So maybe £ and not $,

It makes all the difference where you can generate from solar during the day and sell it or have it stored in your batteries and use little in the home and then have Off peak tariffs and charge your car, charge the batteries, do you washing / cooking as use the oven on a timer during the off peak. 

2 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

(needs to tow 1414kg)

You'll need to look at very recent EV's. The efficiency takes a big hit, so you'll need to recharge more often than without.

 

 

Unless you do towing only once or twice a year and can rent for those occasions?

 

1 hour ago, Stonekeeper said:

I remember in 2020 when the sale of fuel dropped significantly due to little use the price dropped to below a pound a litre.

Oh yeah that was great. I was "essential" and had to travel back to office ~150 miles away about once a month. Almost empty motorway and £1 per litre diesel. I was almost looking forward to the 3 hours drive.

2 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

 

The infrastructure needs sorting though as well. Motorway services do not have enough chargers now, the ones i saw when walking to the building where amongst the parked cars but with no way of knowing who was queuing up for them so when one moved off i witnessed a bit of a to do over who was next.

 

Petrol hybrid v Diesel?

 

 

Yes, I agree the infrastructure most definitely needs a good sort out and the problem you highlighted about cars waiting in line to use one of the few available chargers and the problems arising when there can be some heated exchanges between drivers about who is next is understandable as people just get charged and be on their way again. These things don't tend to happen with conventional fuelled cars.

2 hours ago, toot said:

30 pence a kWh going down to 27 pence is not a 20% drop.  @lol-lol who is getting their electricity for 20% less? 

No you are right, a drop of 3p a kWh is only a 10% reduction, so was it a typo thing or what?

1 hour ago, Stonekeeper said:

I do hope there is nobody thinking that the more people turn to EVs that the price of Electricity will plummet.

 

I also hope they don't think having a smart meter reduces their electricity bill.

 

Unless they had no idea boiling a kettle cost money before.

I fully expect that once the majority have switched over to EV, that the electric prices will once again begin to climb as the suppliers will be putting their shareholders before affordable fuel for people to use in their cars to get to and from work. Also the unions will gain huge powers as industrial action would have a far greater impact.

 

Arh yes the smart meters, I remember when they peddled that they would or could reduce your energy bills and were using that get to people having them installed. They forgot to add that would only be the case if you took action yourself and turned things off 😀. Now I read that smart meters are going to be mandatory and it may involve in police having to accompany suppliers engineers when installing them and in some cases having the police force entry to properties in order to install them, so why the heavy hand now?

@Graham Butcherwhere have you read this, and when are these going to be mandatory?     This type of story telling is a real issue.     @Leemaybe has a clip with Colin from Portsmouth saying much the same. 

Edited 1 October, 20232 yr by toot

11 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

Solar power and a power bank is great if you are young enough to recoup your investment in them

 

 

One does not have to permanently mount either the solar panels or batteries which hold cheap electricity from off peak grid supply or that from solar panels.

One just takes the array and the batteries with one when one moves.

Example of solar array, a sol tracking one and a battery which has solar as well as grid input and an inverter capable of powering home appliances. Allpowers, Bluetti and Ecoflow are common choice and can be had for under a grand and will save about a £1 a day and they will work for a decade giving near original capacity.  They can be daisy chained to supply many GWh of power, enough to supply the house's major appliance through the day and then be recharged again at night on the cheap lecky.  Some people carry them in the car as emergency charge ie Bjorn Nyland in his EV drive the vehicle until it dies tests.

 

 

  

Edited 2 October, 20232 yr by lol-lol

@toot This is no joke, it is not a storey, I can assure that this was a genuine report / article whatever only a few days ago and you would be miles away from the truth if you are attempting to make it out to be a YouTuber stirring the pot. I seem to recall that it came from a report by the National Grid or Government, if I can find it I'll gladly share it to prove that's it not a figment of my imagination or anything other than the truth. 

48 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

No you are right, a drop of 3p a kWh is only a 10% reduction, so was it a typo thing or what?

