@Graham ButcherThat is quite a list.

It is only right that the Fire & Emergency services should be prepared with training and the equipment to deal with accidents or fires involving EV,s.

Just like there is equipment at airports to deal with incidents or fires of aircraft.

 

All good for the circular economy and those providing training and equipment.

There is going to need to be plenty of exercises with the Fire & Emergency Services staff dealing with EV fires as real life incidents are very few and far between at the present time it seems in the UK. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 August, 20232 yr by toot

50 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherThat is quite a list.

It is only right that the Fire & Emergency services should be prepared with training and the equipment to deal with accidents or fires involving EV,s.

Just like there is equipment at airports to deal with incidents or fires of aircraft.

 

All good for the circular economy and those providing training and equipment.

There is going to need to be plenty of exercises with the Fire & Emergency Services staff dealing with EV fires as real life incidents are very few and far between at the present time it seems in the UK. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting that he said about e scooters have been banned from being inside buildings in America and they only have a very small battery. Maybe that is where the London thing is coming from. As I understand it, it is not the authorities banning EVs in their residential underground carparks but the leaseholders or someone with the responsibility for the overall safety for the entire of a building as a whole?

On 14/08/2023 at 01:21, lol-lol said:

 

1. Journalists failing to research, person whose car is it used odd language and said gearbox was automatic/electric
2. Failing to listen to the person that this had happen to, car is a diesel
3. Error repeated across three major "news"-papers
4. Journos who do not know their cars
5. Not full retracted and corrected

Click-bate journalism and lack of quality control at these 3 rags.

 

 

6. They said it was a brand new EV car costing £22,000.

7. A new car with a 2014 number plate 🤥

8. There is so much to this story. 

“The fact that rain was reported as falling on the Greenland ice sheet — which in 70years of reporting has NEVER happened before — is without doubt a WAKE UP CALL to humanity.”

 

BCS journal winter ‘21.

 

We individually need to do what we can. Everything has pro’s and con’s. Even scattering my ashes will upset the ph balance. So I suspect cremation will be on the watch list soon as well.

 

I think, from catching up on this thread, that a small war of words is in progress.

 

May I suggest; gently, that neither side can win, and both sides can and will loose. I do have a side, but I’m trying to be nice. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree and move on.

 

I applaud the research and time taken to gather so many articles. Alas I work and don’t have time to digest it all. It appears impressive but could thanks to the internet all be ai hyperbole . Too many groups with interests beyond this biomes future. Even “ev” makers are tied into the destruction one way or another. We just have to minimise, pay the debt, hopefully give humanity a chance to figure it out and rectify.

 

I’ll take my chances with an ev. I’m ready. Although I have to destroy my front eco patch so I can charge it. Thanks road traffic act. 
 

in case we got lost on my ramblings, play nice please oh great keyboard warriors.
 

 

Edited 17 August, 20232 yr by ColinD

5 minutes ago, ColinD said:

“The fact that rain was reported as falling on the Greenland ice sheet — which in 70years of reporting has NEVER happened before — is without doubt a WAKE UP CALL to humanity.”

 

BCS journal winter ‘21.

 

We individually need to do what we can. Everything has pro’s and con’s. Even scattering my ashes will upset the ph balance. So I suspect cremation will be on the watch list soon as well.

 

I think, from catching up on this thread, that a small war of words is in progress.

 

May I suggest; gently, that neither side can win. I do have a side, but I’m trying to be nice. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree and move on.

 

I applaud the research and time taken to gather so many articles. Alas I work and don’t have time to digest it all. It appears impressive but could thanks to the internet all be ai hyperbole . Too many groups with interests beyond this biomes future. Even “ev” makers are tied into the destruction one way or another. We just have to minimise, pay the debt, hopefully give humanity a chance to figure it out and rectify.

 

I’ll take my chances with an ev. I’m ready. Although I have to destroy my front eco patch so I can charge it. Thanks road traffic act. 
 

in case we got lost on my ramblings, play nice please oh great keyboard warriors.
 

