104 miles was what my car was showing @ 100% this morning.

Back after 37 miles of flooded back roads and i stuck to MID & Full regen and the speeds were low, showed 4.1 miles a kWh until the last 5 miles home and down hill 

& that went to 4.4 miles a kWh.

Arrived with 74% / 81 miles showing.   Charging now on 3 pin.   Yesterday it was at 86% / 90 miles from just in 30 mph limit (Average speed about 15 mph) & to 100% / 104 miles shows 5 kWh /£1.20.   EDIT.  74% to 100% / 111 miles took 10kW £2.22

 

I would probably have been more efficient today in Sport & low regen.  Or sometimes it makes no difference, 1 pedal driving was good for today.)

(Not looked yet at pictures of flooding but through the ford the water was not high so maybe not raining that heavy higher up.)

 

2 years ago.

 

 

 

 

Not so efficient.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 16 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

A good aero shape where as most EVs are city car shape, like the Zoe or very SUV shape and all tall cars.

 

Good efficiency can be obtained if one is patient and cruise at 60 mph or below but if one runs at 70/75 then a very difference story. Zoe can do 300 miles or even 400 miles on a charge at urban speeds.  Less good at motorway max speeds.

 

Surely aero efficiency is equally important to ICE as EVs?

 

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise that something shaped like a brick will suffer more than a fish shaped car especially at motorway speeds. 
 

It’s all a compromise

The difference in drag coefficient between a tesla model s and a kia ev9 is 0.072

 

https://www.evspecs.org/comparison-chart/drag-coefficient

 

22 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

The difference in drag coefficient between a tesla model s and a kia ev9 is 0.072

 

https://www.evspecs.org/comparison-chart/drag-coefficient

 

a Skoda Superb Mk4 hatchback is apparently 0.24 
https://www.skoda.co.uk/news/details/the-fourth-generation-of-the-skoda-superb-will-once-again-offer-a-hatchback


Mind you (and I may be wrong here) but especially with EV economy doesn't rolling resistance have a greater impact on range compared to ICE ?

50 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

Surely aero efficiency is equally important to ICE as EVs?

 

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise that something shaped like a brick will suffer more than a fish shaped car especially at motorway speeds. 
 

It’s all a compromise

 

Earlier EVs suffered from very block shape and thick battery packs. My Zoe's battery pack is so thick there is no seat height adjustment up and down only back and forward but this has been largely solved with thinner battery packs.  

 

Battery packs are nearly always under the floor though my company does have some of our packs in the roof but that is unusual.

 

Hence most EVs have been SUVs or tall city cars but that is now not the default as these blade pack batteries are enabling lower height cars. I gather the Scenic battery pack is not much over 100mm thick.

 

A Skoda Citigo 1.0 N/A can do 700 miles on a standard size fuel tank, 35 litres / so less than 7 gallons. 

Amazing cars whatever their shape. 

22 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

A Skoda Citigo 1.0 N/A can do 700 miles on a standard size fuel tank, 35 litres / so less than 7 gallons. 

Amazing cars whatever their shape. 

And pretty comfortable, given its short wheelbase, they ride bumps pretty well, I sometimes get one as a courtesy car while mine is being serviced.. Problem being that when I'm driving, I need the seat all the way back till it touches the back seat, so the car becomes a 3 seater at best  

Edited 16 June, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

@Graham Butcher Exactly the same as with every small car i have ever had, or driven were only children or double leg amputees can sit behind me.

The Toyota iQ was a roomy 2 or 3 seater, same with a Fabia, as was the Corsa and the MINI is better as a 2 seater but can take 3 in it.

 

Yes, those small cars are really only ideal for a couple with very young children if you are average height or less.

 

This new MG3 hybrid looks a reasonable car for those kind of people as well, look to be extremely dark inside especially in the back which I hate, I like a light airy car hence I have light coloured seats and headlining in my car, but the interesting thing with the MG is its price.

 

 

51 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes, those small cars are really only ideal for a couple with very young children if you are average height or less.

 

This new MG3 hybrid looks a reasonable car for those kind of people as well, look to be extremely dark inside especially in the back which I hate, I like a light airy car hence I have light coloured seats and headlining in my car, but the interesting thing with the MG is its price.

 

 

 

And if it is not hit with massive extra import duties it might do very well.

 

Cheaper and more powerful than the Clio etech which it is oft compared though not as composed or refined.

 

Predict it will sell very well.

4 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

The difference in drag coefficient between a tesla model s and a kia ev9 is 0.072

 

https://www.evspecs.org/comparison-chart/drag-coefficient

 

Which chart proves absolutely nothing, since the important figure is not cd (drag coefficient) but cdA (cd multiplied by frontal area in square meters).

