34 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

My latest fill up 2.0l Diesel

 

294.3 miles

27.22litres

£40.48

My last fill up was 530 miles 60.9 litres @ £90.72 while not as efficient as yours @10.81 miles per litre, was not bad seeing as it does more short journeys ferrying family members around the city to and from their places of work, shopping trips and trips to visit MIL 3 times a week so my other half can be her carer some mornings, and these trips always made during the rush hours.

54 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

My latest fill up 2.0l Diesel

 

294.3 miles

27.22litres

£40.48

13.75 p/mile

 

13 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

My last fill up was 530 miles 60.9 litres @ £90.72

17.11 p/mile

 

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

50 kWh @ 62 pence is £31.     4 miles a kWh x 50 = 200 miles.

15.5 p/mile in an EV at charged at 62 p/kWh.

 

To get cheaper EV public charging at 30-40 p/kWh, simply sub to a Tesla charging membershipif not driving a Tesla: https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/supercharging-other-evs#supercharging-membership 

 

Fully loaded Model Y LR (less efficient than RWD) over 1560 miles, vast majority public charged, average 9.6 p/mile.

 

 

£27,870

18,742 litres

202,600miles

Based on the costs of the cars and then factoring in the cost of doing 202,600 miles at todays prices brings the total cost of ownership (excluding VED, running repairs, insurance etc) to:-

 

Tesla £77,929

Octavia £58,480

 

So diesel Octavia actually costs £19,449 less and has a very good chance of the engine still being very good and running sweet as a nut at the end of the period, the battery on the Tesla?

Edited 10 June, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Just found this video of a Tesla that has done 430,000 and is still on its original battery!

 

I had to play this twice to make sure, but he claims to be getting free Tesla Supercharging as long as he has the cars for and that makes a huge impact on the overall cost of buying and running of the cars, I bet Tesla are no longer running that particular scheme.

 

The fact that there does not seem to be any Tesla owners coming forward to dismiss the claims that the batteries do die to a large extent after a few years, despite all the claims that the batteries do degrade, makes this claim seem too good to be true or just a lucky coincidence, we shall find out a bit more over the coming weeks.

 

 

Edited 10 June, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Lots of Tesla on UK roads that were bought by people who got Free EV charging and still do.

I know someone with 2.  But he is not near a Tesla Supercharger much other than when one or other of the Tesla X are in to get repairs.

 

Loads of Videos of High Mileage Tesla about & peoples stories about their experiences from new or used.

 

 

 

@wyx087 The thing with Tesla or Tesla non Tesla or Tesla subscription is that requires that you are going to be near Tesla Superchargers, so in Scotland or RofUK even though there are lots of Superchargers and more coming there are plenty that are not near the Cities or large towns where they are so the Charging Prices available are not relevant to them.   If you travel about your own area and are public charging in that area using Council Chargers or Public Non Tesla chargers then that is the tariffs that mater for those that can not charge at home, or work.

 

The Social Divide of private BEV drivers is the cost of running them. 

9 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Just found this video of a Tesla that has done 430,000 and is still on its original battery!

 

I had to play this twice to make sure, but he claims to be getting free Tesla Supercharging as long as he has the cars for and that makes a huge impact on the overall cost of buying and running of the cars, I bet Tesla are no longer running that particular scheme.

 

The fact that there does not seem to be any Tesla owners coming forward to dismiss the claims that the batteries do die to a large extent after a few years, despite all the claims that the batteries do degrade, makes this claim seem too good to be true or just a lucky coincidence, we shall find out a bit more over the coming weeks.

 

 

 

I have a friend with a Model S that gets free charging.  I can't remember the cut off date but others bought shortly afterwards don't.

 

Also he had a new battery in it free of charge just before his warranty ran out.

10 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

The fact that there does not seem to be any Tesla owners coming forward to dismiss the claims that the batteries do die to a large extent after a few years,

Thank you for posting that video. This is prime example to "dismiss claims that the batteries do die".