 

Thank you Colin, I have been trying to do just that but someone has to keep poking the fire because I don't share their particular point of view. Strange when most of us agree things need to change. 👍

I am sitting charging free again and in the car.  Ready to exit quickly if the car goes on fire.    Someone is paying for the electricity obviously and that is maybe those that pay the energy bills generally and those that have to look at wind farms or are being disrupted or disturbed by them.    Plenty of then around Scotland and more and more solar farms and ones planned.  There is a new one proposed within 1 mile of where I am in a NHS car park.  There is also a Battery Storage facility planned within 1/2 a mile.    That with the National Grid planned new bigger pylons going to be 2 miles away bringing electric from the offshore and onshore turbines south should mean plenty of the electricity needed around here will be generated locally.  Maybe the cost of energy to home owners, business,s and non EV drivers can drop or be free at off peak times when the grid needs balanced and it is not just the Energy Generators / wind farms being paid to not generate.     PS. Quite a high use of EV,s in Scotland per capita.   The instances of EV fires in Scotland over the past 12 years should be easily found.  

 

Edited 17 August, 20232 yr by toot

I am only posting to present counter arguments and dispel myths in comments. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Whatever evidence I provide, you somehow try and rubbish it or totally ignore it and then you go on to provide evidence that second hand EVs are less expensive than ICE cars with this link https://www.speakev.com/threads/second-hand-evs-are-cheaper-than-ice.179449 🙄 Are you trying to say that I shouldn't want to buy a new car because new EVs cost more than their new ICE equivalents.

Originally, you said you didn't have funds and never specified whether you wanted used or new. I am not a mind reader.  

On 14/08/2023 at 13:23, Graham Butcher said:

I can see that for some people they are the perfect solution for all kinds of reasons, just not for me given the purchase cost's etc. As an OAP I just don't have the necessary funds to purchase one and with type of journeys I make

For completeness, here are article/studies using purchase of new cars: 

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-faq/how-much-do-electric-vehicles-evs-cost

https://nickelinstitute.org/en/about-nickel-and-its-applications/nickel-in-batteries/total-cost-of-ownership-tco-for-electric-vehicles-ev-vs-internal-combustion-engine-vehicles-ice/

Key in both instances is "total cost of ownership". Only looking at purchase price is only part of the picture. 

 

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Then when I said about old second hand EVs would also suffer from battery degregation and thus less range and tried to counter that with "There's a healthy scrap market for second hand batteries: 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=leaf+battery&_sacat=0 So to my mind, how would an old EV be liability when its batteries are an asset waiting to be re-used? "

You were talking about battery degradation as reason for used EV being cheaper. The Achilles heel part I read as failure point for very old cars that will be beyond economical repair. Hence pointing out if the car is beyond economical repair, the battery still holds significant value. 

On 14/08/2023 at 16:00, Graham Butcher said:

As to second hand EV cars being cheaper than ICE, there is a reason for that, the battery has already received a blow to its longevity and range capacity has been diminished just as the battery in your smartphone, laptop etc. Unlike a ICE car that has been properly looked after, their Achilles heel is in the form of rust and EVs will still have this problem in addition to the battery.

I then further clarified degradation comparison to smart phones, using my almost-9-years old Leaf and other Leaf/Tesla as example. In this post, in case you missed it: 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

You gave me this link Electric Vehicles | Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service (bedsfire.gov.uk) which only mentions E scooters and even then hardly anything about them.

I could have hit you with these links but I decided it was not worth it because you would not even accept what they were saying as gospel.

The Bedfordshire fire service stated 2019 a small ratio between EV and ICE car fires: 

"Data obtained by Air Quality News through a Freedom of Information (FOI) request revealed that in 2019 the London Fire Brigade dealt with just 54 electric vehicle fires compared to 1,898 petrol and diesel fires."

Hum... 

On 14/08/2023 at 14:54, Graham Butcher said:

When you come across information that has been researched by various professors from well known and respected universities, it would be a daft person to ignore their findings because it disagreed with their own opinions.

 

I consider the following links not gospel, although may have missed a few. 

I'd group them into 2 categories. 

Factual record: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicle_fire_incidents

 

Prevention and best practices: 

https://www.essex-fire.gov.uk/news/essex-firefighters-adapt-new-hazards-electric-vehicle-fires#:~:text=Several approaches have been tested,cool down the battery material.

https://www.firerescue1.com/firefighter-training/articles/what-firefighters-need-to-know-about-electric-car-batteries-omiDv8vd87oZ9ZKs/

https://www.ddfire.gov.uk/electric-vehicle-safety-advice

https://www.nationalfirechiefs.org.uk/Emergency-responders-guide-for-alternatively-fuelled-vehicles

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/uk-company-reveals-6wd-ev-battery-fire-response-truck

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/consumer-news/360108/thermal-runaway-ev-battery-fires-controlled-water-cutting-tech

https://cesafety.co.uk/news/data-reveals-extent-of-electric-vehicle-fires-around-the-uk/

https://www.ife.org.uk/IFE-Blog/tackling-fires-in-electric-vehicles-

https://futurism.com/the-byte/electric-cars-lighting-houses-on-fire

 

I think the final link summarises it very well: 

"But how widespread the problem is remains to be seen. There's still no evidence that EVs catch fire at higher rates than gas-powered vehicles, the Post points out — though it didn't track down comprehensive data on the phenomenon."

