Ukraine - war ? UK only economic sanctions or military action too ? Is the Ukraine issue simple or complex ?

[lol-lol]

Hundreds of thousands of troops around the Ukraine/Russian borders, US sending a hundred tonnes of high tech weaponry.

 

Ukraine worried about losing it natural gas transport contracts as Nordstream 2 is close to coming on line.  Germany said it will definitely not send supporting troops, Ukrainian ambassador to UK seems to accuse Germany of self interest.   Also interesting, like many of the ex-Soviet states they have sizable Russian speaking, first, second, third etc generation Russian immigrants about one third of Ukrainians speak Russian as their main language rather than Ukrainian.

 

Hmm, quite a mess, particularly with this new 10 Billion Euro project, funded by Gazprom, Shell and others (presumably pension fund invested in it therefore).

 

What to do ? 

 

 

  

 

[@Lee]

Don't panic, the mighty Liz Truss has warned Putin h'd be making a 'massive strategic mistake' if he invaded.

I sleep more comfortably knowing he'll listen to her. 

[lol-lol]

21 minutes ago, @Lee said:

Don't panic, the mighty Liz Truss has warned Putin h'd be making a 'massive strategic mistake' if he invaded.

I sleep more comfortably knowing he'll listen to her. 

 

UK's Ukrainian Ambassador got well stuck in to Germany about its lack of support to current Ukraine leaders quoting German's actions in the First and Second World wars 105 and 76 years ago.  Not mentioning the 14th SS Division of Galicia/Ukrainian troops who fought with the Nazis.

Never been straight forward in that part of the world with borders moving every few years.   

Let us hope it can all be resolved peacefully but we, Europe and Germany could really do with that cheap natural gas via the new pipeline.

 

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Oh I am anti-BREXIT, ahh now I am pro BREXIT (because it suits my political ambition).  

 

[cheezemonkhai]

On 23/01/2022 at 11:48, lol-lol said:

 

UK's Ukrainian Ambassador got well stuck in to Germany about its lack of support to current Ukraine leaders quoting German's actions in the First and Second World wars 105 and 76 years ago.  Not mentioning the 14th SS Division of Galicia/Ukrainian troops who fought with the Nazis.

Never been straight forward in that part of the world with borders moving every few years.   

Let us hope it can all be resolved peacefully but we, Europe and Germany could really do with that cheap natural gas via the new pipeline.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh I am anti-BREXIT, ahh now I am pro BREXIT (because it suits my political ambition).  

 

 

 

As it's not a brexit thread, I think that line of questioning and similar ones can be left out of this thread.

[lol-lol]

6 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

 

As it's not a brexit thread, I think that line of questioning and similar ones can be left out of this thread.

 

Just saying she is a flip flopper of the biggest type.  

Also trying to bury the UK past of colonialism and pollution whilst expecting developing countries to help clean up the UK's two centuries of CO2 production but expecting those countries to adhere to tight CO2 production limiting their economic growth. Does not go down well amongst dozens of countries.  

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/foreign-secretary-liz-truss-building-the-network-of-liberty

 

[cheezemonkhai]

That wasn’t a question or comment. 
This thread is not a Brexit thread and if it turns into one, it will be locked.

Edited 25 January, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[PetrolDave]

The Russians won't 'invade' Ukraine, they'll wait until they are 'invited in' (by a puppet government) 😗

[Ootohere]

No matter what happens in the Ukraine the UK will have no influence on it other than Liz Truss MP visiting next week to entertain the troops or something like that.

She will while there be wanting this months payment for the out of date Anti Tank Weapons and PPE that they got on sale or return at good nil interest rate.

Cash only no cheques or bank transfers.   

Edited 25 January, 2022 by roottoot

[lol-lol]

Energy experts at Goldman Sach reckon blackouts could be reality with the gas shortage/cost.........

 

https://londonlovesbusiness.com/europe-warned-electricity-blackouts-are-likely-within-months-should-the-average-temperatures-fall/

 

Analysts at investment bank Goldman Sachs have warned that Europe could be struck with “electricity blackouts” within months should the average temperatures fall.  Europe has more than enough gas stored to get through the winter months, however should the seasonal temperatures fall this would lead to more gas being used which could see storage fall beyond the record lows in 2018.   The bank’s analysts warned, that should this happen then “electricity blackouts (are) likely.”   Goldman said, “The impact of natural gas prices on the economy is broader than most people realise.  “This is not only because it is the most important commodity for winter heating or because large industrial sectors, such as chemicals, glass metals smelting and cement rely heavily on gas for manufacturing.

[Ootohere]

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60123328

UK Military might go to protect allies from NATO.  NATO Allies will go to protect Allies.    

They are not going to protect the Ukraine, they are just going to protect the borders of counties bordering the Ukraine.

 

Sanctions like Putin has never experienced will have him quaking in his boots.

 

 

 

[@Lee]

Is anyone surprised? 

 

Quote

As Boris Johnson prepares to speak with Russian President Vladimir Putin in an effort to cool tensions over Ukraine, one of Russia's top diplomats says he doesn't trust British diplomacy.

Russia's Deputy UN Ambassador, Dmitry Polyanskiy, told Sky News: "There is always room for diplomacy, but frankly, we don't trust British diplomacy. I think in recent years British diplomacy has shown that it is absolutely worthless.

"I really don't want to offend anybody, especially my good friends, British diplomats, but really, the results are nothing to boast about."

https://news.sky.com/story/senior-russian-diplomat-we-dont-trust-british-diplomacy-its-worthless-12530767?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

[Ootohere]

Viktor Orban will be re-elected soon in Hungary and Putin will ensure that.