 

This data analysis of over 500 Model S shows all sign point to 85% health after 200k miles and/or 10 years,

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration

 

This is my Model Y LR at almost 2 years old (the car was manufactured in July, looking at VIN) according to TeslaMate data recorder:

 

 

11 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

£27,870

18,742 litres

202,600miles

10 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Based on the costs of the cars and then factoring in the cost of doing 202,600 miles at todays prices brings the total cost of ownership (excluding VED, running repairs, insurance etc) to:-

 

Tesla £77,929

Octavia £58,480

First, let's compare like for like, the amount of space in Model Y is vastly more than Octavia, I've had both side by side at one point.

Second, Model Y starts at £45k and LR is £53k.

Third, massive performance differences, but let's assume we are driving normally, any performance difference are useless.

 

More like-for-like comparison? https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/tesla-model-y-2021-suv-vs-skoda-kodiaq-2016-suv/front/

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/modely/design#overview

 

So there's about £10k new car price difference, including Skoda dealership discounts, zero discount from Tesla.

But there's servicing cost savings, where Tesla is a few pounds for cabin filter (https://shop.tesla.com/en_gb/product/model-3_y-air-filter). Whereas the diesel costs.....£200 every 2 years for oil change, £500 every 5 years for timing belt, £200 every 4 years for DSG oil change.  (those were fixed prices I remember from before 2021 during my 2.0 TDI Octavia ownership)

https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-maintenance

 

Over 200k miles, 15 years, excluding tyres, repairs and insurance:

Model Y -  car 45000   +   energy cost (203000   ×   0.03)   +   cabin filter (50   ×   7) = £51,440

Model Y LR -car 53000 +   energy cost (203000   ×   0.03)   +   cabin filter (50   ×   7) = £59,440

Karoq diesel - car 36000   +  fuel cost from your post 27870   +   mandatory servicing (200   ×   7   +   500   ×   3   +   200   ×   3) = £67,370

Even your Octavia diesel example would cost over £60k to drive that 200k miles.

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

@wyx087 The thing with Tesla or Tesla non Tesla or Tesla subscription is that requires that you are going to be near Tesla Superchargers, so in Scotland or RofUK even though there are lots of Superchargers and more coming there are plenty that are not near the Cities or large towns where they are so the Charging Prices available are not relevant to them.   If you travel about your own area and are public charging in that area using Council Chargers or Public Non Tesla chargers then that is the tariffs that mater for those that can not charge at home, or work.

 

The Social Divide of private BEV drivers is the cost of running them. 

That is very true. Scotland and Wales seems to have less ideal coverage. In Scotland one would be relying on CPS, which are quite poor.

 

I have found there's more than enough superchargers when doing road trips, about one every 20-40 minutes in England along trunk roads.

 

But for daily use, it's not as ubiquitous as petrol station so if don't have driveway it cannot easily replace petrol station. It all comes back to that "driveway new social divide" thread.

 

I personally certainly wouldn't entertain idea of moving to anywhere without driveway. It was one of my Must-Have when moving in 2014, was planning for EV ownership and Vehicle-2-home after seeing Nissan Leaf capabilities. 10 years later finally got V2H. 😅

Just looking at my Home Charging @ 22.03 pence a kWh then 4%-100% is taking 32 kWh, and getting 100 miles as a min, that is 400 + miles, 128 kWh for £22.03.

40 mpg would be 10 gallons 45.5 litres @ 145.7 pence, £66.29

 

Pity i have to Public Charge quite so much when doing more than 400 miles worth from home charging in a month.

50 pence a kWh is OK though.  

Paying 65 pence a kWh @ PodPoint for a 50 kW charge so so, but then 69 pence and higher is just crazy.

Edited 11 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

14 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

If I was running a car purely for cost effectiveness, then I would be back in a 2.0  diesel in a heartbeat.

