47 minutes ago, toot said:

Well until we hear from experts we will not know, but on public view these people must know what they are doing.

 

The Video guy does not know what the car is and neither do i.  

As to his other comments, the blind leading the blind IMO.

 

PS

We have an Ex Mariner that participates in this thread.

Maybe others as well with knowledge of ships and fires and fire fighting & salvage. 

 

Under water,. not in water.

 

 

 

Lithium hates water. It gets angry and very hot and will boil the water. 

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

What I do find of interest and to a large extent agree with him is that of the range between charges does not really make EV's a direct like for like replacement and also the point that I feel he is trying to make is that currently you are unable to jump into your EV and just take off for a long trip and stick to the same route that you would with an ICE, you just know that when you are getting low on fuel and the warning bong and light etc have been activated, that you will come across a filling station a few miles. All without having to deviate away from the main road and direct route that you are on and also that when you get there, there will be more than 1 or 2 pumps for you to use, and you won't have to wait long if they are all in use. With an EV that is not the case today, that to me is really what he is saying and if they can find ways to address those issues what is going to be left for him???

True, and the big elephant in the room is that infrastructure is not improving fast enough to keep up with the upcoming mass adoption.

 

But the user experience depends heavily on the car. Drive a ~100 miles range EV will be more affected by the infrastructure gaps than a 300 miles EV. Drive an EV that routes you to their reliable network will effectively be same as jumping in to petrol/diesel and take off for a long trip: zero pre-planning required.

 

The problem isn't with the technology, it's due to government not investing enough in the infrastructure and the laggy incumbent manufacturers doing their best to delay the inevitable.

16 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

On a normal ship I expect they would use water as cargo ships in particular place cargo in holds and there are many holds along the length of the ship so they could theoretically almost flood a hold if required to fight a fire as there are watertight bulkheads between holds. That is not the case on car carriers as the entire level/deck is just like that of a multi-storey car park with ramps going from floor to floor which can be sealed off. But there are no partitions to break up that entire level, so water would be free to rush about the deck/level as the ship rolls on the waves. The same reason why they have to tie each car down to the deck and that prevents fire blankets being used to seal the fire off  

 

Not sure what a normal ship is but in the bulk carriers I served on we had CO2 flooding for the engine room.  Engine room being around 30m wide, 40m long and 50M high. Dozens of full sized CO2 bottles ie about 1.5m high bottles with about a diameter around 30 cms or so, a bank of around a hundred of them.  Yes we would use sea water fire pumps, either from the engine room or the forecastle, which was about 250M or 700 foot from the engine room.  Any experienced and good sailor would not to pour much water on cargo like grain which could expand and split the ship like a opening zip if it expanded.

 

 

7 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Not sure what a normal ship is but in the bulk carriers I served on we had CO2 flooding for the engine room.  Engine room being around 30m wide, 40m long and 50M high. Dozens of full sized CO2 bottles ie about 1.5m high bottles with about a diameter around 30 cms or so, a bank of around a hundred of them.  Yes we would use sea water fire pumps, either from the engine room or the forecastle, which was about 250M or 700 foot from the engine room.  Any experienced and good sailor would not to pour much water on cargo like grain which could expand and split the ship like a opening zip if it expanded.

 

 

Wow, yes I could imagine grain could do that.

15 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Wow, yes I could imagine grain could do that.

I was watching The 1970s Supermarket on Channel 5 last week. They showed how much (little) wheat went into a pack of Sugar Puffs if you want to get an idea of how much it expands.

https://www.channel5.com/show/the-1970s-supermarket/season-1/episode-3

I loved Sugar Puffs as a kid, used to eat them out of the box like sweets (well they were sort of a super sweet pop corn and kids are 99% fuelled by sugar   ) 

Same. And Frosties, Coco Pops or whatever was sweet  

I love toffee pop corn, which is really just another form of sugar puffs I expect.

I tried putting milk on Toffee Popcorn...it was not a success 

It just runs off lol.

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Wow, yes I could imagine grain could do that.

 

Tapioca disaster in Cardiff (I think it was actually Barry but there about), 1500 tonnes of Tapioca, along with a cargo of wood, wood caught fire and started to cook the tapioca.

7 food disaster including the tapioca one, ships was distorted after this and only fit for scrap I gather.....