 

As I said above it was over a who year for me with my 20 hours a day price dropping from 40p per kWh to just under 30p per kWh so actually by one quarter for me but I get 4 hours at 9p per kWh so if I left my fridge freezer on, which seems to require 100Ws to keep it going then I was paying 83p per day for my fridge freezer (20X4p+4x0.75p) ie 83p but now I am paying 64p (20 X 3p+4 x 0.9p) which is just under 64p so 83/64 =  nearly 30% less but I actually did before, and do now, effectively only pay about 24 x 0.9p ie less than 22p a day to power the fridge freezer. Actually power the laptop, charge phones, shaver a many other items.  The Allpower solar gen has 100w US type C as well as several type A so most things get charged via the batteries which are also grabbing solar power from my panels to help reduce even the night time downing need for lecky.

 

Biggest download is for the EV on the nightime lecky as this dwarfs the power for the solar battery as they are only 4 kwh but the car is 50 kwh.  Washing Machine and Tumble Dryer set by timing clocks to use the 9 p per kWh lecky too, unless I am up anyway watch motorsport from Far Asia or Australia.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Now I read that smart meters are going to be mandatory and it may involve in police having to accompany suppliers engineers when installing them and in some cases having the police force entry to properties in order to install them, so why the heavy hand now?

 

You really must start asking yourself whether something you have read (or imagined) is plausible before repeating it.

 

That sort of nonsense was rife in France and dissimulated by EDF/Energis who had a vested interest, 99.99% of the people here swallow it which equates to the in most cases forced take up of the Linky meters, I am one of the 0.01% and have yet to meet another, they tried all sorts, frequently doorstepping me and trotting out the ridiculous to me line which works with 99.99% of French people "you are the only one not converted in the area" expecting me to be ashamed.

 

There were also lots of false stories printed that those who had not converted would be charged hundreds of Euros a year for meter reading as the government had allowed a law change.

 

In fact all that happened was that if I do not inform them of my meter reading then I will be charged €8 every 2 months until I do so. Even that cannot happen in practice because the contract I have with them (I will not sign another) obliges them to tke a meter reading every 12 months not me, I paid an awfull lot of money to supply and install 8 EDF approved latest generation meters in 2013 including the comms cabling to the outside remote reading pastille which is now redundant together with their meter readers.

 

Why the heavy hand? Well its just scare stories but the reason behind them is that once a smart meter is fitted they can remotely cut off your supply or restrict it to 3kw or even 1kw  when it suits them, they will of course lobby for the law changes giving them the powers to do so, I guarantee you that it will be declared to be for reducing CO2 or whatever the mantra of the day is then.

Smart meters CAN help reduce your bills. These devices are what give access to the Time of Use tariffs offered by the suppliers nationally. I'm very keen to get a working smart meter as my average price per kWh would drop from around 20p on Octopus Tracker to 14 or 15p on Octopus Go (cheap rate midnight to 4am). The key is I have to be responsible for making use of the opportunities to save money afforded by a smart meter.

In the same way it is up to me to reduce my consumption to save money and be more green. Last winter I turned down the flow temp in my boiler to increase efficiency through greater use of condensing mode, my tank of oil lasted an extra two months. Savings through my actions. This year I'm installing more loft insulation and even though my house is well insulated, I'll still see improvement. 

37 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

Smart meters CAN help reduce your bills. These devices are what give access to the Time of Use tariffs offered by the suppliers nationally. I'm very keen to get a working smart meter as my average price per kWh would drop from around 20p on Octopus Tracker to 14 or 15p on Octopus Go (cheap rate midnight to 4am).

Example, my latest bill: 

 

I think the only heavy handed approach to smart meter we'll ever see is increase in regular flat rate tariff to the point where it is logical money saving to go time-of-use tariff. For example, TOU tariff max out at 33 p/kWh for a few hours but is lower all other times, flat rate at 30 p/kWh all the time. 

 

Octopus Go and Intelligent is already along those lines for EV drivers. Off-peak is 9.5p and 7.5p respectively. Other times it's only a few pence higher than regular. With majority of home electricity usage being very flexible thanks to ownership of EV battery, majority of usage can be shifted to cheapest periods. So it is logical to have smart meter. 

Edited 2 October, 20232 yr by wyx087

@J.R.I am trying to locate the article so can actually quote it so you can all decide on its validity. I'm having trouble getting either either my energy supplier or the network operator to either pull the fuse or fit an isolater. I need this done so the solar panel engineers can sort out the faulty system. They are refusing to work on the system while the supply is live.