 

I brimmed my 2.0 Diesel V70 yesterday and took my neighbours to Gatwick at dawn this morning.  A relatively good (for down here) 94 mile round trip.  When I got home my range left was 765 miles:

 

 

So in ideal conditions I appear to have potentially over 800 miles of range.  Diesel's currently cheaper than Momentum too 👍

 

Gaz

 

2 minutes ago, Gaz said:

94 mile round trip

Could have costed you £2 in electricity. Instead, you would have paid over £12 in diesel. 

 

It's never about the range in UK, I couldn't utilise 300 miles range in my EV because people wants a break sooner than car. 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Thank you for posting that video. This is prime example to "dismiss claims that the batteries do die".

 

This data analysis of over 500 Model S shows all sign point to 85% health after 200k miles and/or 10 years,

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration

 

This is my Model Y LR at almost 2 years old (the car was manufactured in July, looking at VIN) according to TeslaMate data recorder:

 

Equally there is a whole load of guff sprouted about ICE by EV owners, for instance Dave Takes It On, says that ICE cars are having engines failures after 100k miles and after about 150k catastrophic engine failure is on the cards, as he claims in this video.

 

 

So how would Dave explain this Audi A4 with 540,000 miles on the clock? Yes the car does have some faults, like a broken coil spring, but then again so would almost any other car of that mileage, I hear that Tesla's are renowned for broken springs?

 

 

Edited 11 June, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

I have never watched him before but will go through his vids now and follow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Could have costed you £2 in electricity. Instead, you would have paid over £12 in diesel. 

 

It's never about the range in UK, I couldn't utilise 300 miles range in my EV because people wants a break sooner than car. 

If @Gaz V70 is a D3 than it will do with ease on decent journeys, around 69 mpg so his 94-mile trip would be something like 10p per mile so costing more like £9.40 which would be cheaper than in an EV of similar size if relying on public chargers. You also give it what it costs if home charging, which we all agree is not available to a large slice of the population.

 

I think that we would agree that if anyone was looking to buy a car right now, and a new one at that, and you have the capability to charge at home then an EV can seem to quite an attractive option in terms of running costs, provided the car you were looking at buying had the capability of supercharging if you needed it on longer trips, especially if the driver and any passengers are like you and need comfort breaks at regular intervals. Personally, I don't need comfort breaks that often although, I certainly would need one long before my car did 🤣 thats for sure.

52 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Equally there is a whole load of guff sprouted about ICE by EV owners, for instance Dave Takes It On, says that ICE cars are having engines failures after 100k miles and after about 150k catastrophic engine failure is on the cards, as he claims in this video.

You should directly ask that particular youtuber, and also stop sharing things with which you obviously doesn't agree.

 

However, don't forget, to get that ICE 540k miles, how much was spent on engine oil changes and other servicing?

 

6 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think that we would agree that if anyone was looking to buy a car right now, and a new one at that, and you have the capability to charge at home then an EV can seem to quite an attractive option in terms of running costs, provided the car you were looking at buying had the capability of supercharging if you needed it on longer trips

Indeed, for people with driveway, EV should be the default first consideration now.

 

Doesn't have to have capability of supercharging. Tesla supercharging is not the only game in town. With Octopus Electroverse there's so many options out there that is compatible with just one RFID card. Cost of occasional public charging is not an issue if majority is home charged at less than 2.5 p/mile.

15 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

You should directly ask that particular youtuber, and also stop sharing things with which you obviously doesn't agree.

 

However, don't forget, to get that ICE 540k miles, how much was spent on engine oil changes and other servicing?

When I share things, I don't just automatically share things I agree with, but I try and share good and bad things so anyone reading this thread can then form a more balanced opinion, hence why I also posted that video of the 430,000 mile Tesla, or have you already forgot that I posted that?

