & couples who have documented their solar journeys or solar tips & examples. "Gary does Solar" is a particularly good one. 

[cheezemonkhai]

On 06/06/2023 at 15:46, Gaz said:

 

Well we didn't so much contact our local Council, but registered interest in a timely invitation. And we've just started the ball rolling.

 

The current recommendation comes via Solar Together, and, subject to survey, is for ten Longi 405w Solar Panels, a GivEnergy inverter, a 4.2kWh GivEnergy battery pack (option to increase to 6, 8 or 12.8kWh) and a MyEnergi Eddi diverter.  All fully installed for £8,200.  

 

Early days and things like panel numbers and other bits and pieces will need to be discussed, but I'm quite looking forward to delving in.

 

Gaz

 

 

Bargain, definitely look for an 8.2 or 9.5 GE battery and personally I’d avoid the smaller ones.

 

Just had a drawing showing capable of fitting 18/19 x 400-420w panels and a battery over an east/west roof, which makes for interesting proposition.

 

5kW inverter and approximately 10/15/20kWh battery seems to be an option too.

 

It was GE but issues with the SoC and east west arrays mean options are likely to be changed .

 

For those who had an eddi, did it ever pay for itself or does it just give a warm fuzzy feeling?

 

 

[SteveTheElder]

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

For those who had an eddi, did it ever pay for itself or does it just give a warm fuzzy feeling?

Don’t have an Eddi but a similar iBoost for the hot water only (I think Eddi has more options which would be good). In the last 12 months we’ve put 690kWh of self generated solar power into the immersion heater - from a 3.6kW array (south facing).

At that rate, I reckon an Eddi would pay for itself in a few years.

[Colin170CR]

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Bargain, definitely look for an 8.2 or 9.5 GE battery and personally I’d avoid the smaller ones.

 

Just had a drawing showing capable of fitting 18/19 x 400-420w panels and a battery over an east/west roof, which makes for interesting proposition.

 

5kW inverter and approximately 10/15/20kWh battery seems to be an option too.

 

It was GE but issues with the SoC and east west arrays mean options are likely to be changed .

 

For those who had an eddi, did it ever pay for itself or does it just give a warm fuzzy feeling?

 

 

Eddi here on a new system SE facing 10 x 415w panel system with GE 3.6kW hybrid inverter & 9.5kWh GE battery. Installed earlier this year so it's a bit early to tell how the Eddi will work out although free HW is a feelgood factor.

 

Last month it put 65.6kWh into the HW tank & so far this month 21.1kWh in 8 days. This is all pure excess solar with no timed or boosted immersion heating from the grid or battery at all. I still have gas boiler HW heating early in the morning each day but nothing else after that. When we get an EV the excess solar will go into the car so the amount of solar available for HW heating via the Eddi will reduce. Of course everything will change when winter comes around.

 

Our HW cylinder has a top mounted long reach immersion heater so when it's operating its not heating all the water in the tank which is why it needs topping up with boiler heat each morning. TBH I don't care how the solar is utilised as long as we can use or store as much of it as we can & avoid exporting as much as possible.

It's early days & I'm still learning how to "drive" the system to get the best results & minimise the use of grid power. That said it is working because our use of grid power has reduced significantly since the installation in April this year.

[Phil-E]

Here in Germany small solar arrays called "Balkonkraftwerke" (Balcony generators) are very popular. Basically usually 2 panels and an inverter that is allowed to have a maximum of 600w output and it just has a standard plug socket on the end. So literally plug and play.

 

I recently bought one and have the panels on my pagoda in the garden. 

 

The beauty is I still have an old dial meter that turns backward when I'm not using power! So in effect acts as a battery since I win back some kWh.

 

Producing between 3-4 kWh a day.