 

So it's my guess that I came this across article while researching this or from a news outlet, either way it was apparently a reliable source. 

 

As to getting the fuse pulled or an isolater fitted, both network operator and supplier say that they cannot do that. 😒

Edited 2 October, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

Regarding 'bullying tactics' for smart meter installation, this page at citizens advice explains that it is not compulsory, and gives a link to contact them to report any unwelcome pressure from a supplier.  Just scroll down one third of the way to the heading "Refusing a smart meter".

Getting a smart meter installed - Citizens Advice

 

Personally I'm not in any way against them, and don't share the paranoia about supply throttling; I also have one.

But when the 90+ year-old neighbours were told they must have one (which they didn't want), I was very prompt in finding the info in that link for them.

Smart mater's can allow those with them to get electricity cheaper at times.    But really people who have no idea about those who only have a few quid a day to do some cooking, washing and maybe not even have heating are not going to be saving money just because they can charge their EV during the night or because someone that uses more in an hour at peak time than they do in a while day is getting credited for stopping the grid being under stress.    This is another con for the more than 'Just getting by' crowd, maybe even Tory Voters.   What a b-alls up with smart meters and those as usual making a fortune in the manufacture and installation and much more of a not fit for purpose product with many of them.     All with them by 2012 is a distant memory, as is the penalty for the energy or transmission companies that never met the targets for having them installed. 

Edited 2 October, 20232 yr by toot

Compensation to those that have been lied to and constantly bothered to get them and who get landed with faulty ones is what needs rolled out UK wide.   Some people do get this because of the behaviour of the energy companies and the partner companies they use and call centres and practices of cold calling and misinformation.    Lying actually about how legally you must have one.  How your meter is out of date etc.     PS.  What an odd way some are reporting the Price Cap difference this quarter.    The plain fact is last year is Account holders got £400 and that could have been for 1 account / property of any number of properties they had accounts in their name, or someone in the family or their business.   The government were very generous with those that allow them to give away money to anyone regardless of need or actually easily to those maybe with no need..

Edited 2 October, 20232 yr by toot

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/09/30/ev-power-point-shortage-driver-disputes-motorway-services/

Quote

 

Britain’s biggest motorway service station provider has brought in marshals to police “charge rage” among electric vehicle drivers battling for access to plug-in points.

 

 

Public disorder risk
Mr McMeikan said he had repeatedly told Jesse Norman, the minister for transport decarbonisation, that making EV motorists queue would put his staff and motorists at risk of “charge rage.”

“I’ve had conversations with Jesse Norman, with special advisers and with National Highways who are responsible for managing the motorway network. They are all responsible for ensuring chargers are being deployed on the motorways but they are not doing it. They are not addressing the fundamental issue, which is electrical power.”

 

 

Very easy to blame someone else. It's amazing how much a bit of foresight and white paint can do. Why does none of the rapid charging hot spots have standarised place to queue like petrol stations? 

 

The key is having enough rapid charging facility to support peak private travel season (eg holidays). Something charge point operator seems to ignore in their metric statistics. low utilisation averaged over 24/7/365 does not mean they've installed enough chargers.

 

Grid connection isn't necessarily an issue, battery buffering can be used. See Teby, after Christmas 22 disaster, they now have 12 stalls with battery support. 

 

Also, for peak season, they could install temporary charging solutions. Lemme find the link on youtube..... 

 

 

Edited 2 October, 20232 yr by wyx087

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Example, my latest bill: 

 

I think the only heavy handed approach to smart meter we'll ever see is increase in regular flat rate tariff to the point where it is logical money saving to go time-of-use tariff. For example, TOU tariff max out at 33 p/kWh for a few hours but is lower all other times, flat rate at 30 p/kWh all the time. 

 

Octopus Go and Intelligent is already along those lines for EV drivers. Off-peak is 9.5p and 7.5p respectively. Other times it's only a few pence higher than regular. With majority of home electricity usage being very flexible thanks to ownership of EV battery, majority of usage can be shifted to cheapest periods. So it is logical to have smart meter. 

 

So are bi-directional wall chargers are now available with octopus?

 

https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/electric-vehicles/vehicle-to-house-charging

 

"The main hurdle is the fact you cannot retrofit existing electric vehicles with VTG technology. To make a vehicle capable of feeding back to the grid, its battery has to be specifically designed to do so."

