Ukraine - war ? UK only economic sanctions or military action too ? Is the Ukraine issue simple or complex ?

[EnterName]

On 15/02/2024 at 02:06, @Lee said:

MAGAT's

 

 

 

 

Oh dear! Reminder.

On 11/02/2024 at 16:47, ColinD said:

play nice

 

The Magic Money Trees⁽ᵀᴹ⁾ in Europe and the US have taken quite a shaking lately.

It's entirely appropriate for a politician in the US to tell a UK Lord demanding American taxpayer money be given to Ukraine to KMA, though I'm sure Lord Cameron appreciates the support.

[EnterName]

Reminder: Not all of Putin's explanation for moving into Ukraine is without foundation.

https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1758449635515941028

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/newly-declassified-documents-gorbachev-told-nato-wouldnt-23629

 

 

[@Lee]

That's Alexei Navalny unalived then a week after Carlson's pathetic 'interview' with Putler. 
A fake democracy.
“We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying. In our country, the lie has become not just moral category, but the pillar industry of this country.”

[lol-lol]

51 minutes ago, EnterName said:

Reminder: Not all of Putin's explanation for moving into Ukraine is without foundation.

https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1758449635515941028

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/newly-declassified-documents-gorbachev-told-nato-wouldnt-23629

 

 

 

As I understood it one key reason Russia attacked was the existence, history, actions and insignia of the Ukrainian Azov battalion.   

The wikipedia entry is interesting in its contents....  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade

The Azov insignia resembles the Nazi one....

There is also a wikipedia page on the Russian disinformation... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Allegations_of_Nazism

The Azov Assault Brigade (Ukrainian: Штурмова бригада «Азов», romanized: Shturmova bryhada "Azov") is a formation of the National Guard of Ukraine formerly based in Mariupol, in the coastal region of the Sea of Azov, from which it derives its name.^[9] It was founded in May 2014 as the Azov Battalion^[a] (Ukrainian: батальйон «Азов», romanized: Batalion "Azov"), a self-funded volunteer militia under the command of Andriy Biletsky, to fight Russian-backed forces in the Donbas War. It was formally incorporated into the National Guard on 11 November 2014,^[11][12] and redesignated Special Operations Detachment "Azov",^[b] also known as the Azov Regiment.^[c] In February 2023, the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs announced that Azov was to be expanded as a brigade of the new Offensive Guard.^[13][14]

The unit has drawn controversy over its early and allegedly continuing association with far-right groups and neo-Nazi ideology,^[15] its use of controversial symbols linked to Nazism, and early allegations that members of the unit participated in human rights violations.^[16][17][18] 

 

The truth, on both sides perhaps, is the first victim of war.  Aeschylus. 

[skomaz]

53 minutes ago, @Lee said:

That's Alexei Navalny unalived then

 

So it would seem - TBH I'm surprised he lasted this long with Putin and Russia's apparent penchant for 'removing' the opposition or those who dare to speak out against them.

[EnterName]

3 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

So it would seem - TBH I'm surprised he lasted this long with Putin and Russia's apparent penchant for 'removing' the opposition or those who dare to speak out against them.

I think it's just what happens to dissenters over there in both Russia and Ukraine.

 

[@Lee]

6 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

So it would seem - TBH I'm surprised he lasted this long with Putin and Russia's apparent penchant for 'removing' the opposition or those who dare to speak out against them.

 

IDK if hundreds signatures have been found erroneous thus barring him yet but it's a foregone conclusion who'll win the next election.  

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/antiwar-russian-presidential-candidate-submitted-thousands-of-signatures-in-his-support/

 

[skomaz]

1 hour ago, @Lee said:

 

IDK if hundreds signatures have been found erroneous thus barring him yet but it's a foregone conclusion who'll win the next election.  

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/antiwar-russian-presidential-candidate-submitted-thousands-of-signatures-in-his-support/

 

He's also a Kremlin critic.  I predict now that he'll also die in strange circumstances sometime in the next year or so...

[@Lee]

8 hours ago, EnterName said:

I think it's just what happens to dissenters over there in both Russia and Ukraine.

 

Woman hating spreader of pro Russian disinformation dies in Ukrainian jail shocker. 

What did he expect? Top notch medical care in a country that's at war with a country he supports?

You don't half pick some wrong uns 😂

 

Edited 17 February by @Lee

[EnterName]

5 hours ago, @Lee said:

Woman hating spreader of pro Russian disinformation dies in Ukrainian jail shocker. 

What did he expect? Top notch medical care in a country that's at war with a country he supports?

You don't half pick some wrong uns 😂

And that was what you posted AFTER editing?

This is the state of the average "social justice" warrior in 2024, a gleeful acceptance of political dissidents being killed in prison.

But remember folks, EnterName's the bad guy on here.

