56 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

..... I wasn't clear. I meant to say one is something you've already paid for, the other is something that is understood to be locked when purchasing.

 

Morally, it's on same level as BMW heated seats. But in practice, it's no different to everything else that can be software locked, had been software locked. Eg. I turned on my Octavia cornering fogs using OBD, otherwise it was a software locked feature. Many software have locks unless paid. Even computer hardware had software unlocks.

 

I must say that thinking about, it sounds a bit far-fetched, as someone else hinted at, it maybe have a far darker reason for that and that may be revealed in time if we all wait until the code is cracked.

56 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Software unlocks don't count towards the £40k VED threshold.

VED also doesn't take into account of battery size, IMHO unfortunately.

 

I personally think taxation need to focus people's minds on efficiency. Fuel duty does this. pre-2017 VED also does this to some degree. There's no such tax for EV and it's a shame. If it were up to me, I'd put something similar to expensive-car-tax based on battery size.  (eg big battery car pay more for first few years)  Efficiency is everything.

I think it would all depend on the value of that unlock gave you, in the UK that $4,500 certainly add to the BIK as the retail value has shot up. So it also have a knock affect on VED as a private buyer.

56 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I suggest you do some research before drawing your "problems" conclusion.

 

Here is how it works with Tesla, just make an appointment via the app. They run their own "service centre" and "rangers"

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/vehicle-maintenance

I'm not so sure if that is the plain truth, I find it exceedingly hard to find a Tesla has managed to build up their own network of Tesla owned and operated service centres on the global scale that their website suggests when no other company has done that. Furthermore, I think its much more likely that it is a franchise system like McDonalds where they insist that only their name is used for the business. There is a large showroom and service centre in my city on the same site as Mercedes Benz and they operate as Tesla Chelmsford in one building and Mercedes-Benz Chelmsford in the other building.

56 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

For what it's worth, I've been doing fine charging 3 EV's using a single charge point (old one installed in 2017 no less) only using overnight tariff, been going on for about 2 months now.

My 78 kWh MY, my wife's ~18 kWh Leaf, my neighbour's new ~78 kWh Genesis something EV until they get their charge point and smart meter sorted.

 

Yes, it's different to street parking lottery. Ultimately I have the final say who gets to charge tonight. But with some friendly whatsapp messages, it's all very manageable. Similarly at workplace, we have a whatsapp group for the 8 charging spots, about 20 EV's charge using it throughout the day, works out okay.

 

Hardly the same as having 28 plus drivers, all competing for just 4 chargers overnight so that can commute to their place of work in the morning is it 🙄

56 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

What happened to those? I used to see them around the city (London). I don't remember seeing one in recent years.

Well, we know at least 5 of them still appear to be there, see my other posting.

Edited 26 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

22 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherThe Gridserve was not there for him, but he is haming it up. 

I am watching and am as stupid as others are and many will be just to pick up on the pretend stupidity of it all.

He has a big following & it will be many sadists among them / us.

 

Dont turn off the AC if needed, but if you think you have to 'eek out range' at least see if it makes a difference, but then if you want the radio dont put that off.

 

If time is short, forget filming in the car saying how long it takes, get charging and then talk.

But the videos pays for the charging. 

 

Agreed, he is haming it up and also his titles are clickbait, but then again that is his only income, so he has to attract views in order to get monetised. What he is doing is no different to what newspapers do to entice buyers to buy their paper to read the latest piece of spiced up news.

Why confused Graham ?

 

Source London have just over 2,000 charge points, this was run by my a subsidiary of my company as were a few dozen specially made EVs under the Blue Car name which was also part of the my multinational conglomerate that as well as rolling out charge points actually had cars made, thousands of them, using our propatory solid state batteries ?

 

Is the something that is confusing about that or something else ??     

 

43 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Why confused Graham ?

 

Source London have just over 2,000 charge points, this was run by my a subsidiary of my company as were a few dozen specially made EVs under the Blue Car name which was also part of the my multinational conglomerate that as well as rolling out charge points actually had cars made, thousands of them, using our propatory solid state batteries ?

