Autocar posted this

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/labour-would-reinstate-2030-ban-new-ice-car-sales

6 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Me too. It makes perfect sense. It has capable for bigger battery and works well as proper EV. With ICE for people who need the assurance of range.

 

  

Wow, that's a great improvement. 24 miles EV only range, but using just 10% of that could improve ~10 MPG giving 20 miles additional range on a 42 litre tank. Is that right?

 

 

 

'Realistic' motorway speeds also very efficient in a good EV    (Newark supercharger to Welwyn garden city, including 5~10min off motorway each end)

Translates to 320 miles range at 'realistic' motorway speeds.

 

What I was trying to imply was that 24 miles EV power (and that is a max and only achievable in warmer weather and lower speeds, ie around town and in heavy traffic), was around 10% of my 240 miles journey. The petrol range on the car is significantly better than the 240 miles, obviously.

 

I think the big overall improvement to mpg comes not from straight forward EV mileage addition, but the EV assist to accelerating from a standstill, low speed creeping and a bit of regen in stop start. If the trip was 239 miles of motorway and 1/2 a mile of stop start at the beginning adn the end, then the overall mpg would be much less I assume. Although when you lift off (in regen mode) on the motorway, at say 70mph, the next time you press the throttle at say 60mph, the car accelerates in EV mode initially, even if there is no indicated charge in the battery. 

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

 

 

 

And so it begins, the long expected trade wars which will not do us any favours at all, with all the retaliation tariffs.

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

15 minutes ago, Lady Elanore said:

Autocar posted this

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/labour-would-reinstate-2030-ban-new-ice-car-sales

Well, that'll be a big help for us I must say, just make EV cars even more expensive I expect. 

2 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

that's as maybe  but what exactly are you saying was incorrect about my original post ?

 

To write, even when suffixing with a string of odd characters, is a totally inaccurate slur, .

 

The EU CV duty exercise, currently given several weeks warning of its Provisional Implementation is a entirely logical and auditable process that calculates CVV duty based on the amount of subsidies the particular Chinese brand is receiving from the Chinese state.  No EU bank handers. spreading malicious untruths has in good part got the UK in the economic pickle it is currently in.

I expect the UK to entirely follow the EU lead and this will mean cars like the Mini, and sadly the Dacia Spring, might cost a lot more. BMW and Mercedes and even Renault may regret the decision to have cars for the EU market made in China. Let us hope they follow Nissan and decide to assemble in the UK/EU and hit a 50 or 60% local content rule to gain origin states.   

 

" The actual tariffs being imposed appear to depend on how much of a "backhander" the manufacturer has bunged the EU ;o)  "

I had a look at how many MINI Electrics were first registered last year in the UK and there were quite a few thousand especially in the 2nd half of the year , Level 1, 2, 3 & Special Editions, Resolution & Shadow. 

I see in the last Quarter they Registered the New MINI Cooper SE that they had brought in for Media and for Showrooms as they are not yet on sale.

It will be interesting to see how many more of the current ones and the New MINI Cooper SE & the MINI E they have registered in the first 5 months of 2024.

 

These will be from China.

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, Lady Elanore said:

This is interesting-ish

 

I only have experience of travelling and driving one of these cars over a great distance and it makes me think that, whilst not exactly hyper-miling, they were driving frugally. My experience in a Taycan with the big battery is perhaps 220-240 mile in normal conditions and with all the necessary creature comforts turned on. Well it is a Porsche

 

I'd obviously go for the Porsche followed by the Polestar....if I  had to. 

The Porsche is a new one with bigger battery and more efficient motor, more performance. Better in every way:

 

One of the reasons for huge depreciation on older version. Things move quick in the tech world

 

  

1 hour ago, Lady Elanore said:

What I was trying to imply was that 24 miles EV power (and that is a max and only achievable in warmer weather and lower speeds, ie around town and in heavy traffic), was around 10% of my 240 miles journey. The petrol range on the car is significantly better than the 240 miles, obviously.

 

I think the big overall improvement to mpg comes not from straight forward EV mileage addition, but the EV assist to accelerating from a standstill, low speed creeping and a bit of regen in stop start. If the trip was 239 miles of motorway and 1/2 a mile of stop start at the beginning adn the end, then the overall mpg would be much less I assume. Although when you lift off (in regen mode) on the motorway, at say 70mph, the next time you press the throttle at say 60mph, the car accelerates in EV mode initially, even if there is no indicated charge in the battery. 

Thanks, that makes more sense. Hybrid doesn't create more energy out of thin air, just uses them more intelligently.

 

TBH, that 2030 thing is regarding pure ICE ban. Some level of hybrid is needed going forward. It's all a game of politics. Tory can say they are "supporting" ICE whilst backstabbing with ZEV mandate. Labour can say they are green whilst allowing mild-hybrid to be sold after 2030.