 

Again, I never deny thermal runaway is an issue. But it's on a risk scale. As I repeatedly pointed out, you only focusing on the worst aspect, not presenting the full picture. 

It's like saying airplanes crash, therefore nobody should fly an airplane. The question got to ask is, what are the risks of crashes, how to prevent crashes? Is the risk worth the reward? 

46 minutes ago, toot said:

I am sitting charging free again and in the car.  Ready to exit quickly if the car goes on fire.    Someone is paying for the electricity obviously and that is maybe those that pay the energy bills generally and those that have to look at wind farms or are being disrupted or disturbed by them.    Plenty of then around Scotland and more and more solar farms and ones planned.  There is a new one proposed within 1 mile of where I am in a NHS car park.  There is also a Battery Storage facility planned within 1/2 a mile.    That with the National Grid planned new bigger pylons going to be 2 miles away bringing electric from the offshore and onshore turbines south should mean plenty of the electricity needed around here will be generated locally.  Maybe the cost of energy to home owners, business,s and non EV drivers can drop or be free at off peak times when the grid needs balanced and it is not just the Energy Generators / wind farms being paid to not generate.     PS. Quite a high use of EV,s in Scotland per capita.   The instances of EV fires in Scotland over the past 12 years should be easily found.  

Ideas like that may be the catalyst that is required to convince people to make the switch to EVs as well reducing the cost of ownership to make EVs comparable to that for ICEs.  I know that @wyx087 goes on about overall costs, but that is of little comfort if the cost of entry is seen as being prohibitive for those on low incomes, it has to be affordable. Overall costs are such a subjective issue as they will vary greatly by the style of driving and of course the annual mileage, but ticket to the dance has to within grasp and not just to the better off sectors of the population.   

Sadly it’s the better offs that prime anything.

 

who had horses for pleasure riding vs walking.

 

who had cars vs horse, walking.

 

who have planes vs boat.

 

who has helicopters vs everything else

 

who has rocket ships… vs saving the biome.

 

It always starts at the top and trickles down. A few exceptions might be “developing” countries that get a hundred year leg up. But 90%; made up figure, still walk and a car is an impractical dream. 
 

electric trains, trams and cars were around before/as fuel was developed. Technology has caught up now to redress the imbalance. It’s happening.

9 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Ideas like that may be the catalyst that is required to convince people to make the switch to EVs as well reducing the cost of ownership to make EVs comparable to that for ICEs.  I know that @wyx087 goes on about overall costs, but that is of little comfort if the cost of entry is seen as being prohibitive for those on low incomes, it has to be affordable. Overall costs are such a subjective issue as they will vary greatly by the style of driving and of course the annual mileage, but ticket to the dance has to within grasp and not just to the better off sectors of the population.   

The per-mile cost of EV's, on a time-of-use tariff at 7.5p/kWh is as low as 2.5p/mile. In comparison, diesel is typically 12p/mile. You can see how savings could quickly add up.

 

Annual servicing costs are also lower because there's less work required.

 

On the other side of the coin, insurance costs are typically slightly higher for EV's.

 

Also got to remember a large portion of new car owners pay by monthly payments. Again, total monthly spend for using a vehicle should be the focus, not the sole cost of car.

Edited 17 August, 20232 yr by wyx087

1 minute ago, wyx087 said:

The per-mile cost of EV's, on a time-of-use tariff at 7.5p/kWh is as low as 2.5p/mile. In comparison, diesel is typically 12p/mile. You can see how savings could quickly add up.

 

Even when not on a time of use tariff, just fixed rate / offers that any reasonably diligent homeowner should take advantage of, EVs are cheaper or even cheap to run. I cannot get a time of use tariff due to smart meter issues but manage to keep my leccy costs down by diligent use of fixed rates and now a tracker tariff. Lifetime fuel costs for 30K in my ID.4 is 6p/mile - real world costs. By comparison our Citigo costs 12p/mile in petrol while averaging 50+mpg.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

The per-mile cost of EV's, on a time-of-use tariff at 7.5p/kWh is as low as 2.5p/mile. In comparison, diesel is typically 12p/mile. You can see how savings could quickly add up.

