45 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 

Most people don't drive mega miles daily, so EV would not inconvenience most people's daily lives. It would actually be an improvement not having to think about refuelling during daily use. 

 

 

EH?  Most people don't - they just fill up as needed - unlike EVs where people need to remember and think about plugging on a more regular basis (as you said yourself you plug in at home each night - which requires that thinking and remembering - and therefore is contradictory to your second sentence above?).

10,000 miles a year drivers so 200 miles a week drivers public charging and with no home charging might do the odd short charge or a once a week sticking the car for an hour or 2 on a charger.

Plenty EV drivers might be more like 5,000 miles a year of local driving and the occasional long run.

They might not even need 1 hour a week on a public 50 kW charger. 

 

But that 100 miles of a Rapid charge at a PodPoint is going to be £15.50 & maybe even more.

Not much cheaper if they are charging longer on a 7 or 11 kW charger or on a 22 kW AC maybe just the same.

5 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

EH?  Most people don't - they just fill up as needed - unlike EVs where people need to remember and think about plugging on a more regular basis (as you said yourself you plug in at home each night - which requires that thinking and remembering - and therefore is contradictory to your second sentence above?).

Exactly, it is no hassle to just pull into almost any garage forecourt, you don't need to have any special app or mapping program to plan your route and unless your using motorway services, you can pretty much rely on the price within a penny or two a litre regardless of what brand of fuel is on offer, and in just a few minutes be back on the road again and in almost every garage you can if you wish, pay using good old-fashioned cash.

55 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

I just do not believe that it is only 40% of UK drivers that do not have access to a driveway or offroad parking.

 

I know they say drivers and it is not about properties, but there are a lot of drivers living in hi-rise building,s, flats, blocks of 4 etc etc.

 

That number will actually be increasing at the moment too - as parking provision for residential properties is being reduced through Local Authorities' Supplementary Planning Guidance and many city centre residential developments / blocks of flats currently being built have little or no parking provision.

@Graham Butcher

'Just do not get an BEV' if it does not suit your driving needs or life style or where you live / park.

 

If Employers impose one on you and you can not say no then they require to make provision for charging. 

Not on your time, on theirs. 

 

@skomaz  As you will have gathered i never bother about what England does as that is not the UK.

There is an election on and the Labour Party are going to fill 1 Million Potholes in England. Which is nice if the Unions are not having the workers out on strike. 

Edited 12 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

15 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Noted but that was unclear in your comment which implied inclusion of un-warranted repairs.

 

Presumably, for balance, you have therefore also included things like increased insurance costs for EVs and increased costs of 'disposables' such a tyres and the like?

 

Either way for many the 'general running costs' are less of an issue than the up-front purchase costs, which currently remain higher for EV's vs comparable ICE.

mmm given most people purchase on some form of finance or PCP etc then its the residuals on sales which are more of a factor than up front costs as not many buyers pay in full up front  ;o)

3 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

mmm given most people purchase on some form of finance or PCP etc then its the residuals on sales which are more of a factor than up front costs as not many buyers pay in full up front  ;o)

 

Fair point!   Aren't EVs on PCP still more expensive that ICE on PCP though?  (I wouldn't know as I've never done a PCP).

1 minute ago, skomaz said:

 

Fair point!   Aren't EVs on PCP still more expensive that ICE on PCP though?  (I wouldn't know as I've never done a PCP).

that's where the residuals come into play

@Winston_WoofMost cars are rented.  As in a majority so over 50%. 

On the never never and not owned by the drivers.  Company Cars.

 

As to Private cars, personal lease, purchase, borrowed or your own money.  

 

There are people buying BEV,s to keep, and ones that did a few years ago and are keeping.

They will work out if kept long enough as the usual 2-3 grand a year that they cost them and they still own them and spent less on servicing and maintenance and fuel.

 

Those days are coming to an end now with the latest on BEV,s or ones bought in the last couple of years. 

4 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Aren't EVs on PCP still more expensive that ICE on PCP though?

Current Vauxhall radio advert stresses that the monthly repayments on PCP are the same for ICEand BEV versions, BUT quietly says that the repayment period is 4 years for ICE and 5 years for BEV version - so 25% more in reality!

Edited 12 June, 20241 yr by PetrolDave

21 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

mmm given most people purchase on some form of finance or PCP etc then its the residuals on sales which are more of a factor than up front costs as not many buyers pay in full up front  ;o)

Yes that is true to an extent, but as BEV's currently are holding their value, the residuals are in fact low and that is then reflected in the upfront cost, thus making that even higher. For instance, when I last ordered a new car, its was my choice to go with a Škoda Superb, whereas many of my colleagues elected for a posher brand of Audi A4, a smaller car in terms of passenger space as well as boot and only had a very limited number of "toys" as standard. The amount of car budget set by the company was the same, but all they could get with that was a model pretty close to the base model. Whereas not only was my car bigger in every sense of the word, it was more expensive list price by a fair margin, and it also came with loads more "toys" including a TV tuner and DVD player with uprated surround sound system and full leather etc, but it was also less upfront and lower monthly costs.