Sadly, one of the main reasons the Taycan is deprecating so much is due to Porsche not buying back used cars. The market is flooding with them, thanks to Porsche pushing new EVs over everything else in order to hit emissions targets and carry on selling their true love of ICE cars. Plus there is always things like a near £50K replacement charge if you damage your battery casing etc, which makes people nervous (expensive, even though the Porsche battery is designed to be relatively easily changed ).  The model I am familiar with has the big battery which means you get more power available  (the two speed gearbox at the back is interesting) and although it is fractionally down on power and ultimate capacity on the latest version, there isn't much in it. The Taycan power output figures are very complicated, although I think they are streamlining the battery /motor options these days since the update, so it is becoming a little clearer. 

 

During one of his many recalls, my friend has had a loner of the latest version and he didn't really notice much difference. He has, however, also had a Panamera for a couple of days and found he preferred his Taycan. I should add he is a petrol head and his heart is and always will be, with petrol cars. One interesting thing was, he used to live with a woman who also had an EV and charging, as they are both high mileage drivers, was a bit of a pain for them. It isn't something I considered until recently when I noticed that one of the households in my road now has 2 EVs. Hadn't really thought about the potential issues on that front until then. Luckily they both work relatively locally so they can cope. 

 

 

Reform UK GE Candidates even in Scotland says they want cheaper energy and that is a Mix of Renewables, wind, solar & hydro which are too expensive, Oil & Gas from around the British Isles to save importing and Small Modular Nuclear generation.

 

Well good luck with North Sea Oil & gas because the right to extract that has been sold, & there is only one power station, the one nuclear power station is closing and there is unlikely to be new nuclear in Scotland and as for the Wind, Solar, Hydro & Battery that is in place and in the further building and development stage.

 

I guess that Reform UK backers have Investments in Small Nuclear Reactors & need that going ahead just as a few Tory Senior Politicians have. 

 

@Lady Elanorethere is a video i posted yesterday in the EV Depreciation thread on Taycans. 

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

This is a little bit off-topic, but seeing as we are discussing imposing tariffs against Chinese EVs this video caught my eye, its only a short one but is this for real, does anyone know what is happening in China at all? If this is real, is China in dire straits?

 

 

4 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

This is interesting-ish

 

I only have experience of travelling and driving one of these cars over a great distance and it makes me think that, whilst not exactly hyper-miling, they were driving frugally. My experience in a Taycan with the big battery is perhaps 220-240 mile in normal conditions and with all the necessary creature comforts turned on. Well it is a Porsche

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd obviously go for the Porsche followed by the Polestar....if I  had to. 

Just watched this, originally I thought it was the same one I watched a couple of weeks ago, but it isn't its a new one.

 

Very interesting results and was surprised to see the Mercedes Benz was the most accurate in its claimed WLTP range. Also this video clearly demonstrated just how distracting and dangerous it is stuffing all the controls via the touch screen and the charging facilities at all apart from Ferrybridge Services were just crap, and does back up what other people have said in their video bloggs.

Just did Edinburgh to Milton Keynes and back. On the return leg I paid attention to the times we speant charging. We set off at mid day, the car wanted us to charge at Manchester but by the time we were nearing Stafford my son said he needed the loo. So we stopped at Starbucks and plugged in while we emptied our tanks. We then bought a couple of drinks and took them with us. Spent a total of 14 minutes charging by which time the car said we could get to Gretna. But by 5pm we were passing Tebay and given a choice between Burger King at Gretna or Tebay we stopped and paid a premium for their chargers (64p versus Ionity's 43p). Going to the loo, ordering and eating food and then going back to the car  took 24 minutes. By which time the car was at 92% which was more than enough to get home to just outside Edinburgh. And this is the shorter range Enyaq. I can't actually see that there is a pressing need for longer range cars.

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by domhnall

also made this quick video review of the car 

 

 

13 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

To write, even when suffixing with a string of odd characters, is a totally inaccurate slur, .

 

 

**SIGH**

17 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

touch screen and the charging facilities at all apart from Ferrybridge Services were just crap, and does back up what other people have said in their video bloggs.

 

videos like that really **ss me off. You can tell from your car before visiting those sites how many chargers there are, whether they are in use / broken/ available etc so why would you go there and then say "oh this is rubbish"? I mean it's like if I read that a petrol station was out of action (Like my local Shell garage was recently) and then went there and said "the petrol/ diesel infrastructure is rubbish". 

Done to get clicks and engagement nothign more. 

 

Edinburgh Airport Park and ride,  the 6 BP Pulse 50 kW chargers out of service now for near 8 months, since there was flooding in October.