23 minutes ago, Paws4Thot said:

Which chart proves absolutely nothing, since the important figure is not cd (drag coefficient) but cdA (cd multiplied by frontal area in square meters).

I thought that CD figure was the value of resistance the car has to cutting through air and therefore takes into account the entire car, including the entire frontal area, after all it is measured, is it not in a wind tunnel with the entire car and not just a section of the car?

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

And if it is not hit with massive extra import duties it might do very well.

 

Cheaper and more powerful than the Clio etech which it is oft compared though not as composed or refined.

 

Predict it will sell very well.

Well given MG are part of SAIC and given that based on this article  they look to be one of the manufacturer's who didn't bung the EU Kommisars a big enough backhander so look to be getting stung with 38.1% additional import duties................

Que sera sera again as far as the EU goes which the UK is not still part of, and Que Sera Sera as far as the UK goes and what any government will do after the 5th of July, 

or say they are going to try and do. 

19 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Que sera sera again as far as the EU goes which the UK is not still part of, and Que Sera Sera as far as the UK goes and what any government will do after the 5th of July, 

or say they are going to try and do. 

Which the UK is no longer formally or legally  a part of ;o)


Are there any examples yet of post brexit legislation which hasn't simply followed the EU example?

I had completely overlooked the fact that MG have a car which meets most of my (personal) requirements for an (pre used)  EV and is starting to fall into the sub £10k market, The biggest thing missing (for me personally)  is the maximum potential range (and yes I know , for most journies I do it would be fine especially if I used home charging but that's not the point)

The MG5 Estate

51 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Que sera sera again as far as the EU goes which the UK is not still part of, and Que Sera Sera as far as the UK goes and what any government will do after the 5th of July, 

or say they are going to try and do. 

 

The UK maintains quite close alignment with the EU and that is necessary for the Trade Cooperation Agreement (logical called the TCA) our MFN rates are quite close, from what I have seen oft half a percent and sometimes two percent in the EU and zero in the UK.  Car duty full MFN rate is 10% of both customs territories. UK kept some of the Anti Dumping Duties ie the few it put through Brussels and dropped the rest.  As full entries are required from UK to EU then EU can levy these extra duties no problem.  If the EU suspects origin as bing mis declared they can do much more checks of course.

 

UK cars presumably be bought RHD so easy to spot coming in and look odd it one tries to EU register.  Gibraltar was a quite a fraud point in the past both for cars ending up in UK and EU.

 

If UK does not align the EU will make trade even harder than it is now.  Labour have talked about a Norway or Swiss trade arrangement with EU.   Norway has said no extra tariffs on EVs ie bring em in as up to now. No industry to harm of course, just happy EV consumers having their EVs subsidised by the Chinese state !!  

 

Ok so lets have more of a think about my range requirements  and other criteria (and yes I am fortunate enough to be able to charge at home if I did ever make the switch).

I originally stated "400 miles"

The 2 longest one way journeys I do regularly are either
a) to my parents in Doddington (Shropshire) which is 110 mile one way via the M6|M56|A49
b) down to my GFs daughters in Nottingham which is around 98 miles one way via M6|A500|A50|M1|A52

Both of which are comfortably done without needing a stop.


Now taking the MG5 above as an example that that has a theoretical max range of 214 miles however as we all now most vehicle ICE/EV rarely attain their stated ranges.

That being the case I don't think it's unreasonable to set a range expectation of say 300 miles minimum (ok previously I said 400 but I am prepared to come down a little) to cover a round trip to either of those destinations given that neither destination has the ability to even allow use of a Granny charger to partially top up.

Yes there are EV charging stations on route but I have no other need to break the journey.

My parents live on in a Park Home and the parking is the red x




Meanwhile my GFs daughter there's a big patch of grassed area between her house and the road

Edited 17 June, 20241 yr by Winston_Woof

@Winston_Woof  Do not get a BEV then.   Is it not just as simple as that?

6 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@Winston_Woof  Do not get a BEV then.   Is it not just as simple as that?

Oh I'm not currently but then that was the sort of point of my original post.

Once there's an EV on the market that meets my requirements I may consider it but until then I'm simply a nerd interested in the technology

@Winston_WoofFantastic.  Hang fire then.

We will see how things go with infrastructure, and improvements in technology, and the price of electricity.  Rome was not built in a day.

 

No idea about any Post Brexit Legislation changes, but the party in Government in the UK @ the time of Brexit is still the one that was in place Pre & Post Brexit. 

So still the situation is Que Sera Sera.

Considering how many of the Vehicles built in the UK currently are for export someone will need to screw the nut.   As in consider the Car Industry in the UK which is not part of the EU.

 

Apparently the Labour Party think they can have a Energy Company for the UK that they will run at arms length and produce no energy but they will have control of market prices and much cheapness for customers.

