1 hour ago, Pete_Ex-Wino said:

has a pin that comes out/extends as the wax melts, which will compress the spring and move the flap/clapet.

 

I would think that in Greece, for most of the year, fixing the flap in the cold air only position will be best

 

Yes i saw that pin, is flat in one and and pointed at the other end.

 

The Warm position must be blocked 100% ?

5 hours ago, nta16 said:

take it outside where it is cold and get a hair dryer with speed/heat settings and at a steady rate apply and increase heat to the exhaust inlet tube area and you should see it operate

 

I live in 3rd floor, i can't do this at home.

I wonder if i make this flap work as manually, the strength of the incoming air (from the front grille) would be capable to make it close? I mean at 40Km speed could make it go back and ''seal'' the hole of the hot air?

Think of it like a coolant thermostat, so it opens and closes itself based on temperature.

 

You do not need any air pressure just the surroundings cold enough so that the air filter flap is position is at the cold setting and then when heat is applied it moves over to the warm setting.

 

I just thought if you were outside in the cold it would better replicate how it will be when fitted to the car - but I do not want your leaning out of a 3rd floor window with the air filter in one hand and hair dryer in the other, in case you drop either or fall out the window yourself. 😄

 

If inside your home the flap is at its cold setting then you can do it there just it will warm quicker as presumably your home is warmer than outside.

 

I do not know and can not see from the photos what sort of mechanism there is for controlling the flap other than the thermostat and spring but if it is like the coolant thermostat then it will not suddenly snap from one setting to the other in one instant movement at one precise temperature.  A coolant thermostat starts to open around its stated temperature but is not fully open until it reaches a higher temperature and will be partially open between those temperatures.

 

43 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I do not know and can not see from the photos what sort of mechanism there is for controlling the flap other than the thermostat and spring

 

The thermostat with the pin pushes the rod and opens the flap and when withdraws the flap goes back to normal position (which closes the cool air).

Hot air->thermostat warm->pushes pin->rod goes front->opens the flap.

Since has wax inside soon or later there will be a leak and the rod will not moved (front or back) and will stay in one position and ''game over''.

 

The rod is something like this:

 

 

In the end has a hook and it grabs the flap so it controls the movement (Front-back).

 

I wonder if i make a simple flap with lighter plastic or with aluminum tape, the incoming cool air after (for example) 40 Km speed could be capable to push it back and close the Hot air hole?

Let's say it can, then in city traffic when the flap is back the Hot air from the manifold can push it to open a little bit?

 

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

In the end has a hook and it grabs the flap so it controls the movement (Front-back).

That is the bit I did not see.

 

 

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I wonder if i make a simple flap with lighter plastic or with aluminum tape, the incoming cool air after (for example) 40 Km speed could be capable to push it back and close the Hot air hole?

Let's say it can, then in city traffic when the flap is back the Hot air from the manifold can push it to open a little bit?

I sometimes wonder if you are joking - no, either check the flap works and fit that air filter or keep the air filter you have fitted without the flap.  The flap is about temperature control which could be required when the car is static or above or below 40kph.

 

Stop worrying, if the air filter thermostat stops working you already know you can fit it so that the exhaust side is blocked off and fresh air side open (is that not what you have now?)

 

12 hours ago, nta16 said:

 

I sometimes wonder if you are joking

 

Stop worrying, if the air filter thermostat stops working you already know you can fit it so that the exhaust side is blocked off and fresh air side open (is that not what you have now?)

 

 

The Mediterranean people when the joking do it obviously and in internet they add a LOL or an emoticon with smile.

 

As @Pete_Ex-Wino said it's not a reliable item, as you can see below there is no ETKA number for this part, it's not something you can buy it separately.

 

 

 

So if after a years or two the flap stay in the closed position blocking the cool air and allowing only the hot air HOW how will you find out?

Let's say you are in a highway and the car start showing signs of poor performance, the last thing that will come to your mind is that flap.

IF that air filter thermostat was reliable there would be no worry by me.

Here is the connection, the flap has an U shape and the rod a Π shape, it clicks and thus controls it.

 

 

 

That air filter sensor is very sensitive, a little bit of rubbing by hand and immediately reacts.