 

https://allthatsinteresting.com/deadly-food-disasters 

 

love how this debate went to a serial on cereals 😀 much more interesting 

It is, and so easy to go buy some and see if the memory of them and how they taste now is as you like.

I would eat Sugar Puffs or Frosties all the time, but i am already a fat barsteward with type 2 diabetes.

 

Just to brighten up your day, if you get type 2 diabetes and lose a leg or 2 then you might end up driving an automatic or even an EV.

 

Thought of the day, watch your diet or you might end up driving a dodgem or worse.

 

28 minutes ago, promomast said:

love how this debate went to a serial on cereals 😀 much more interesting 

That is the beauty of a forum that is not so rigid about rules, as long as people are not disrespectful of others 👍

8 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is the beauty of a forum that is not so rigid about rules, as long as people are not disrespectful of others 👍

I must say one thing, it really is important that if we are talking about problem solving that these are posted in the right sections so others with similar issues can find thread. 

There will be some people getting Government Grants and from the food industry into research about obesity among EV drivers & the cost in the future to the UK.

All these Coffee / Cake stops and going into places just to use a toilet.

Then the peeing around the vicinity of EV charging hubs with no facilities.

 

Like the issue for HGV drivers and others and lay-byes / stop over places with no facilities.

 

There is the commercial opportunity for 'Reasonably priced charging' & suitable facilities provided by local authorities at Park & Rides and th there are Low Emission Hubs required, for Commercial Vehicle change over points for local deliveries.

 

'Automated toilets work'.  Toilets that are automated and self clean are what was required years ago and were introduced then seemed to be removed.

Plenty people will pay a £1 for getting a crap rather than having to maybe get into some Fast Food place that serves crap to go!

 

As it is even where there are Park & Rides in Scotland there might not even be 24 hour toilet facilities or even 6 hours in a day facilities. 

 

The Governments are full of Wind, P!sh and Solar but not really moving with the times.

Edited 5 September, 20232 yr by toot

Back on EV's. It's world EV day 9th Sep (whatever that means) 
https://www.worldevday.org/

 

Oxford are offering free charging for that day 
https://news.oxfordshire.gov.uk/electric-vehicle-charging-and-hire-offers-across-oxfordshire-this-world-ev-day/ 
 

what i know about EV's a neighbour retired founding environmental journalist of the independent ... decided to buy a tesla when they arrived ... yup now has drive charging unit ... we were travelling together recently and he told me he had needed a new tyre on the hurry up ... didn't get any discount so it cost £300 !! ... shocked as i multiplied by 4 

 

wtf ... well it's an acoustic tyre he added and what does that do ... runs quieter .. the car is already quiet but tyre/road noise interferes with that hence acoustic ones 

 

so on our return i went up to my buddies at AAK here (used to run there h&s and debt stuff) ... laure .. acoustic tyres ! what makes them cost 300 squids ? 

 

tom over here ... he had gone to a bin area and pulled out a lump of condensed black foam (yup magjc moment) this feel it is stuck inside the tyre it takes up air space ... over here .. bangs plasterboard stud wall see noisy lots of air in it ... over here ... bangs solid brick wall ... less air less noise ... thats what the foam stuck inside the tyre does ... less air space less noise ... ok 

 

I've been learning this crazy stuff from him for years 

 

also did you read the structural engineers society in the UK have researched 1960's to 1970's car parks and warned they will not take being full of over weight EV's ... probably collapse ... just a matter of how soon 

 

huge climb in micro tyre rubber elements in the air excessively now entirely from truck weight EV's shredding there tyres on tarmac 

 

and we have all seen fire man stand back and watch EV fire's burning intensely by the road side and removing EV's from a motorway can only be via transporter trucks  they can't be towed 

 

all in all add the cost of those batteries after 5 yes max and the chemical footprint of the lithium iron ... and diesels dont look quite so bad overall  

toot ... sorry to hear about your health issues ... i admire your knowledge you know that ... and thank you for day i arrived here 

 

tom ba

@promomast

I have no heath issues, thanks,

never been healthier since i was fat and 40 and eventually was diagnosed as type 2 diabetic after a year of high blood pressure and being asked, 'are you diabetic?' and saying no.

Eventually i was asked 'have you ever been tested?' 

 

As to EV fires, car parks and car weight. EV,s vs SUV,s etc.   44 pages of that just in this thread.

 

Different cars, different needs.