 

Is the something that is confusing about that or something else ??     

 

Sorry, I was confused with the different numbers being quoted, between tens of thousands and the then 2,000 but like others have said it was not made particularly clear, and that I can understand as one's brain races ahead faster than, at least it does for me, I can type and I often have to back and read and edit it and read it again many times before posting and then sometimes bits are missing lol. I have now changed my reaction to like.

Edited 26 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

7 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

Just out of interest what are his thoughts on the Genesis...   For some reason I find them quite interesting and an attractive design with the massive Hyundai Kia conglomerate behind them. 

The cabin feels luxurious, excellent quality and attention to detail. The software is dreadful, settings all over the place and laggy. We spent 20min tying to set off-peak scheduling charging, turns out need to set departure time to make that option available. Software is worse than Kia EV6 I’ve test driven and despite the conglomerate and based on same vehicle platform, no Intelligent Octopus integration. 

I think viewed as traditional car, they are great alternative to Audi. They do sell other dressed up Kia/Hyundai models including ICE cars. 
 

But same as Skoda vs Audi, we are on this forum for a reason. I wouldn’t pay more for Genesis when there’s cheaper Hyundai on same platform using same running gears. 

7 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I must say that thinking about, it sounds a bit far-fetched, as someone else hinted at, it maybe have a far darker reason for that and that may be revealed in time if we all wait until the code is cracked

Code is unlikely to be cracked because Tesla continuously keep everything patched up via OTA updates. 
 

It was hinted to hide degradation. This is unlikely if you think about their approach to this. If it was their true intention, most vehicles sold will have software unlockable battery capacity. So that if a large percent of people don’t buy software unlock, they wouldn’t know about degradation. But that’s not how they operate, they mostly sell full battery capacity. Only software limit when they want to adjust vehicle starting price to appeal to broader market. 
 

7 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think it would all depend on the value of that unlock gave you, in the UK that $4,500 certainly add to the BIK as the retail value has shot up. So it also have a knock affect on VED as a private buyer

You think or you have seen prior example/evidence? 

Enhanced Autopilot (£3500) purchased after delivery of vehicle does not change BIK, highly probably wouldn’t affect VED in 2025. 
 

On your Tesla franchising service centre theory. It’s a possibility, it would explain variation people experience between service centres. 
But it’s still miles better than a dealership taking a cut from purchase price (delivery does not involve service centre). Also miles better when some diagnostics can be done by actual engineers designed the car for free without dragging it to dealership and pay half hour labour for a low level tech to read error codes. 

But interest theory, I shall ask technician if I ever have work done by them. But I plan to change air filters myself, no need to service the vehicle. 

They blow no myths out the water.

Far too many have not even the smallest of clues.    Not straightforward to understand IMO, or to get people to understand. 

The worst are 'salespeople'. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 August, 20232 yr by toot

@Graham Butcher I am sitting charging free.  I put my washing in the Outdoor self service launderette for £5.50 and today it said 76 minutes. 38 mins  last time.  I moved 10 feet and washed the car and that was £3 for 6 minutes, then moved to charge and the car has charged quicker than the washing had taken and going to get it.   Money saved charging paid for clean clothes and car and my phone and chrome book are both charged up.   Lovely day for this.  I will one day live in a electric  camper van and live this way while my health is good.   You just need to Sus out electric and water points and waste disposal. I did it a few years back in a MWB, Medium Height Transit Diesel durashift that looked like a works van and got parked where ever with a Blue Badge and I was never moved on. Used all sorts of car parks and facilities and lived for Much Cheapness. 

Edited 27 August, 20232 yr by toot

2 hours ago, toot said:

They blow no myths out the water.

Far too many have not even the smallest of clues.    Not straightforward to understand IMO, or to get people to understand. 