 

 

 

The crucial point is ''for how long"?

How long do they usually last, how old is that one, new or second hand.

 

You have proved that it at least works now.  If it is fully open at 30c then it may well begin to open well before this which is why I was thinking to have it somewhere well below 30c to test it to your satisfaction that it fully opens and fully closes.

 

If you are that worried about it failing in the hot position then do not fit it that way you are no worse off than you have been for the last 20 years, IIRC your cold start issues were not there for the first 18 years of this so it is very unlikely to be a major contributing factor.

 

As it is working you could as an experiment fit it for a numbers of days and see if it has any effect at all on your second cold start issue, then remove it for a few days to confirm any difference and refit for a few days, normally you would do three lots or more of it fitted and not fitted to check findings are not just a coincidence.

 

When you removed that valve did you also remove hose 19 fitted and block off the hot inlet tube opening?

 

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

How long do they usually last, how old is that one, new or second hand.

 

Brand new, tested with heat gun and refrigerator and works as it should be.

Cold start: allows hot air to come to the air filter helping the starting process.

As the time passes and you are not in a boulevard or highway the temperature rises so it closes the hot air hole allowing only fresh air to come from grille.

 

 

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

When you removed that valve did you also remove hose 19 fitted and block off the hot inlet tube opening?

 

Yes,there was no reason to feed with hot air the filter all the time, this is no good in a trip.

I cover the hole and the car had only one (and for some months two) entries of cold air only. 

 

My problem is if it stucks on the 1st position while i am in a highway or a mountain route i will have a performance problem plus poor combustion.

That flap mechanism is not visible and i have to bent in a very Hot engine to find the solution.

Edited 23 February, 20224 yr by D.FYLAKTOS

I understand all you have put I did not word my question well, I meant -

 

how old is the valve you now have?

 

how long do these valves normally continue to work reliably?

 

If this valve is newly made then you have, possibly, the expected life of a new valve but if it is second hand or not newly made then how old is it to subtract off the life of a newly made valve.

 

I am sure if you are really worried you could fit and wire microswitch to show a warning light for when the flap is closed off from fresh air inlet or perhaps a system to show the position of the flap in case it gets stuck midway, air temperature gauge for inside the air filter but then how are you to know if those monitoring systems are fully functioning or accurate.  You would also need to built in test or checks, light on with ignition perhaps as a basic but where does this all end how far do you want to go how sophisticated or not, air temperature gauge inside the air filter housing.

 

You have not complained about the second cold starts or the fuel consumption for the vast majority of the 18 years this valve was not fitted.

 

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

how old is the valve you now have?

 

 

I have not that air filter box thermostat since 2002, has been removed and i can not find it in my closed of spare parts.

I bought and installed a new at 2022 because i want to solve the problem with my ''second'' cold starts. Turning back the time it was my mistake that i removed that item but as already said i had a ''bad advisor''.

 

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

You have not complained about the second cold starts or the fuel consumption for the vast majority of the 18 years this valve was not fitted.

 

ALL the ols cold starts were out in the fresh air and i was traveling 1-2 times per week in a boulevard and sometimes in the highway. I didn't gave any special attention of how many minutes the rpm were at 1100 because i was in a hurry to return home after work.

For 2+ years things are different, cold starts in parking garage-hard traffic-not high rpm-mainly 1st and 2nd gear etc, all of these didn't existed in my life so far.

The car was clogged and when the TC-6 arrived finally i had a tool to work, i have live indication of what's happening and that socked me.

 

Step by step, making corrections i am lowering the fuel consumption, from the worst of 14,7 ltr/ 100 Km now i am at 10,7 (i have seen 10,6) ltr/ 100 Km and i am optimistic that i will manege to make it better.

D.FYLAKTOS many apologises I somehow totally missed that you had already put that part was brand new.  As such I would imagine it at least has a 1 year warranty on it but would expect it to last many years.  How many years did the original part last for owners of other Felicias, perhaps you could put up another thread asking this.

 

I did not realise that both your present driving and parking was only for the last two years I thought it just related to a Covid situation.