The 4 x 11/22 AC sockets are hit or miss if working and the 40 7 kW unreliable so people can not trust to Park & Charge and come back and them having charged the car.

 

Capital Cities Airport, Tram and Bus Park & Ride facility and an embarrassment for Scotland. 

 

I check if they are back working each time that i am very near just incase they are back on as people are less and less reporting in on ZapMap or PlugShare about if working or not.

 

In the good old days there might be at least 3 working. Nothing now, not even the 1 original that kept dispensing free. 

Edited 14 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

50 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

videos like that really **ss me off. You can tell from your car before visiting those sites how many chargers there are, whether they are in use / broken/ available etc so why would you go there and then say "oh this is rubbish"? I mean it's like if I read that a petrol station was out of action (Like my local Shell garage was recently) and then went there and said "the petrol/ diesel infrastructure is rubbish". 

Done to get clicks and engagement nothign more. 

 

errrrm I think you missed the point  that they were doing a "how far can we go " type of test and  were merely commenting on the state of the facilities available at the time of their stop, they didn't actually intend on using them.

Yes of course there are apps that can tell you in advance but again that's you having to adapt to the car. How many times when driving a traditional ICE car did you ever need to check in advance if the petrol stations on route were working ?

Oh and the most ridiculous one was the services where (I believe it was when they visited previously) the chargers were out of action with a sign saying the power supply to the site wasn't sufficient. What a load of c*ck. And this is with a relatively low number of EVs in use, imagine what it will be like if/when they are pretty much the only vehicles available)

Edited 14 June, 20241 yr by Winston_Woof

There are Apps that might tell you in advance and be accurate.

Some very much better than others, but that still can not be relied on if you want to risk it for a biscuit and run to near no range.

 

Once you have been at facilities and have gained some knowledge you might be more confident on what you are about to encounter at that location.

 

There are vehicles and phones that work better than others for info, and there are still crap Phone Reception areas, and that is also an issue with Chargers & SIM cards and Communications.   Even phone reception to a 'Support call centre'.

Unbelievable but Mobile Phone Reception at Edinburgh Airport park and ride can be pathetic as was CPS / SWARCO in Broughty Ferry's communication with the chargers. 

 

 

 

Edited 14 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, domhnall said:

 

videos like that really **ss me off. You can tell from your car before visiting those sites how many chargers there are, whether they are in use / broken/ available etc so why would you go there and then say "oh this is rubbish"? I mean it's like if I read that a petrol station was out of action (Like my local Shell garage was recently) and then went there and said "the petrol/ diesel infrastructure is rubbish". 

Done to get clicks and engagement nothign more. 

 

I doubt that it was done for clicks and engagement, not with having 9.3Million subscribers anyway, CarWow is a well established and respected channel.

 

Don't forget that none of those cars were actually looking for a charge, they were on a range test so they were being driven until they ran out of power, and the services were just being used to allow Matt Watson to change cars and do a quick review of each car after he had driven it. While they were there at the services, Matt just checked on the state and number of chargers at them as an extra. They were driving up the M1 and onto the A1M and A1 to Scotland which are pretty important and busy roads and you would normally expect there to be chargers at the those service locations, would you not?

Edited 14 June, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

It is strange that CB Radios or mics and 2 way radios for communications can still be hand held & legal in the UK.

 

There letting cars run out antics is very very dodgy at times & places.   Not only CarWow,  Rory as well with Autotrader.  

Yes, in fact all the car shows, like Top Gear, Fifth Gear, The Grand Tour etc all use handheld 2 way radios...

@Graham Butcher I was a HAM operator & Motorsport Radio Communications Marshal, & have used CB,s since 1978.

It does amaze me the legislation on hand helds as they use has never banned the use while driving.  But then Emergency Drivers / Police one handed driving while touching a button near their chest / lapels is an odd thing to still be acceptable. 

Edited 14 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

@Ootohere I suppose the get out clause could be that the radios being used have to be a single channel, so there is no need to interact with the radio to the same degree as there is with a phone?

Na,  you pick up a phone, maybe press one button and speak and listen to one person unless a conference call.

 

You pick up a walkie talkie, single channel or not and speak pressing a button.  Holding it.   Like other devices now banned, cameras taking a picture.

 

On the track i can see why a crap set of radios with iffy sound, but seriously there is hands free communications for these professional film makers driving on roads. 

Na, not on smartphone, you normally have swipe the touch sensor on the screen in a certain direction to answer it and even worse to make a call. On the old button phones you could set up 1 button calling for your 10 most common calls.

 

On the 2 way radios they use on these channels, you just have a long large button/lever on the side that you squeeze when you talk and release to listen, thats it.