 

I asked the lease company why this was, and they said it was, although the Audi was perceived to be the "better" car from a badge point of view, despite beneath the body the running gear and engines were the same, they didn't have as high residual value after 3 years as most people opted for them making them more common, whereas my model and the L&K version was rarer and therefore overall more desirable as a second-hand car.

Edited 12 June, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

27 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Presumably, for balance, you have therefore also included things like increased insurance costs for EVs and increased costs of 'disposables' such a tyres and the like?

 

Either way for many the 'general running costs' are less of an issue than the up-front purchase costs, which currently remain higher for EV's vs comparable ICE.

Insurance varies hugely for different people. I only carried on from where other people left off: fuel cost. It is very true it's part of total cost and should be included. 

Tyre will wear similar compared to similar performance vehicles, more cost difference for different sizes. 

 

This is the thing. Up-front cost is part of total ownership cost. People need to start thinking with total ownership cost. 

 

30 minutes ago, skomaz said:

EH?  Most people don't - they just fill up as needed - unlike EVs where people need to remember and think about plugging on a more regular basis (as you said yourself you plug in at home each night - which requires that thinking and remembering - and therefore is contradictory to your second sentence above?).

That is the point. Plug in every night means zero thinking required, automatic action, daily routine. 

Whereas needing to do something not on a daily routine precisely need thinking and remembering. 

 

Do you need to think about plugging your phone every night or there is a cable at bedside table and you do it everyday without thinking? 

  

25 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Exactly, it is no hassle to just pull into almost any garage forecourt, you don't need to have any special app or mapping program to plan your route and unless your using motorway services, you can pretty much rely on the price within a penny or two a litre regardless of what brand of fuel is on offer, and in just a few minutes be back on the road again and in almost every garage you can if you wish, pay using good old-fashioned cash.

Imagine that fuel cost is built into your home energy bill   find cheapest tariff = always get cheapest charging. 

14 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Current Vauxhall radio advert stresses that the monthly repayments on PCP are the same for ICEand BEV versions, BUT quietly says that the repayment period is 4 years for ICE and 5 years for BEV version - so 25% more in reality!

That is not how this calculation works. Does the guy buying ICE version not own a car during that 1 year difference? 

2 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 Imagine that fuel cost is built into your home energy bill   find cheapest tariff = always get cheapest charging. 

Once again, assuming that people can have access to a home charger and a driveway, which is simply not possible for so many people in the country. You yourself said that when you moved, it was prerequisite that you needed to have a house with a driveway for an EV at some point in the future.

21 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Current Vauxhall radio advert stresses that the monthly repayments on PCP are the same for ICEand BEV versions, BUT quietly says that the repayment period is 4 years for ICE and 5 years for BEV version - so 25% more in reality!

 

5 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

That is not how this calculation works. Does the guy buying ICE version not own a car during that 1 year difference? 

After 5 years both own a 5 year old car, but the BEV owner has paid 25% more to own the BEV than the ICE owner has paid to own the ICE.

4 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

That is not how this calculation works. Does the guy buying ICE version not own a car during that 1 year difference? 

That is exactly how it works, the advert makes a great play that people who claimed that they could not afford to buy an EV can now do so if they buy a Vauxhall as the monthly payments remain the same and as @PetrolDave says, it goes on to say that the ICE is paid over 4 years and the EV is 5 years, so it is 25% dearer. I presume that it is based on that at the end of the 4 or 5 year period, the car then becomes yours.

11 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Once again, assuming that people can have access to a home charger and a driveway, which is simply not possible for so many people in the country. You yourself said that when you moved, it was prerequisite that you needed to have a house with a driveway for an EV at some point in the future.

I've been saying this for many times, driveway owners default choice if situations allow, etc etc. 

 

A lot of the times, it pays to have foresight  

 

8 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

After 5 years both own a 5 year old car, but the BEV owner has paid 25% more to own the BEV than the ICE owner has paid to own the ICE.

Without full calculation of the offer in question, it's difficult to say BEV costs 25% more. We need to know the final balloon/down payment. 

 

At 4th year, ICE owner has option to hand the car back or pay down payment to own outright. But if down payment isn't made, the ICE owner does not own a car anymore. 

 

6 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is exactly how it works, the advert makes a great play that people who claimed that they could not afford to buy an EV can now do so if they buy a Vauxhall as the monthly payments remain the same and as @PetrolDave says, it goes on to say that the ICE is paid over 4 years and the EV is 5 years, so it is 25% dearer. I presume that it is based on that at the end of the 4 or 5 year period, the car then becomes yours.

At end of PCP, you'd need to pay the down payment. It does not belong to you. Without that information, it is impossible to compare true cost of the car. 

