I just think its a shame REX HEVs  such as the Vauxhall Ampera (which I did seriously consider buying earlier this year) didn't really go anywhere

People that have them are keeping them and the 2 that i used to see where going somewhere after they went to the chargers to charge for free.

The drivers had bought them from family members and were not selling no matter how often people asked. 

27 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

I just think its a shame REX HEVs  such as the Vauxhall Ampera (which I did seriously consider buying earlier this year) didn't really go anywhere

Me too. It makes perfect sense. It has capable for bigger battery and works well as proper EV. With ICE for people who need the assurance of range.

 

  

9 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

Driving at 'realistic' motorway speeds (I don't hang around), my PHEV does around 38mpg on pure petrol and maybe 45-50mpg with Hybrid Sat Nav mode engaged (it's not an actual mode, but you get my drift). If you consider that the real world range on battery alone in stop start traffic could be as high as 24 miles per full charge, you would think that it would give, roughly, a 10% help to a 240 mile trip. But the reality is, you get more like a 30+% lift. These are rough figures as it depends on the route used and average speed undertaken. The 3008 I have only has a 42 litre tank, so it's worth doing before I set off on a long trip. 

Wow, that's a great improvement. 24 miles EV only range, but using just 10% of that could improve ~10 MPG giving 20 miles additional range on a 42 litre tank. Is that right?

 

 

 

'Realistic' motorway speeds also very efficient in a good EV    (Newark supercharger to Welwyn garden city, including 5~10min off motorway each end)

Translates to 320 miles range at 'realistic' motorway speeds.

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

 

If VW Group had carried on as they planned to with developing Diesel Hybrids but for smaller cars that would have been sensible.

 

An Audi A2 1.2 TDI Hybrid. for Euro 7 emissions. 

 A modernisation of the A2 that really was ahead of it's time but just too expensive for them producing. 

 

 

I've often wondered the same and thought a hybrid with a small diesel range extender would be a good combination.

 

It's a shame Mazda don't offer one alongside the rotary REX in the MX30

34 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Me too. It makes perfect sense. It has capable for bigger battery and works well as proper EV. With ICE for people who need the assurance of range.

 

 

 

Again I guess it (almost?) highlights the difference between technology being driven by market forces and technology being driven by Government Intervention as these REX setups don't exactly meet the mandated targets set of Zero Emissions at the tailpipe so why spend money on developing them further?

Well, in this report, it talks about ultra-low emission ICE vehicles (eg. Toyota hybrid) able to claim credit against ZEV mandate. So it does provide flexibility and encourages low emission hybrid development. Hydrogen FCEV also counts as ZEV. In another words, UK gov's ZEV mandate is technology agnostic and open to changes in market forces.

 

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e753d15b0eb84693c7e3e21/t/665ee6aa9f2d5738d0dfa6f2/1717495471949/Electric_Car_Count_-_New_AutoMotive+(12).pdf

 

 

 

Otherwise, there's no way Toyota group can be ahead of 22% ZEV mandate.

Is that actually 8 brands for VW.  14 for Stellantis,  2 for BMW & 2 for Geely, & Hyundai including KIA, Renault / Dacia ?

SAIC - MG.

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

That table is laughable, how in god's green earth can companies such as Tesla, BYD and Great Wall can only have an implied target of 22% ZEV when that is all they make. They are at  the time of that table being produced, 10,077 cars short of being on target for all makes..

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

15 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Is that actually 8 brands for VW.  14 for Stellantis,  2 for BMW & 2 for Geely, & Hyundai including KIA, Renault / Dacia ?

SAIC - MG.

I think so. I'm not seeing sub brands like Skoda, Audi, Porsche, Mini, Volvo, Polestar, Kia, Dacia, etc. 

 

I'm surprised Nissan and Renault are not doing so good, despite their very affordable offerings still on sale. 

 

Also, looking at implied target, does it mean Tata and Ford have more low emission vehicle sales than Toyota?? 