 

Equally there are also things that could go wrong and sometimes do go wrong with EVs like broken springs or wheel bearings and even faulty electronic control modules, inverters, chargers etc, and even damaged/worn bearings in the drive motor which would almost certainly totally wreck the entire drive assembly as any coming together of the rotor and the stator would cause a catastrophic and very expensive failure to put right. Not forgetting that you still have oil in the reduction drives etc on an EV which also require servicing and changing at set periods of time. So in essence, EVs suffer from mechanical wear and tear just like their ICE counterparts and also all suffer the dreaded tin worm disease.

 

In reality however, unless you are one of the very few people who actually buy a car and plan to keep long term, then you are hardly likely to actually experience such problems and if anything goes wrong, then there is a good chance of the warranty covering it.

 

For the majority of private owners, then there is good chance of the car being scrapped for other reasons such as structural damage from rust or RTA's before many major failures occur.

40 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 

Indeed, for people with driveway, EV should be the default first consideration now.

 

 

Doesn't have to have capability of supercharging. Tesla supercharging is not the only game in town. With Octopus Electroverse there's so many options out there that is compatible with just one RFID card. Cost of occasional public charging is not an issue if majority is home charged at less than 2.5 p/mile.

When I said supercharging, I was not simply referring to the Tesla supercharging but the really fast 150kw+ CCS chargers so you could top up in as shorter timescale as possible so those odd longer trips don't have to be any longer than they need to be and thus minimise any inconvenience over a ICE car which can fully "recharged" in about 5 minutes or less, including a quick comfort break for a pee. Why can't all chargers just accept a debit/credit card and have reasonable costs as well, in the same vein as liquid fuel pumps and if you have a loyalty card that could be scanned at the same time if the charger is one that accepts such cards. There should not be the need to carry loads of different account RFID cards in order to get recharged.

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

I have never watched him before but will go through his vids now and follow.

 

That was a good balanced video, I thought.

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

That is very true. Scotland and Wales seems to have less ideal coverage. In Scotland one would be relying on CPS, which are quite poor.

This is a point made by the McMaster that many people at the time, I seem to recall, slated him for pointing out precisely the same thing.

Things have changed lots in Scotland in just 12 months as far as 100 kW / 100 + kW chargers, but they are expensive.

The MacMaster was totally missing Ultra Rapid chargers lots of his trips in Scotland quite obviously for affect.

The MacMaster did charge at expensive chargers when he could have used his 'preferential charge prices' at Porsche Chargers or Ionity.

 

It was Tesla Superchargers i was meaning as being near Cities & Towns and lots travel not on trunk routes so do require the CPS which are nearly all 50 kWh chargers for cheapness.

Those days are over, they are not cheap and can be time restricted which is an issue when also the chargers perform poorly. 

@Ootohere yes, you made the point before, but he has also made the point that he did not know about his Porsche navigation system would direct him to these chargers, he was using Waze, and also such chargers were not available on all of his trips.

 

But things are slowly improving all the time and improvements in the charging network still need to move on at a pace if the government want to their deadline. 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

If @Gaz V70 is a D3...

 

It is indeed a D3.  Geartronic though, so won't be as economical as a manual.  I've never had a car with such range before, and as the car is quite new to me, I was a bit exuberant in my earlier post replying to Lady E, bearing in mind this thread's about EV's.

 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Indeed, for people with driveway, EV should be the default first consideration now.

 

I have a drive and a garage that I can park right up against.  I've had an e-bike for eight years, and mobility scooters, so I'm clearly not adverse to electrified transport.  I've driven only a handful of EV's and have liked every one, despite going in with the assumption that I won't like them.  I enjoy reading your posts (and others) as you bring some positive context and are a bit of an antidote to a lot of EV negativity.  But when it comes to the next step, I've still not made it past the 'Not just yet' stage.  I could've traded in the GTI and got a larger EV (needed to be able to house a mobility scooter and folding bike in the boot), but I was happier to buy a 14 year old diesel estate, and there'll be a reason for that.  Maybe I'm just a risk averse conservative old dinosaur.  So while not a default, it was a consideration, albeit I remain in the 'Not just yet' fold.

 

Gaz