The worst are 'salespeople'. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All cars these days are complicated when they go wrong and when they do it is most likely to something electronic. Just smallest thing like a ultra small surface mounted resistor on printed circuit board, the resistor probably only measures 2 or 3mm but can kill your car. This is true regardless of how the car is powered. That said however EV's employ much more electronics than ICE cars. Think back to the days when the nearest a car got electronics was the capacitor across the points on a distributor. All other functions were controlled via switches and anybody could repair almost everything apart from the radio. These days some cars like Tesla's even have touch touch control for the heater etc via a large digital screen. It just adds an extra layer of complexity to things that are not really required. 

It took us a good few years living to get old and lots of miles under our wheels and maybe many vehicles.  Maybe lots of keepers and repeat purchases and maybe others punted quick.  I like physical buttons and even those can be complicated.   Basically for me it is KISS now and comfort and reliability while available and that will still be the rest of my driving years even if I go back to a 30 year old ICE.  I have a 17 year old one without a high mileage. 

 

This one is for @lol-lol

This Taxi driver does this all the time.

2 7 kW posts available but late night to lazy or stupid or does not carry a cable so plugs into the 43 kW AC depriving anyone that comes into town of the only 2 available, 1 here and another 1/2 a mile away that also gets hogged.

Fully charged and still blocking the bay hours later.  At least the charger un-plugs if you can then get near to use it.

 

 

Edited 27 August, 20232 yr by toot

Just in case there is anybody here who is a bit puzzled by what I was referring to my post about the surface mount resistor here are some photos I've taken of a computer monitor video card (1)  that is responsible for the images you see on your screen, the cables are going to the power supply printed circuit board which funnily enough is some 3.5 times larger. I placed a 5 pence piece on the board and photographed it (2), then placed it under my microscope and took another photo (3) then zoomed in and took another photo (4) .

 

The items highlighted in red are the surface mounted resistors, those highlighted in yellow are transistors and item highlighted in white is a capacitor and any single one of those failing has the potential of bringing your car to halt and really spoiling your day big time.

 

In EV's there are going simply loads of these types of things, maybe running to thousands throughout the car some of the integrated circuits called "chips" can have billions of transistors within them such as the case of microprocessors or as they are more commonly called CPU's. How Many Transistors Are in a CPU? [Updated 2023] | DeviceTests

@Graham Butcherthose that have run fleets of EV,s for over a decade now with many millions of miles in UK weather will be the ones that might know if there is much to worry about.

I know one such place and the issue are the non EV, VW Group TDI,s cars and Mini busses with 'Engine warning lights' being the real problem.

I was on a shuttle bus at the golf the other day as one driver stopped next to another one and asking do we just ignore this?

 

A friends Taxi firm's EV,s did 1 million miles pure EV taxi miles in less than 1 year with 30 Nissan Leafs.

 

This was way back 8 years ago.

http://evfleetworld.co.uk/nissan-ev-taxi-fleet-clocks-up-three-million-miles-in-uk

 

PS

I wonder how many have had EV,s catching fire without it being arson or organised crime wars. (referring to Glasgow there maybe with burned out Taxis..)

 

Edited 27 August, 20232 yr by toot

5 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham Butcherthose that have run fleets of EV,s for over a decade now with many millions of miles in UK weather will be the ones that might know if there is much to work about.

I know one such place and the issue are the non EV, VW Group TDI,s cars and Mini busses with 'Engine warning lights' being the real problem.

I was on a shuttle bus at the golf the other day as one driver stopped next to another one and asking do we just ignore this?

 

A friends Taxi firm's EV,s did 1 million miles pure EV taxi miles in less than 1 year with 30 Nissan Leafs.

 

This was way back 8 years ago.

http://evfleetworld.co.uk/nissan-ev-taxi-fleet-clocks-up-three-million-miles-in-uk

 

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

I am trying to say that there are many things to worry about with vehicles and components.

With VW Group other than DPF,s , DQ200 DSG,s, & SCR, it might well be those with Haldex being sure the service and maintenance gets done properly, 

and look out for the non water proof controllers.