 

7 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

That table is laughable, how in god's green earth can companies such as Tesla, BYD and Great Wall can only have an implied target of 22% ZEV when that is all they make.

Implied target is up to 22%. 

As the snippet says, manufacturers can gain credit by selling ICE cars that exceed emission target. Tesla did not sell any ICE cars that exceeded emission target. Toyota did, hence their implied ZEV target has been reduced due to the credit system. 

 

IMO such credits shouldn't exist, but people wanted flexibility and less government control and government provided exactly that. 

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by wyx087

VW are partnered with SAIC to use credits from them. 

TESLA a gun for hire.

 

GWM,s are building Electric MINIS for BMW /MINI. 

 

Renault / DACIA have the New Small EV to get loads of First Registered this year.

BMW- MINI will get loads of Electrics registered.

 

Just looked at the Electric Cars Motability have listed now, 235 BEV,s to choose from and many £0-under £1,000 advance payment. 

Last quarter there will no doubt be many £0 advance payment.

 

Abarth doing them cheap petrols, but also Abarth electric cars. 

Even the Electric People Carriers are now £1,000 or less Advance Payment.

 

EDIT / PS

Enyaq, Born & ID.3 very low Advance payments which is a sign there are enough available and VW Group need them bought and First Registered.

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

 

Something else happening on the 4th of July.   UK expected to follow EU in the law, just as it has with other customs rules since 1st Jan 2021.

EU to put tariffs of up to 38% on Chinese electric vehicles as trade war looms

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/12/eu-import-tariffs-chinese-evs-electric-vehicles-trade-war

Move, to be applied provisionally from July, would trigger duties of more than €2bn a year

• Explainer: How will new EU tariffs on Chinese EVs work?

The EU has notified Beijing that it intends to impose tariffs of up to 38% on imports of Chinese electric vehicles, triggering duties of more than €2bn (£1.7bn) a year and a likely trade war with China.   The tariffs will be applied provisionally from next month in line with World Trade Organization rules, which give China four weeks to challenge any evidence the EU provides to justify the levies on imported EVs.   The charges come on top of the existing 10% levy on cars imported into the EU, meaning Chinese-made electric cars face total tariffs of up to 48%.  

China immediately hit back, promising to “resolutely take all necessary measures to firmly defend the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese companies”.

 

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by lol-lol

The actual tariffs being imposed appear to depend on how much of a "backhander" the manufacturer has bunged the EU ;o)
 

Three brands in particular were hit with tariff bumps: BYD at 17.4 percent, Geely at 20 percent flat, and SAIC with a hefty 38.1 percent. A general tariff increase against other brands will be levied depending on whether they have cooperated with the EU's investigation: 21 percent for those that did, and 38.1 percent for those that didn't. These numbers are much lower than the 100 percent tariff that the US put into place, with the maximum being 48.1 percent for non-cooperative firms.

The numbers for BYD and Geely suggest that they were cooperative with the EU, while SAIC wasn't. 

 

https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/12/eu_chinese_ev_tariffs/

 

BYD is playing the game, much as VW / Audi do and Suzuki has for 2 decades.

 

Build cars in a car plant or 2 or more in Hungary and then there is energy security due to Viktor Orbans special relationship with Vladimir Putin. 

 

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

10 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

The actual tariffs being imposed appear to depend on how much of a "backhander" the manufacturer has bunged the EU ;o)
 

Three brands in particular were hit with tariff bumps: BYD at 17.4 percent, Geely at 20 percent flat, and SAIC with a hefty 38.1 percent. A general tariff increase against other brands will be levied depending on whether they have cooperated with the EU's investigation: 21 percent for those that did, and 38.1 percent for those that didn't. These numbers are much lower than the 100 percent tariff that the US put into place, with the maximum being 48.1 percent for non-cooperative firms.

The numbers for BYD and Geely suggest that they were cooperative with the EU, while SAIC wasn't. 

 

https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/12/eu_chinese_ev_tariffs/

 

 

Incorrect.

 

It is based on the Chinese Export credit and state help.