Lee and his little clique are on the "right" side of history.

[@Lee]

5 hours ago, EnterName said:

And that was what you posted AFTER editing?

This is the state of the average "social justice" warrior in 2024, a gleeful acceptance of political dissidents being killed in prison.

But remember folks, EnterName's the bad guy on here.

Lee and his little clique are on the "right" side of history.

 

"I think it's just what happens to dissenters over there in both Russia and Ukraine."

I have a 'clique' 

Wow  

[Ootohere]

A cabal even. 

 

It is a sad sad world right now, time maybe for a bit of light relief on this Social media forum. 

I doubt a single post or thread on here regarding politics, religion or sports has even made the slightest difference to matters. 

[Warrior193]

On 16/02/2024 at 12:56, skomaz said:

 

So it would seem - TBH I'm surprised he lasted this long with Putin and Russia's apparent penchant for 'removing' the opposition or those who dare to speak out against them.

Apparently cause of death has been stated by Russian authorities as 'sudden death syndrome' There seems to be a high incidence of that for critics of Putin. 

Edited 17 February by Warrior193
correction

[EnterName]

13 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

Apparently cause of death has been stated by Russian authorities as 'sudden death syndrome' There seems to be a high incidence of that for critics of Putin. 

Remind me how Jeffrey Epstein died?

[EnterName]

18 hours ago, @Lee said:

"I think it's just what happens to dissenters over there in both Russia and Ukraine."

Yes.

 

18 hours ago, @Lee said:

I have a 'clique' 

Yes.

[@Lee]

On 17/02/2024 at 18:17, Warrior193 said:

Apparently cause of death has been stated by Russian authorities as 'sudden death syndrome' There seems to be a high incidence of that for critics of Putin. 

The Russians won't even release his body for his wife to bury him and begin mourning his death. There's rumours, and I stress, rumours, that an agent of some kind was used to kill him. Something the KGB and then the FSB has a documented history of.

(Sergei and Yulia Skripal, Litvinenko as far back and probably further even to using an umbrella to poison Georgi Markov in the late 70s).

I heard a woman on the radio today, didn't get her name, say that Russians don't value human life in the way we do and I found myself agreeing with that statement. It's certainly true of those in power I think. 

 

Edit @Warrior193 the rest is meant for the wider forum and not you in particular 👍

 

I wonder if Putin has something planned for Saturday? I hope not. 

 

There was a piece on Channel 4 News tonight about the sanctions on Russia and specifically the oil. Apparently Russian oil makes up some 20% of the global supply with the majority of it going to China and India but it's the way it's getting there that's concerning. It's pumped onto Russian flagged tankers in Russian ports which are in turn transferring it to awaiting tankers at sea from China and India. 'Dark ships' I think the term was. These tankers, it was reported, even turn off their transponders so they're not as easily identified. 

 

FCK PTN 

 

Edit. The current nutjob right wing conspiracy theorist theory (you know who they are - MAGATs and Faragists) are of the opinion that somehow Navalney's death (probable assassination) was conducted by the CIA who somehow launched an operation to kill him inside the Arctic circle in a Siberian jail guarded by Russian security. It's quite the story though I doubt even Tom Clancy would have thought of that plotline

Trump, Musk and Farage are yet to condemn his murder and Trump's Truth Social media platform is awash with deranged MAGATs led by trump himself in his Capslock rantings. 

 

Oh, and I mentioned Farage. Yeah, he's off on another all expenses paid trip to support tRump at CPAC. No doubt paid for by the absolute mugs who donated to his grift AKA the Reform Party Ltd.

 

He's not a narcissist is he?

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/111959094480823995

 

 

Edited 20 February by @Lee

[@Lee]

Sometimes there's an element of truth in satire. 

I don't know if this is one of those times but Russia has form. 

If you're on Twitter which Elmo insists is called X then this account has been a good follow in many ways. 

 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

The UK Royal Navy can not even successfully fire blanks.   Again Trident goes off course.   At least 2 useless Government ministers were on board to be able to observe how the UK pi$$ billions up a wall and gift it to the USA for the Nuclear Deterrent.    As a super power in an arms race the UK should not even leave the port.  As to an influencer they fail at every attempt. 

 

The UK would be grateful if anyone planning to invade it would refrain from doing it for another few decades while the Armed Forces are increased and conscripts can be trained and made a little more aggressive and protective of their fellow UK citixens.

Also while the equipment is made suitable for purpose and the government is not in the pocket of the Middle East and the USA.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68355395

 

Do not expect Conservative and Unionist Elected Members or non Elected Peers to be able to comment on Security matters.

They will not know the details or be able to divulge anything.  Like just how much cash money the UK has gets conned out of. 