Edited 2 October, 20232 yr by Stonekeeper

Tesla superchargers

 

"V1 and V2 Superchargers can run at a maximum 150kW DC if there’s only 1 car attached, while more advanced V3 chargers go up to 250kW. As soon as a 2nd Tesla connects to any Supercharger that is already in use, however, the maximum charging rate could decrease on the 1st car, although the 1st car’s charging rate is prioritised. Charging rates also vary for 1 car hooked up to a Tesla Supercharger, depending on the climatic conditions, the state of charge of the vehicle’s battery and so on – so don’t always expect 250kW from a V3 charger, for example, even if you’re on it on your own."

14 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

So are bi-directional wall chargers are now available with octopus?

 

https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/electric-vehicles/vehicle-to-house-charging

 

"The main hurdle is the fact you cannot retrofit existing electric vehicles with VTG technology. To make a vehicle capable of feeding back to the grid, its battery has to be specifically designed to do so."

V2G/H depends on the car. Currently the wider industry isn't ready for this yet. CCS standard V2X spec was only published in 2022 (IIRC). No cars support this currently. 

Nothing to do with smart meter or Octopus the energy supplier. Energy supplier don't care if you have house battery or bi-directional chargers. 

 

Currently only Nissan Leaf's Chademo rapid charging supports V2G or V2H. I'm getting V2H installed end of this month. 

Ford offer V2H via AC for their F150 EV trucks in US. 

MG and Korean cars offer V2L (load), where you can plug in a kettle to the car. But the car cannot sync to the grid. 

 

The bold text you quoted is just me saying majority of home electricity usage will come from EV miles, so with the car parked on the drive, it is easy to be flexible in when you can charge it and shift charging exclusively to cheap periods. I wasn't implying bidirectional charging is a thing right now, although it would certainly help in the future when it arrives. 

 

15 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

Tesla superchargers

 

"V1 and V2 Superchargers can run at a maximum 150kW DC if there’s only 1 car attached, while more advanced V3 chargers go up to 250kW. As soon as a 2nd Tesla connects to any Supercharger that is already in use, however, the maximum charging rate could decrease on the 1st car, although the 1st car’s charging rate is prioritised. Charging rates also vary for 1 car hooked up to a Tesla Supercharger, depending on the climatic conditions, the state of charge of the vehicle’s battery and so on – so don’t always expect 250kW from a V3 charger, for example, even if you’re on it on your own."

Indeed, never trust the headline number. Typically charge rate slows down as battery fills up. More important is how long it takes to charge enough to go to next charger or destination (something car sat-nav should be able to tell you) and how consistently the car can achieve max charge rate without external factor. Tesla can achieve max charge rate pretty consistently regardless of climatic conditions because they pre-condition the battery as you drive up to the superchargers. 

 

As for external factor, V1/V2's load sharing is very good. It reduces cost of charger install, reduces queue by increasing plugs. Even in ideal conditions, EV doesn't pull full power for long. So sharing the power and worst case prolong charge time by a few minutes isn't end of the world. 

 

V3/V4 are 1 MW charger shared between 4 stalls to achieve 250 kW, meaning V3 and V4 wouldn't reduce charge rate when other people plug in. 

 

Here is a run down of all the variables. 

https://fastnedcharging.com/hq/everything-youve-always-wanted-to-know-about-fast-charging/

'Driveway charging'  & chargers off street is lovely, and in the town i am in there will be those with them.

6,300 of a population. 

 

No help to those wanting charged here as they are on a journey and passing through and needing power into their car.

I am parked near the School & there are 4 EV,s including mine that i can see.

About 2 hundred yards away is the one Rapid charger next to the post with 2 kW chargers.

At the weekend the Tesla Y was on the Tethered AC for 11 hours and had drawn 32 kWh of electricity for free instead of using one of the 7 kW ports that was available.

There are 6 7 kW AC 1/2 a mile away & 2 at the Train Station.  (The HC has NHS only chargers for them and the Police.)

 

There is a Private Rapid @ a Farm Shop 4 miles away and a single CPS Rapid with 11 kW AC on the side 5 miles away.

 

This is a pretty well served town for Scotland but considering it is on the South West 300 route and the route to the ferries to Ireland it is pathetic.