 

Yes the car will be clogged with this type of driving and very few longer runs, this would be 'Severe' driving conditions which would require working to the 'Severe Servicing Schedule' which may be listed in your Driver's Handbook, basically more frequent regular servicing, for the engine changing the air filter, *engine oil & filter, keeping things clear and clean, clean crankcase or oil emissions.  Personally I think using a tankful of petrol with additional cleaning additives already in the petrol leading up to the service and just after the service is a good idea as well as occasionally in between services.

 

14.7 ltr/100 Km  (19.2 mpg) to 10.7 ltr /100 (26.4 mpg) is a big percentage increase already, well done.

 

(* again the better the type of oil the better protection it will give and that protection last for longer) for longer)

 

Edited 24 February, 20224 yr by nta16

4 hours ago, nta16 said:

I did not realise that both your present driving and parking was only for the last two years I thought it just related to a Covid situation

 

Covid measures are here in Greece for 2 years.

All the previous years i didn't pay attention to my night cold starts, they were brief, 1-2 times per week i was in a boulevard and i could engage even the 4th gear and the fuel consumption was good.

Then came the mistake from the mechanic (wrong valve gaps) plus the NGK which didn't worked good and the very thick coolant and the fuel consumption started rising.

Additionally he restrictions from the Covid made things in fuel consumption worst as ever.

 

I have some photos to upload from the instalation of the new air filter plus the flap mechanism and for few days i will put the ''hot air'' hose in different positions to find what's best.

Today my night cold start wasn't too short but not 3:45 as the old ones, tomorrow i will use the timer to see if there is any improvement in that sector.

In the road things are good, one click lower noise at idle (traffic light) from the air filter box and in acceleration.

 

I have also some photos to show from the previous coolant expansion reservoir which had a bad look like dirty with a black and sticky substance on the walls.

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

In the road things are good, one click lower noise at idle (traffic light) from the air filter box and in acceleration.

I am surprised at that, any other changes to the air filter or air filter box.

 

12 hours ago, nta16 said:

I am surprised at that, any other changes to the air filter or air filter box.

 

 

Modifying the entrance of the fresh air from the grill makes a tiny difference in sound and performance, i have made in the past many modifications and when there is an exaggeration you hear a ''roarrrr" sound especially at high rpm but that does not mean more Hp (as some young driver believe).

 

 

 

What looks like a small round hole actually is a big oval hole

 

 

 

The part No15 is hard plastic tube S style, if you remove that part then every time you press the pedal far more air comes inside the filter, the sound is more rough but the raising of performance is controversial.

One drawback of that modification is when the engine bay is getting hot (city traffic) the air filter gets hot air only and that is not good.

 

The factory paper filter (with the stock entrance) if far the most quiet combination especially in city (idle-acceleration).

 

 

Here is the mechanism from another view.

 

 

 

The code of this part is VW  9A 419 133129826

and i haven't manage to find it in the web to buy it separately.

 

 

 

Here is inside the air filter box, the hot air from the exhaust manifold hits this thinner spring which after few minutes due to heat triggers the mechanism.

The drawing of the air box is not the best when compared to the actual item.

 

I would leave the airbox as it was designed, noise is one of the design considerations but also its real purpose of getting sufficient filtered air to where it is needed and that could include hose shapes and their position.  Obviously there might have been design and manufacture compromises for many reasons but often going away from factory standard, and especially without purposeful tuning after, can often reduce rather than increase performance.

 

Removing that valve was done so long ago that you forgot (which I totally understand) it was a modification when I asked if, other than the reprogramming, your car was modified and I now wonder if it will make a pleasing difference to your second cold start idling fuel consumption and time.  On such a short journey of its type small differences might give more noticeable results rather than you previous overall usage.  And this also brings in perhaps more regular air filter changes to keep the volume, and cleaned, air getting into your engine.

 

With my old cars with paper filters I used to change the filters every 6 months as it was so cheap and easy to do even though the cars were not used in serve driving conditions, the carbs and engines seemed to appreciate it.  Also when I was using standard (reasonable quality) oil I changed the engine oil and filter every 6 months regardless of mileage and again the engines seemed to like that.  I went to annual engine oil and filter changes when I went to better quality oils and despite the higher prices it worked out less cost annually.  As you saw in the video I do not race my cars but I do expect them to go well when spirited driving is available.