 

Edited 12 June, 20241 yr by wyx087

A Social divide, or a geographical one.

 

In Scotland there was 6 year interest free loans available to Buy a new car.  (BEV)

Then that was changed to Interest Free Loan to buy a Used BEV.

 

That might have been introduced with influence of the Used Motor Traders in Scotland that need to shift more Used Cars.

 

A total co-ck up as usual getting these loans, as is grants for chargers etc.  But it all looks good on-line or in press releases. 

Edited 12 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 minute ago, wyx087 said:

I've been saying this for many times, driveway owners default choice, etc etc. 

 

A lot of the times, it pays to have foresight  

 

But once again, your reply did not imply or convey that message, you keep assuming that people do have that capability, which simply is incorrect.

 

3 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

At end of PCP, you'd need to pay the down payment. It does not belong to you. Without that information, it is impossible to compare true cost of the car. 

Once again the clue is there in plain sight the advert states that Vauxhall are now making it easier for people to afford a EV by keeping the payments exactly the same as they would be for the ICE version, but the payments are 12 moths longer therefore the total cost is higher, while it may not be exactly 25% more, it won't be far from it.🙄

They are way overpriced BEV cars anyway from Vauxhall and what it has is people paying a silly price for financing these vehicles. 

 

They are basically piling them high and getting the cash flowing. 

They are getting desperate to shift enough Zero Emission vehicles and are going to make better offers to punt them. 

Just as all the other Manufacturing Groups will need to. 

 

The final quarter of 2024 is going to be interesting for just how the Dealerships have to behave to get First Registrations, then the 1st quarter of 2025 shifting Pre Reg BEV,s and more new BEV,s.

Edited 12 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

52 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher

'Just do not get an BEV' if it does not suit your driving needs or life style or where you live / park.

 

If Employers impose one on you and you can not say no then they require to make provision for charging. 

Not on your time, on theirs. 

Eh?? I'm retired and have been for 8 years now, I was talking about the last company car I had, which at that time we all had ICE. Just as I retired, the company removed the car policy instead making it the employees job to source their own cars but within strict guidelines, making it become a millstone around the workers necks and many others also left around that time because they could see all kinds of problems on the horizon.

3 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

They are way overpriced BEV cars anyway from Vauxhall and what it has is people paying a silly price for financing these vehicles. 

 

They are basically piling them high and getting the cash flowing. 

They are getting desperate to shift enough Zero Emission vehicles and are going to make better offers to punt them. 

Just as all the other Manufacturing Groups will need to. 

 

The final quarter of 2024 is going to be interesting for just how the Dealerships have to behave to get First Registrations, then the 1st quarter of 2025 shifting Pre Reg BEV,s and more new BEV,s.

My Local airfield already has vast stocks of pre-registered Skodas stored there in order to get around the quota problems as they will simply shift them as second-hand cars. I'm expecting to see more arriving soon ready for next years quota.

9 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Once again the clue is there in plain sight the advert states that Vauxhall are now making it easier for people to afford a EV by keeping the payments exactly the same as they would be for the ICE version, but the payments are 12 moths longer therefore the total cost is higher, while it may not be exactly 25% more, it won't be far from it.🙄

So same question once again, does the ICE owner not own a car after 4 years? 

Monthly payment to that particular car stopped, but to say there is a 25% difference implies zero cost for the 5th year. 

 

Stop arguing without knowing all information. I'm not saying it is false that BEV may be more expensive. I am only saying 25% more expensive is false. We currently don't have all the information to form a conclusion. 

@Graham Butcher  I know you are retired and unlikely to be driving after 2035. 

Maybe best not get an ulcer bothering about stuff that will never affect you. 

 

If we put our fingers in our ears and shut our eyes it will not happen. 

 

PS

There are issues of some kind as far as people waiting on Skoda ICE cars that Dealers are not telling the customer what it is.

Today a member says they have been told 'DSG software'. 

 

There are always reasons for vehicles being bunkered, and Skoda do not Sell / First Register many cars in the UK even in the best of years and it will be VW Group UK or in the EU that controls the numbers & the fleet emissions etc. 

Edited 12 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

3 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

So same question once again, does the ICE owner not own a car after 4 years? 

Monthly payment to that particular car stopped, but to say there is a 25% difference implies zero cost for the 5th year. 

 

Stop arguing without knowing all information. I'm not saying it is false that BEV may be more expensive. I am only saying 25% more expensive is false. We currently don't have all the information to form a conclusion. 

If you actually read my earlier post you will see that I actually said what the presumptions were as I did not know just how much the final payment would be, but for the sake of argument I assumed that after 4 years for the ICE, it then became yours, and at the of 5 years the EV became yours. Given that in both cases the month payments were IDENTICAL, therefore the EV did cost more to purchase with or without the final down payment, the EV was going to cost around 25% more than the ICE car.

 

You love to twist things don't you to suit your point of view right down to drives and home charging etc at every opportunity.