 

Edited 21 February by Rooted

[EnterName]

On 17/02/2024 at 12:38, Rooted said:

I doubt a single post or thread on here regarding politics, religion or sports has even made the slightest difference to matters. 

I agree, and that thought is a great source of comfort in these dark times.

[Ootohere]

But still social media.  Nice to talk.   Even if just drivel.

[EnterName]

On 19/02/2024 at 23:54, @Lee said:

The current nutjob right wing conspiracy theorist theory (you know who they are - MAGATs and Faragists) are of the opinion that somehow Navalney's death (probable assassination) was conducted by the CIA who somehow launched an operation to kill him inside the Arctic circle in a Siberian jail guarded by Russian security.

I don't know how, Navalney died, and nor do you, as your careful disclaimer shows.

Edit: Incidentally, I have no idea where Lee's alleged conspiracy theory came from. Has anyone seen it posted online, other than by Lee on Briskoda?

 

On 19/02/2024 at 23:54, @Lee said:

There's rumours, and I stress, rumours, that an agent of some kind was used to kill him. Something the KGB and then the FSB has a documented history of.

(Sergei and Yulia Skripal, Litvinenko as far back and probably further even to using an umbrella to poison Georgi Markov in the late 70s).

 

If the President of the USA asked the head of the CIA "What would you say you do here?", the official narrative is that the head of the CIA would tell the President that the CIA "collects, evaluates, and disseminates vital information on economic, military, political, scientific, and other developments abroad to safeguard national security. "

https://www.usa.gov/agencies/central-intelligence-agency

 

If anyone genuinely believes that answer is the full scope of CIA activities, then that would add context to a lot of the disagreement on this forum.

As a thought exercise for such an individual: Do you also believe that Russia has the ability to kill dissidents around the world by nefarious means, but America does not?

Or do you believe that America has a similar (or more sophisticated) capability, but chooses not use it?

 

I realise asking awkward questions that expose internal contradictions can be triggering for some people, but I think it's a risk worth taking.

Edited 21 February by EnterName

[EnterName]

20 minutes ago, Rooted said:

But still social media.  Nice to talk.   Even if just drivel.

For millions of years mankind lived just like the animals.

Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination.

We learned to talk. We learned to listen.

Speech has allowed a communication of ideas, enabling human beings to work together to build the impossible.

Mankind's greatest achievements have come about by talking.

And its greatest failures by not talking.

It doesn't have to be like this.

Our greatest hopes could become reality in the future.

With the technology at our disposal, the possibilities are unbounded.

All we need to do, is make sure we keep talking.

Wise words to live by.

 

 

[Ootohere]

Elon Musk. 

 Now attempts to be the censor. 

The Politicians in the UK think they can put a ban on young or very young people using Smart Phones.

 

The genie is out of the bottle.     World wide web, social media has messed it up for those that thought they could rule the world, especially Press Barons and the people Press Barons backed. 

 

If Stephen Hawkins was still alive he could maybe tell us and the world about him and Jeffrey Epstein. 

The truth the whole truth and that everything was legal and nothing that should not be public went on.

 

Surely he has stuff like that recorded or written down so it can be seen by all from the grave.  Just like Jeffrey Epstein might have documented his daily life. 

Edited 21 February by Rooted

[lol-lol]

2 hours ago, EnterName said:

I don't know how, Navalney died, and nor do you, as your careful disclaimer shows.

Edit: Incidentally, I have no idea where Lee's alleged conspiracy theory came from. Has anyone seen it posted online, other than by Lee on Briskoda?

 

 

If the President of the USA asked the head of the CIA "What would you say you do here?", the official narrative is that the head of the CIA would tell the President that the CIA "collects, evaluates, and disseminates vital information on economic, military, political, scientific, and other developments abroad to safeguard national security. "

https://www.usa.gov/agencies/central-intelligence-agency

 

If anyone genuinely believes that answer is the full scope of CIA activities, then that would add context to a lot of the disagreement on this forum.

As a thought exercise for such an individual: Do you also believe that Russia has the ability to kill dissidents around the world by nefarious means, but America does not?

Or do you believe that America has a similar (or more sophisticated) capability, but chooses not use it?

 

I realise asking awkward questions that expose internal contradictions can be triggering for some people, but I think it's a risk worth taking.

 

Steven Seagal has been a long term critic of the CIA.

 

He has now become a Russian citizen presumably to distance himself from US actions and align himself with Russia.

 

 

Edited 21 February by lol-lol

[Ootohere]

The Donald when President might have asked for many people to be assassinated or taken out.

He might even have done the same in his earlier life when in business with other Don,s. 

 

 

Putin has sent a message out to anyone in the Russian Military not to be defect over to the other side. 

I hope Maxim Kuzminov had a good time and spent his money while he could. 

 

 

Edited 21 February by Rooted