 

Annual servicing costs are also lower because there's less work required.

 

On the other side of the coin, insurance costs are typically slightly higher for EV's.

 

Also got to remember a large portion of new car owners pay by monthly payments. Again, total monthly spend for using a vehicle should be the focus, not the sole cost of car.

How many people have the ability to charge at home which the above figures are assuming, plus you need to factor in the £1,000 plus cost of the home charger and its installation, plus the extra up front costs of the EV against its ICE equivalent, also of course there aren't that many EVs that could accommodate 4 people that 6ft 4" tall and still have a boot space similar to that of a Superb. Most of the public chargers, which I would have to use, are in the realms of 50p per KWh and higher, which destroys your calculations, then if you don't do that many miles per year, any potential savings are not worth having as the upfront extra cost is never going to be repaid unless you keep the car for a long time. As I've always thought and said, EV's are currently not suitable for everyone and if the above figures are reflecting your scenario, then I'm pleased for you, but is not the case for a large part of the population.

44 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

How many people have the ability to charge at home which the above figures are assuming, plus you need to factor in the £1,000 plus cost of the home charger and its installation, plus the extra up front costs of the EV against its ICE equivalent, also of course there aren't that many EVs that could accommodate 4 people that 6ft 4" tall and still have a boot space similar to that of a Superb. Most of the public chargers, which I would have to use, are in the realms of 50p per KWh and higher, which destroys your calculations, then if you don't do that many miles per year, any potential savings are not worth having as the upfront extra cost is never going to be repaid unless you keep the car for a long time. As I've always thought and said, EV's are currently not suitable for everyone and if the above figures are reflecting your scenario, then I'm pleased for you, but is not the case for a large part of the population.

No denying EV isn't suitable for everyone, especially those who cannot charge at home.

 

But because you've been very specific, here's a similarly specific response:

 

Tesla Model Y at £45k. https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/modely/design#overview

Skoda Superb mid level SE L with a few options to bring it in-line with MY £41k. With more knowledge, you may be able to configure a cheaper car with similar stuff equipped. I've only gone down the options list and ticked once that I know are standard on MY.

So that's £4k price difference.

 

Tesla does not require servicing to maintain warranty. Let's say £100 for air filter change over 4 years. (cabin filter every 2, HEPA ever 3)

Skoda Service plan is £480 for first 2 services. Is that long life, so over 4 years?

 

Insurance is very personal/location specific. But Tesla insurance are expensive. So let's be pessimistic and add £400 pa. more in running cost for Tesla.

Total difference £1600 more on MY.

 

Buying September 2023, there is 2 years of £0 tax for the EV and followed by £180 subsequent years.

There is an expensive car tax on the Superb for first 5 years, let's keep it at our 4 years ownership. £490 per year.

So that's a difference of £1600 more on Superb. Convenient number

 

So that's only £3620 price difference over 4 years. Assuming 100% of price difference need to be clawed back within the 4 years of ownership. As in, when selling, both cars worth the same after 4 years.

But remember, MY is a few classes above Superb in performance, internal size and brand appeal, not to mention in-car tech and safety rating. More comparable Skoda model is the Kodiaq which is ~£3000 more expensive than Superb.

 

Over 4 years, let's say 50k miles covered.

If charged at home, 7.5p/kWh (Intelligent Octopus), 3.5mi/kWh (MY RWD can easily average 4 mi/kWh), this is running cost of 2.15p/mile. So at very least £5000 saving in fuel. But need to -£1000 for home EV charge point install. Still overall saving of £400.

If no home charging and charged exclusively at Tesla superchargers, which are averaging 40p/kWh, this is running cost of 11.42p/mile. So a p or so cheaper than very economical diesel.

 

Are EV's really more expensive to own? Are they really more expensive to buy when spec'd to same level?

Edited 17 August, 20232 yr by wyx087
typo and clarify options list

Charging at home is the game changer, no doubt about that. Public charging is pricey and for me many chargers would be more expensive than a diesel. My break even point is currently 58p/kWh, so I can find some public charging below that cost and thus the EV is still cheaper. I agree not having facility to charge at home is a disadvantage and more needs to be done to make charging affordable for those without private parking. 