Run a BMW with staggard tyres, run flats and see the price range of those.

 

This is just a choice of Tesla Tyres in this size.

Edited 5 September, 20232 yr by toot

hi toot .. that's much better news sorry i read that wrongly ... ill edit that 

 

i was going to take the time to read the 30 odd pages prior to breakfast preferences 

so ill do that now 

 

i've purchased a noco boost xl jump start kit and the battery charging kit that shares 'plug in' on battery ... as i have a small 'drain' to find and the battery / start has gone in a few days .. i have a new battery / belts and Alternator fitted recently 

 

where should i post that info ? 

38 minutes ago, promomast said:

what i know about EV's a neighbour retired founding environmental journalist of the independent ... decided to buy a tesla when they arrived ... yup now has drive charging unit ... we were travelling together recently and he told me he had needed a new tyre on the hurry up ... didn't get any discount so it cost £300 !! ... shocked as i multiplied by 4 

 

wtf ... well it's an acoustic tyre he added and what does that do ... runs quieter .. the car is already quiet but tyre/road noise interferes with that hence acoustic ones 

 

so on our return i went up to my buddies at AAK here (used to run there h&s and debt stuff) ... laure .. acoustic tyres ! what makes them cost 300 squids ? 

 

tom over here ... he had gone to a bin area and pulled out a lump of condensed black foam (yup magjc moment) this feel it is stuck inside the tyre it takes up air space ... over here .. bangs plasterboard stud wall see noisy lots of air in it ... over here ... bangs solid brick wall ... less air less noise ... thats what the foam stuck inside the tyre does ... less air space less noise ... ok 

 

I've been learning this crazy stuff from him for years 

 

also did you read the structural engineers society in the UK have researched 1960's to 1970's car parks and warned they will not take being full of over weight EV's ... probably collapse ... just a matter of how soon 

 

huge climb in micro tyre rubber elements in the air excessively now entirely from truck weight EV's shredding there tyres on tarmac 

 

and we have all seen fire man stand back and watch EV fire's burning intensely by the road side and removing EV's from a motorway can only be via transporter trucks  they can't be towed 

 

all in all add the cost of those batteries after 5 yes max and the chemical footprint of the lithium iron ... and diesels dont look quite so bad overall  

Well I agree with much of what you have said, but the weight issue does also depend on the size of the vehicle and what it is made from. But that aside, batteries are indeed incredibly heavy and so is the power plant, but equally so is the power plant in an ICE car so there are 2 things to consider here, 1 is that modern ICE cars are getting larger and heavier anyway and also have a fuel tank which when full adds more weight. On the other hand EV cars do not weigh any more when they are fully charged, than they do when they run out of charge.

 

There are many aspects to whole debate, as an ICE car drives along its weight gets less, an EV remains constant (ignoring tyre wear) so an ICE actually gets more efficient as the fuel tank gets emptied, so we have to compare ICE car with full tank against the EV equivalent to see which is heavier and the results will vary depending on model and specs etc. But like you, I also saw that same report and I can't hep but think that must be some substance in it as the publication does not have a vested interest either way. I do know that my local multi story car park built in the late 60s has recently been strengthened.

 

The rest of your post I agree 100% with.

Edited 5 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

thanks for that info Graham ... i like the maths of decreasing weight ... my maths isn't up to that im sorry to admit 

 

oh to add ... cereals ..  i'm a frosties and cold whole milk kinda guy forever now it seems  

1 minute ago, promomast said:

oh to add ... cereals ..  i'm a frosties and cold whole milk kinda guy forever now it seems  

On the cereals side, I'm a shreddies and cold whole milk guy and no sugar on the shreddies.

Those surveyors might be best concentrating on Schools, Hospitals , Court building etc.

 

Car parks can get closed, or have reduction on usage, then demolished and rebuilt and there might be disruption for a month o 12 for motorists / commuters, 

have to demolish a school of exclude people from it and that is real disruption.

 

..............

What is the weight of lets say 5 Imperial Gallons of petrol, and how more efficient is the vehicle with that weight reduction?

The Engineers here will know that, or very quickly be able to check. 

 

'Just add lightness' as one famous designer of cars said. 

Run the car on LPG and maybe get a higher octane and a weight advantage and remember all the safety stuff for fire warnings.

Edited 5 September, 20232 yr by toot