 

The VW Group took in house the Software, that was a disaster. As is much of there procurement of components of many kinds.

As to them having their own battery factories, that is something to think about.

With electronics it is good that they trust much of that to be done in Hungary where there is cheap labour but well qualified.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 August, 20232 yr by toot

Charge points must continue charging at a minimum appropriate level matched to the power if charger whether that is 10p a minute or 50p or  £1 

 

That will move people on.

2 minutes ago, toot said:

I am trying to say that there are many things to worry about with vehicles and components.

With VW Group other than DPF,s , DQ200 DSG,s, & SCR might well be those with Haldex being sure the service and maintenance gets done properly, 

and look out for the non water proof controllers.

I fully appreciate that, what I was saying is that there are more of those in EV's and got knows there are simply loads in most modern cars anyway. In my Superb diesel there are no fewer than 19 ECUs with their own CPU's etc and when you look back to the days when there were none of these gadgets in cars and most knowledgable people could bodge something together to get going again, that is not normally the position these days so unless the car goes into "limp home" mode, you get to sit at the roadside for hours on end waiting for support to arrive. It happened to me twice in my previous car and the RAC took ages to reach me.

2 hours ago, toot said:

This one is for @lol-lol

This Taxi driver does this all the time.

2 7 kW posts available but late night to lazy or stupid or does not carry a cable so plugs into the 43 kW AC depriving anyone that comes into town of the only 2 available, 1 here and another 1/2 a mile away that also gets hogged.

Fully charged and still blocking the bay hours later.  At least the charger un-plugs if you can then get near to use it.

 

 

 

Please enlighten me here, I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding these 2 photos. The top one seems to me to say that the time is 07:40:41 and the green battery showing that the car is fully charged.

 

The bottom indicates the 08:25:46, 45 minutes after the first photo was taken and yet it shows the battery is charging and reached approx 33% of charge?

 

Or are the photos taken on 2 different days, or have I got that all wrong??

Edited 27 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

It shows charged.  0 kW means taking in no power. 

32.5 kWh is how much it got of a charge since they plugged in until it gave no more of a charge.

The battery is likely at 100%, but we can not see that when charging stopped, but if it had been still charging and say at 98% we could have seen that.

 

Well when i was first there it was done charging, then before i left i took another picture. 

You can check chargers even if you are not using that plug.  The difference other than the time is that the Charger was doing it,s thing and shows green because still just started running to check. 

Edited 27 August, 20232 yr by toot

Servicing a Tesla & doing an oil change.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 years ago. 

 

 

Well, I have to say that the display does not make it abundantly obvious to anyone without having read up somewhere how to understand the information being displayed. Traditionally, on say a mobile phone, green in the battery symbol would mean that the battery is full and orange or red would mean that the battery requires charging. Think you explaining it, it might come in handy if I get an EV.

Red or Orange shows before getting to GREEN when it has finished checking.

I caught a moment in time as it was running up the scale!

 

You do not need to know how to use one if you are not going to use one.

Different chargers do and show different things.

E-Volt ones or common type used at Charge Place Scotland hubs are shown on quite a few vids made by users.

 

Lots of people do not know how to just check the charger type in my picture for the users on the 3 different plug types.

I regularly show others how to check if another car plugged in might be near completing charged.

I regularly at a hub while someone charges go and check how they are doing and if sitting trying to get to 100% and getting almost no kWh might catch their attention and ask if any chance they can move to the AC charger.  

Or wise up and not be greedy as others want on the charger.  ie Me. or someone else then me.

 

The 43 kW AC on the side is also good if you want more than 7 kW, so 11, 22 or 43kW if you can use that.

But if at a place with 11 kW posts maybe bog off to them and do not plug into the 43 kW AC for hours.

 

The guy in the first vid has maybe learned a bit more since.

Do not trust ZapMap to show the correct tariff for any Council / Chargers as many are months out of date.

The Sticker is often all you have and some get taken off, or the charger waited months to have them applied.