As for space in an EV to compare with a Superb, you should have a sit in a Skoda Enyaq or VW ID.4 or their rivals. Purpose built EVs rather than an ICE car converted to run BEV (e.g. Stellantis group) provide more internal space than a similar sized ICE. We bought the ID.4 as it was a similar size to our Skoda Karoq, but had not sat in one. We soon realised internally the ID.4 (Enyaq is more roomy!) is much bigger than a Karoq and we would happily down-size to an EV mid-sized hatch.

I tried a Enyaq, still not as big as a Superb and a much smaller boot as well. 

Dundee Port this morning.

More wind turbines? 

Lots and lots and lots of wind turbines.

 

One went on fire in the wind farm off Norfolk the other day. 

Nobody on board and no need for any fire fighting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 August, 20232 yr by toot

I was cursing the driver on the VW e_Up because the other Rapid in town was out of service & they had plugged into the Rapid and got 3 kWh in 30 minutes and it was at 99%.

I went on the AC for a couple of kWh and when the charger cut out on the VW i unplugged it and started charging.

Not long after i had started a Parking Warden came past and we were in conversation about those that just take the Michael or do not understand charging.

 

Thankfully i kept him occupied a while or a long while before he was getting around to doing a ticket for being in an EV Bay and not charging.

The couple arrived back and were apologetic and he accepted they were visitors and in a hire car and unfamiliar with how it works and how the car charges.

 

I spent the next hour chatting with them. A lovely lively couple.

Just the usual, arrived at the airport and got an EV and thought how bad can it be.

No real tutorial on the car and the battery size or charging and they have muddled by.

They have Edinburgh to get to and charge, then another 100 plus miles south to go before returning the car and were told it has to be at 100%.

 

What a horlicks the whole EV car hire thing is as far as i have seen from those getting ones in Scotland and having to figure out charging.

I'd love to get EV hire car. But it's stupid how one have to do homework learning about the unfamiliar area's charging networks, whereas petrol/diesel can just pull up and refuel.

 

Of course if in an unfamiliar area with unfamiliar charging networks, I'd prefer to get a Tesla so I don't have to figure out other networks. I tried hiring a Tesla during my Munich/Austria trip. They are all 2 or 3x the price of a regular "standard" car.

 

 

 

Came across Li-Cycle doing Li-on battery recycling by rushing it all in a special liquid and then separate out useful materials. So mining only need to happen once.

The video goes into more detail with closed loop water in the recycle plant and zero burning.

 

Of course, remember the order of 3R's. Reduce, re-use, recycle. So before EV battery gets recycled, they are re-used:

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/what-happens-old-electric-car-batteries

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

I'd love to get EV hire car. But it's stupid how one have to do homework learning about the unfamiliar area's charging networks, whereas petrol/diesel can just pull up and refuel.

 

Of course if in an unfamiliar area with unfamiliar charging networks, I'd prefer to get a Tesla so I don't have to figure out other networks. I tried hiring a Tesla during my Munich/Austria trip. They are all 2 or 3x the price of a regular "standard" car.

 

 

 

Came across Li-Cycle doing Li-on battery recycling by rushing it all in a special liquid and then separate out useful materials. So mining only need to happen once.

The video goes into more detail with closed loop water in the recycle plant and zero burning.

 

 

Of course, remember the order of 3R's. Reduce, re-use, recycle. So before EV battery gets recycled, they are re-used:

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/what-happens-old-electric-car-batteries

Now this is the type of thing we need more of, up to now it has been one of the missing links in the whole EV loop, now we need to address the problem of preventing / or reducing the chances of thermal runaway, maybe design the sealed enclosure so that if it happens, they vent downwards rather than sideways to minimise the collateral damage (dragging other EVs into the meltdown and creating a massive chain event). While it is a pretty rare event now for EVs to catch fire, as they become more common, the events will increase naturally. The other elephant in the room that everyone needs to take on board before complacency sets in, is that it is also very rare for new cars to catch fire, it tends to be older cars, 10 plus years old with many miles under their belt and everything is getting worn and fuel drips onto hot exhausts etc, so we might well see increases in EV fires as they age. 

 

I think the reason why EV hire cars are so expensive to hire is a reflection of their higher purchase price, higher performance, and also their higher insurance costs, seems to be a perfectly logical conclusion.

Edited 17 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

43 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think the reason why EV hire cars are so expensive to hire is a reflection of their higher purchase price, higher performance, and also their higher insurance costs, seems to be a perfectly logical conclusion.