 

I heard on World Service Radio last night that BYD can still make 9,000 Euro profit per vehicle even with the tariff imposed.

31 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Incorrect.

 

It is based on the Chinese Export credit and state help.

 

what's incorrect ?

The tongue in cheek comment (as indicated by the emoticon)  about "backhanders" ?

That's the whole point of a tongue in cheek comment!!!

3 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

what's incorrect ?

The tongue in cheek comment (as indicated by the emoticon)  about "backhanders" ?

That's the whole point of a tongue in cheek comment!!!

Probably Chinese export credit VS cooperation with EU investigation.

 

Though not seeing any source with lol's info.

 

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by wyx087

Will the increase in tariffs effect Tesla's made in China?

 

Tesla, sells the China-made Model 3 locally for the equivalent of just under $32,000, while in Germany, the same vehicle starts at almost $43,800.

3 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

Will the increase in tariffs effect Tesla's made in China?

 

Tesla, sells the China-made Model 3 locally for the equivalent of just under $32,000, while in Germany, the same vehicle starts at almost $43,800.

from the Register article I linked to previously

Additionally, the EC mentions Tesla will also be subject to the tariffs since it produces some of its EVs in China. However, the announcement notes that the Musk-run car brand requested an individually applied tariff like BYD and Geely, presumably to get access to lower tariffs. Other brands are also allowed to request their own unique tariffs after the investigation has concluded.

20 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

Will the increase in tariffs effect Tesla's made in China?

 

Tesla, sells the China-made Model 3 locally for the equivalent of just under $32,000, while in Germany, the same vehicle starts at almost $43,800.

The question is how is the tariff levied.

 

All Europe Model Y are now produced in Germany. UK was the last market to switch over a few weeks ago (when I looked at Cybertruck, they say first shipment expected next week). But RWD BYD blade batteries are from China I think.

 

Shanghai still builds Model 3, I think Berlin plant only builds Model Y's. So I think Tesla will be hit with tariff on those cars.

30 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

what's incorrect ?

The tongue in cheek comment (as indicated by the emoticon)  about "backhanders" ?

That's the whole point of a tongue in cheek comment!!!

 

The EU is forewarning of Countervailing duty on Chinese cars as part of its duty to protect EU car workers jobs.

It is an audit procedure which if Chinese manufacturers are unwilling to open their books for the EU Auditors to ascertain if there is anti competitive behaviour going on.  

There will most likely be a phase where the Provisional CV Duty will apply and it will become Definitive, usually after 6 months if memory serves and could apply for several years.  

 

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_24_3232 

1 minute ago, wyx087 said:

The question is how is the tariff levied.

 

All Europe Model Y are now produced in Germany. UK was the last market to switch over a few weeks ago (when I looked at Cybertruck, they say first shipment expected next week). But RWD BYD blade batteries are from China I think.

 

Shanghai still builds Model 3, I think Berlin plant only builds Model Y's. So I think Tesla will be hit with tariff on those cars.

 

Annoying for those of use leaning to a model 3 who were hoping Berlin would start making RHD 3s as had reportedly begun with with the Y and therefore we hoped to see price falls in the 3's RRP.

 

14 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

The EU is forewarning of Countervailing duty on Chinese cars as part of its duty to protect EU car workers jobs.

It is an audit procedure which if Chinese manufacturers are unwilling to open their books for the EU Auditors to ascertain if there is anti competitive behaviour going on.  

There will most likely be a phase where the Provisional CV Duty will apply and it will become Definitive, usually after 6 months if memory serves and could apply for several years.  

 

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_24_3232 

that's as maybe  but what exactly are you saying was incorrect about my original post ?

 

 

 

Edited 13 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

This is interesting-ish

 

I only have experience of travelling and driving one of these cars over a great distance and it makes me think that, whilst not exactly hyper-miling, they were driving frugally. My experience in a Taycan with the big battery is perhaps 220-240 mile in normal conditions and with all the necessary creature comforts turned on. Well it is a Porsche

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd obviously go for the Porsche followed by the Polestar....if I  had to.