 

Edited 25 February, 20224 yr by nta16

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

The drawing of the air box is not the best when compared to the actual item.

 

Yes, many times this is a problem trying to ''marry'' this to the real engine parts when it's time to order an item in an e-shop.

 

Last night i had the chance to go to a boulevard, enough distance to put the 4th gear and reach the speed of 80Km, i was happy when i returned home and the TC-6 showed 10,48 ltr/ 100Km (that's 24,650 mpg) which is my record so far for City fuel consumption.

Today home to work, normal traffic and i have 10,58 ltr/ 100Km (which is 24,885 mpg) so generally speaking things are getting better.

For sure the new spark plugs were a ''savior'' and i am waiting to see the contribution of the stock air filter design, keep in mind that for 20 years i was not using it so now i must apreciate some things from the beginning.

Great to hear things are improving, a bit early yet to say how well the plugs are for overall use but from the last set they were a change of manufacturer, manufacture, type and 4k-km used to new.

 

It does not matter that you do not have records from up to 20 years ago as since that time your cars has had up to 20 years of use and you are concerned about how it operates with your reprogrammed car now and it is possible with modern materials, parts and oils to improve on 20 years ago but then it also depends if you ran E10 petrol back then and now.

 

A topic for another thread is for serve driving conditions hastening the change of gearbox oil and the opportunity to not only change but improve the oil as engine and gearbox are so close and in the same compartment the heat transfer is more.  You have already changed your gear wotsit to tighten lever movement so subject to your clutch being in reasonable condition, and gearbox oil level already topped up, then you should notice any small improvement with the change of gearbox oil, and possibly improved oil, makes.  Same as with your power steering fluid change many will tell you the improvement is only placebo, especially many 'mechanics' and 'engineers'.

 

Edited 25 February, 20224 yr by nta16

57 minutes ago, nta16 said:

with the change of gearbox oil 

Same as with your power steering fluid change many will tell you the improvement is only placebo, especially many 'mechanics' and 'engineers'.

 

I changed the gear box oil few years back, i used Motul Motylgear 75W-90, i have to check back home my notes for the next change.

 

''Hey mechanic, i hear some noises when i turn the steering wheel from lock to lock, especially inside the parking''

''What noise?''

''It's like gggggnnnk, do i have a problem with hydraulics?''

''Don't worry, that is an old car, they do it often, no problem you will use to it''

 

I didn't believe him, i checked the oil level at the reservoir, one click BELOW the Min (!) and i was continiouing to use the car i will had major problem which also could cost me a fortune to fix it.

48 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

i used Motul Motylgear 75W-90

What! You do realise that is a GL5 !!  Well at least it is now if it was not before.  I thought it was you would not trust a GL5, even if it has -  "Suitable for any type of seal and yellow material used in gearboxes design" - and you stick with GL4. - https://www.motul.com/gb/en/products/motylgear-75w90

 

 

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

''Don't worry, that is an old car, they do it often, no problem you will use to it''

Got to be a poor quality and lazy mechanic that does not even bother to check fluid levels, primary basic check, but there are a lot about, unfortunately.

 

MOTYLGEAR_75W-90_en_FR_motul_45000_20210712.pdf

Here is the new air filter box while is installed.

 

 

The flap is closed, it will open when the temperature (of the air through the hose from the manifold) rises.

 

 

 

Now it's ready, i use a heat resistance hose (as the factory had) plus in the connection i use adhesive tape which can hold till 150 'C.

For heat insulation i wrapped the upper hose with aluminium tape which can stand till 200 'C

All good stuff.  Is the hose that branches off to the PCV valve silicone?

 

18 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Is the hose that branches off to the PCV valve silicone?

 

 

The hose beneath the aluminium heat tape is this

https://www.skoda-parts.com/data/items/56/50741382eef1c.jpg

 

The long hose is factory (is for A/C) and the hose attached to the oil cap is reinforced and can stand temperatures up to 120 'C (it's for the after gas, the factory sends them back to the throttle for lubrication but i didn't like the idea).

Sorry seeing it again I see it is two different hoses.