The chargers seldom show on the screen the tariff, 

and the signs on the pavement can be wrong.

*Spot what a PITA getting to the charger can be because of posts on pavements, getting the charger to the car, having to step over cables to tap the screen. Not disability friendly.

Reason APPS might not work as the same as chargers and no remote start.

Mobile phone / SIM reception and that need not be in the wilds. eg. Edinburgh Park & Ride is sh!te as well.

SWRACO operating CPS is crap and also selling and maintaining chargers, but then BP Pulse are even worse. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 August, 20232 yr by toot

48 minutes ago, toot said:

Servicing a Tesla & doing an oil change.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 years ago. 

 

 

I have to say it, but there does seem to be much hype about the lack of servicing required, but that is not what I'm seeing here at all, the big difference is the lack of engine oil and oil filter changes, everything else is much the same. True brake wear is reduced but the amount of wear on any car reflects the manner of driving, and I don't rely on my brakes, I was taught to drive by bus drivers and so use the engine and being a diesel they have a higher compression ratio and provide pretty good braking, and coming to a halt with the minimum of effect to passengers as it is possible. Fuel filters only need checking/replacing at best 60,000 miles, something like 6 to 8 years driving for a lot of people.

 

All of these self-service videos also make use of something that so very few people have access to, a inspection pit or a hoist. the underbody trays on modern cars almost make one of those a must  or at least 2 people laying on their backs beneath the cars, not normally possible for many people, me included.

 

What was that $20 dollars for washer fluid?? I get concentrated fluid and mix it with water as required, this costs around £1 and lasts over 3 years and washer fluid needs topping very regularly not just at servicing time.  Brake fluid, absorbs moisture regardless of if the brakes see much use and so need to be replaced regularly, and is not that expensive to do.

 

The cost indicated of $720 for 5 years servicing is not that much different to an ICE car with variable servicing, which will vary according to how hard and the driver's style of driving and from personal experience and I have seen plenty of Tesla drivers and also Porsche Taycans etc., who drive like they own the road and simply must be at the head of the queue and are often the ones doing dodgy overtaking where others would hesitate, and then I normally get to pull gently to a smooth controlled stop behind them at the next road junction or traffic lights etc, and then they go off again like the hare only to and more than likely caught up with at the next hold-up.😏

This is the Elephant in the room. 

Fancy cars now, on lease / service plans and very little done @ 2 years or even 3, and lets see just how much Servicing or inspections do need doing.

 

This is why Kate & James and their company are up into Scotland doing Mobile Servicing & Maintenance,

because Main Dealer Servicing if you can get the car in for them to cast an eye over for lots of money is not getting Maintenance or simple easy jobs done in many cases.

 

** The CPS charger he was at in ASDA in Aberdeen has nothing to do with ASDA, it is Aberdeen City Councils, totally hopeless and they are charging me £1 twice for it failing to start and me getting no charge.

No way Jose are they getting that £2.    That charger has messed up other cars and shows currently as available and i can guarantee the CCS or AC will not work.**

 

 

 

Edited 27 August, 20232 yr by toot

@toot Totally agree with you, some of the EV drivers are so ignorant that they cannot see there may be others who really need to use the faster chargers as they be in a rush to continue their journeys, the same as these service stations that also have mini supermarkets in them and someone, fills and then goes and do their shopping rather than parking elsewhere and freeing up the pump for others 🤬

 

With red/orange thingy, I never realised that the display was animated and that your photo happened to catch it mid-movement 👍  

56 minutes ago, toot said:

This is the Elephant in the room. 

Fancy cars now, on lease / service plans and very little done @ 2 years or even 3, and lets see just how much Servicing or inspections do need doing.

 

This is why Kate & James and their company are up into Scotland doing Mobile Servicing & Maintenance,

because Main Dealer Servicing if you can get the car in for them to cast an eye over for lots of money is not getting Maintenance or simple easy jobs done in many cases.

 

 

 

Be great to get that amount of free charging all the time