.................

 

https://thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/dundee/4765706/dundee-transport-plan-more-ev-chargers-20mph-zones

(See the comments and the Drugs death per capita capital of the UK has many services being cut but comparing the 20 mph zones to Edinburgh or elsewhere is daft as a very different City Center & Waterfront area and quite compact and easily accessed and 20 is plenty IMO. Well there it is.)

 

I see that Dundee Council have a new £230 Million 10 year transport plan for the future

& it involves more 20 mph limits, bike lane / routes, e-bikes, cargo bikes, EV charging etc etc.

 

SWARCO have an Extension to run Charge Place Scotland and are getting bigged up.

The Love in with Transport Scotland & the Scottish Government / SNP.  

 

The Monopolies Commission or what ever it likes to be called now really need to look into this.

The company that supplied so many chargers / hubs, so equipment, maintenance and won the contract to administer the Charge Place Scotland organisation headquartered in Dundee and run CPS from Dundee with their staff.

 

Damn hopeless where some of the 32 councils are not bothering their back end to keep the chargers there are working properly or expand the network or are now charging more than the commercial companies are.

Thank goodness there are companies investing now and using good chargers and not some of the ones SWARCO,s company e-Volt manufacture.

 

 

 

Edited 2 October, 20232 yr by toot

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/09/30/ev-power-point-shortage-driver-disputes-motorway-services/

 

Very easy to blame someone else. It's amazing how much a bit of foresight and white paint can do. Why does none of the rapid charging hot spots have standarised place to queue like petrol stations? 

 

The key is having enough rapid charging facility to support peak private travel season (eg holidays). Something charge point operator seems to ignore in their metric statistics. low utilisation averaged over 24/7/365 does not mean they've installed enough chargers.

 

Grid connection isn't necessarily an issue, battery buffering can be used. See Teby, after Christmas 22 disaster, they now have 12 stalls with battery support. 

 

Also, for peak season, they could install temporary charging solutions. Lemme find the link on youtube..... 

 

 

This what I have said before, the existing infrastructure is not sufficient for today's use let alone for the future. 

^^^

All part of the Charger Hub owners and companies & Energy Providers kidology that it is Renewables providing the electricity.

All these Fields & Hillsides of Solar Farms and onshore Wind Turbines / Farms that do not actually exist but supposedly are transmitting to these chargers.

*Actually much from a Power Station that burns Wood Pellets brought by ship from the USA but not considered to be dirty energy because the Government say it is not.*

These charger hubs without enough Battery Storage to even hold enough energy from the Off Peak availability overnight.

 

There are Charger Hubs in Scotland with Solar & Battery Storage and even these are only providing a small percentage of what the actual location needs, but it is something but just not anything like enough.

If it was really that simply to provide local generation for local needs then more would. 

There are actually communities doing it and paying their way doing it, but often despite of the Government and the National Grid or the big 6 as they were, not because of them. 

Edited 2 October, 20232 yr by toot

OK, I have been looking into the whole smart meter thingy and the tariffs that can be had, I'm with OVO and for a while today I was unable to get any details on their tariffs, but that has been rectified now, albeit I'm not convinced that its correct as I have downloaded now 17 A4 pages full of tariffs for electricity, most of which seem to be identical🙄, no details as the times that night rates etc are available. But I did find is a so green tariff, heavily lacking in any detail, zero indication of how the standing charges or the kWh costs or if there are off-peak prices etc, zero. They explain that I would get 100% renewable energy. 

 

I just wonder how the hell they can do that when, I'm still connected to the national grid which carries a mix of renewables and fossil fuelled energy. If there is X amount of renewable energy generated, when that is all gone, they have to use top up fossil derived energy. In England, renewable is either solar or wind and there is not enough of that to go round and indeed there are days when there is next to nothing wind or sunshine.

 

So is this just a load of marketing hype or what, oh, and for the benefit of feeling smug in the belief that I'm using green energy, it will cost me £10 a month membership fee, for what?

 

Answers on a postcode please 

54 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

This what I have said before, the existing infrastructure is not sufficient for today's use let alone for the future. 

 

Its fine and improving by the day.  Might be that some of the charge companies go bust as TESLA put them out of business by being so much cheaper.