We will see, those with Home Charging, Smart Meters, the right Scheme / Tariff are damn cheap already, while others pay plenty over that prices, even where the energy is plentiful. 

The new GB Energy to be based in Scotland.    Well we will see how that turns out. 

Edited 17 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, Winston_Woof said:

Ok so lets have more of a think about my range requirements  and other criteria (and yes I am fortunate enough to be able to charge at home if I did ever make the switch).

I originally stated "400 miles"

The 2 longest one way journeys I do regularly are either
a) to my parents in Doddington (Shropshire) which is 110 mile one way via the M6|M56|A49
b) down to my GFs daughters in Nottingham which is around 98 miles one way via M6|A500|A50|M1|A52

Both of which are comfortably done without needing a stop.


Now taking the MG5 above as an example that that has a theoretical max range of 214 miles however as we all now most vehicle ICE/EV rarely attain their stated ranges.

That being the case I don't think it's unreasonable to set a range expectation of say 300 miles minimum (ok previously I said 400 but I am prepared to come down a little) to cover a round trip to either of those destinations given that neither destination has the ability to even allow use of a Granny charger to partially top up.

Yes there are EV charging stations on route but I have no other need to break the journey.

My parents live on in a Park Home and the parking is the red x




Meanwhile my GFs daughter there's a big patch of grassed area between her house and the road

Both of these examples are prime examples of where your parents or your GFs daughter couldn't own their own BEV's and charge at home to make it a viable option. There has to be some way of levelling the field between those that have the ability to home charge and those can't, otherwise once again the gap widens even more between those that have and those who have not.

Bearing in mind that if Labour win the GE, that they have already declared that they will be banning the sale of new ICE cars in 2030 again, just 5.5 years away. Yes it is easy to say, just don't get a BEV and continue with old second-hand ICE cars, but that again causes problems because they not want to have an old car but equally are unable for a multitude of reasons are not in a position to move to be able property where home charging is possible, again discrimination.

12 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Both of these examples are prime examples of where your parents or your GFs daughter couldn't own their own BEV's and charge at home to make it a viable option. There has to be some way of levelling the field between those that have the ability to home charge and those can't, otherwise once again the gap widens even more between those that have and those who have not.

Bearing in mind that if Labour win the GE, that they have already declared that they will be banning the sale of new ICE cars in 2030 again, just 5.5 years away. Yes it is easy to say, just don't get a BEV and continue with old second-hand ICE cars, but that again causes problems because they not want to have an old car but equally are unable for a multitude of reasons are not in a position to move to be able property where home charging is possible, again discrimination.

exactly .

With a 300+ range (and all other considerations) then a BEV could be a viable option for me as I could go (and come back)  where I needed 99% of the time and charge only at home as I am in a fortunate position. The only time I would need on route charging is  holidays to Scotland or trips down to see other family further afield (Somerset through Cornwall) and even then we would typically be stopping somewhere on the way  anyways or and/or overnight
 

Edited 17 June, 20241 yr by Winston_Woof

Big projects had been focusing on rapid charging hubs, great for mid-journey top up whilst resting anyway. But it gives bad experience for daily use due to waiting around and pricing is poor.

 

We need millions more destination charging, make plugging in easy and normal. It would enable seamless travel for huge majority without needing huge battery and/or charging stop on the return leg.

 

 

150 real world miles first-gen MG 5 with destination charging equals 300 real world miles.

60 miles Nissan Leaf 24 with destination charging equals 120 miles.

250 real world miles MY LR with destination charging equals don't need to use rapid chargers vast majority of the time.

 

Instead of 8 rapid chargers, same money could fund more than 40 destination chargers. Not only improves EV user experience, also reduces pressure on very expensive rapid charging hubs. It also allows more emission reduction by keeping PHEV charged. It's win-win-win.

13 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Big projects had been focusing on rapid charging hubs, great for mid-journey top up whilst resting anyway. But it gives bad experience for daily use due to waiting around and pricing is poor.

 

We need millions more destination charging, make plugging in easy and normal. It would enable seamless travel for huge majority without needing huge battery and/or charging stop on the return leg.

 

 

150 real world miles first-gen MG 5 with destination charging equals 300 real world miles.

60 miles Nissan Leaf 24 with destination charging equals 120 miles.

250 real world miles MY LR with destination charging equals don't need to use rapid chargers vast majority of the time.

 

Instead of 8 rapid chargers, same money could fund more than 40 destination chargers. Not only improves EV user experience, also reduces pressure on very expensive rapid charging hubs. It also allows more emission reduction by keeping PHEV charged. It's win-win-win.

What's needed is a system whereby large numbers of evs (whether that be BEVs, HEVs, Hydrogen fuel celled etc) can be topped up to their maximum range in a few minutes per vehicle thus replicating the ICE experience that has been in place for over 100 years