Not in America, apparently:

https://www.speakev.com/threads/5-days-with-a-model-3-my-review.179207/

 

I personally put it down to engrained mindset (not offering), rarity (expensive) and slow adoption.

 

When I asked the German rental company whilst picking up, they said they don't offer it due to poor charging network. But as EV owner, I looked at Octopus Electroverse accepted sites and in combination with Tesla chargers, I'm very sure I can make a Tesla work. It would be nice for them to offer the option like in the America.

 

43 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The other elephant in the room that everyone needs to take on board before complacency sets in, is that it is also very rare for new cars to catch fire, it tends to be older cars, 10 plus years old with many miles under their belt and everything is getting worn and fuel drips onto hot exhausts etc, so we might well see increases in EV fires as they age. 

And where will the fuel and hot exhaust be located in a BEV? 😜

 

As the car ages, batteries degrade, BMS algorithm takes note and prevents over charging. Minimised this fire risk.

Accidents damaged battery, battery get repaired and recertified as per a process (do we have those? as far as I'm aware currently only manufacturer can do that). This fire risk is also minimised.

Hot components are bearings, motors and heaters. All are nowhere near the battery. Battery is completely immovable by being bolted centrally to the frame of the car. The problem in accidents is actually battery being punctured, as your firefighter video showed. I know early Model S had bottom shield upgraded to prevent such incidents with large road debris. I would think all modern EV's have similar amount of under battery protection.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/03/shields-up-tesla-model-s-gains-free-titanium-and-aluminum-armor-upgrade/

Edited 17 August, 20232 yr by wyx087

23 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

And where will the fuel and hot exhaust be located in a BEV? 😜

 

As the car ages, batteries degrade, BMS algorithm takes note and prevents over charging. Minimised this fire risk.

Accidents damaged battery, battery get repaired and recertified as per a process (do we have those? as far as I'm aware currently only manufacturer can do that). This fire risk is also minimised.

Hot components are bearings, motors and heaters. All are nowhere near the battery. Battery is completely immovable by being bolted centrally to the frame of the car. The problem in accidents is actually battery being punctured, as your firefighter video showed. I know early Model S had bottom shield upgraded to prevent such incidents with large road debris. I would think all modern EV's have similar amount of under battery protection.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/03/shields-up-tesla-model-s-gains-free-titanium-and-aluminum-armor-upgrade/

Well, I'm not going head-to-head with you on that one, let's just wait and see what happens, but my gut tells me, that software and electronics have minds of their own at times and thanks to Murphys footsoldiers, capacitors will wreak havoc in time, mark my words on that one.

Quote

After inspecting the damaged ship, he told the local press that between 900 and 1000 of the cars on board appear to be in good condition — including all 498 electric cars.

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/08/17/a-ship-carrying-electric-cars-is-on-fire-we-must-run-and-tell-the-king/

 

So the uncontrollable fire on the ship had nothing to do with EV's. 

19 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/08/17/a-ship-carrying-electric-cars-is-on-fire-we-must-run-and-tell-the-king/

 

So the uncontrollable fire on the ship had nothing to do with EV's. 

This is still not concrete evidence by your own terms of reference, it needs to written by a couple a professors 😆😆 I'll wait for the official report to confirm the actual cause. Personally I hope no EVs were involved at all, it would improve confidence in them.

Edited 18 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

An article about a shipping company in Norway.   Note, 'Classic ferry route'. 

http://ctif.org/news/norwegian-shipping-company-bans-electric-cars-board-classic-ferry-route

 

Worth doing a search.

Norway Electric Car Fires.

Articles on the Ferries, the Car Park Fire and various research and reports.

 

 

If not getting an EV or getting in one or getting on a car ferry maybe just chill.    If you are concerned maybe best stay in the house as the world is a risky place.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23595526.hidden-threat-scots-ferry-safety-electric-vehicles

 

 

http://cesafety.co.uk/news/data-reveals-extent-of-electric-vehicle-fires-around-the-uk

Misleading title as 'No records were sent for Scotland'  So not 'Around the UK.'

 

Good that Electric Fire Engines have been developed.

http://greencarguide.co.uk/features/scotland-and-electric-vehicles-whats-happening

 

Scottish Fire & Rescue must have done safety assessments before the employees truck about in the Electric cars and vans.

http://electrive.com/2021/11/01/scottish-fire-rescue-service-relies-on-edf-for-charging

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 August, 20232 yr by toot