Hungary will not be short on energy from Russian who have funded the new Nuclear generation in Hungary and control the Gas into Hungary.

Germany will still have Car Factories in Hungary because there is plenty energy and cheap workers and Germany will use Hungary when there re sanctions against Russia that they want to break.

 

The UK really is not a close friend of Hungary or Viktor Orban and are going to get nothing without paying lots of money without lots of result.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 February, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

Quote

WASHINGTON/MOSCOW, Feb 2 (Reuters) - The United States will send nearly 3,000 extra troops to Poland and Romania to reinforce Eastern European NATO allies in the face of what Washington describes as a Russian threat to invade Ukraine, U.S. officials said on Wednesday.

Russia, for its part, signalled it was in no mood for compromise by mocking Britain, calling Prime Minister Boris Johnson "utterly confused" and ridiculing what it said was the "stupidity and ignorance" of British politicians.

<                                                                      >

Russia's Foreign Ministry mocked Johnson's foreign secretary, Liz Truss, for saying Britain was sending supplies to its "Baltic allies across the Black Sea" - two bodies of water that are on opposite sides of Europe.

"Mrs Truss, your knowledge of history is nothing compared to your knowledge of geography," Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova wrote in a blog post. "If anyone needs saving from anything, it's the world, from the stupidity and ignorance of British politicians."

Well, I can't disagree with the Russians on that score.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-mocks-britains-utterly-confused-johnson-before-putin-talks-2022-02-02/

[@Lee]

Liz Truss is doing a fantastic job in Russia de-escalating the crisis in Ukraine. Lavrov walked off, said talking to her was “like a mute talking to a deaf person”, she's confused the Baltic and Black seas and told Russia they can't defend Sovereign Russian regions causing the Ambassador to intervene. Perhaps not the greates person to make Foreign Secretary. Mind you, Alexander 'Boris' DePfeffel Johnson was kept away from state secrets as he was deemed a security risk when he was FS

 

[Ootohere]

Amazing how the Politicians from the Conservative and Unionist Party are attempting to make it appear the UK is more involved than it really is. 

More British Military will be involved in the Queens Celebration this year around what is left of the Commonwealth than will involved in this conflict when it kicks off. 

Edited 10 February, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

25 minutes ago, roottoot said:

More British Military will be involved in the Queens Celebration this year around what is left of the Commonwealth than will involved in this conflict when it kicks off. 

That's if Charlie hasn't given her the 'rona. No symptoms so far, though.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-prince-charles-tests-positive-covid-19-second-time-2022-02-10/

[Ootohere]

Last time he had it was convenient as he was in Scotland and ready to take the helm if it went wrong down south.

 

I wonder if Harry and William get on the flying suits and head east to defend the free world.

Uncle Andrew could join them to assist with all that experience he gained back in the day. 

[@Lee]

How many refugees would Priti Patel allow into the UK if it kicks off? Or would she waffle on about 'safe routes' and that they're 'economic migrants'?

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Plenty neighbouring countries and ones before the English Channel that are NATO members to give a place of safety. 

 

 

Scotland might well accept Ukrainians as there is quite a lot already that have settled in Scotland over the past decades. The problem is always the UK Government.

I used to enjoy nights out at the Ukrainian Social club in Dundee. 

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

Plenty neighbouring countries and ones before the English Channel that are NATO members to give a place of safety.

Yes but as we know, there's no rule saying refugees/ asylum seekers must stay in them apart from the one certain people make up in their heads 

[WolfyWesty]

I feel like the MAD treaty should start working at some point.

 

Isn't this sort of thing what it exists for? Unless Ukraine is going to be Cuba 2.0, in which case better buy shares/stocks in several companies.

 

/sarcasm

 

 

 

Edited 12 February, 2022 by WolfyWesty

[KenONeill]

11 hours ago, @Lee said:

there's no rule saying refugees/ asylum seekers must stay in them

There is, however, one saying that genuine asylum seekers must apply for, repeat for, asylum in the first "safe state" they reach. So, if, say, you're in Germany and want asylum in the UK, you should apply to the British Embassy in Berlin, not trek through Germany, Belgium and France, and then attempt to enter Englandshire as an illegal economic migrant.

[Ootohere]

It had crossed my mind that there are lots of stories about various leaders talking to Putin but not much about the EU saying stuff.  

Looks less like all for one and one for all excluding the UK.  More like each country for it's self and Germany will try to keep a low profile. Nothing to see here just move on!

https://cepa.org/an-alarm-call-for-the-eu-on-ukrainian-refugees/

 

 

 

 

Edited 12 February, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

There is, however, one saying that genuine asylum seekers must apply for, repeat for, asylum in the first "safe state" they reach. So, if, say, you're in Germany and want asylum in the UK, you should apply to the British Embassy in Berlin, not trek through Germany, Belgium and France, and then attempt to enter Englandshire as an illegal economic migrant.

Quote

WHAT WAS CLAIMED

Under the Geneva Convention refugees should seek refuge in the first safe country they come to.

 

OUR VERDICT

Incorrect. The UN Refugee Convention does not make this requirement of refugees, and UK case law supports this interpretation. Refugees can legitimately make a claim for asylum in the UK after passing through other “safe” countries.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/refugees-claim-asylum-upon-arrival-first-safe-country/

Not forgetting the ending of the Dublin Regulation ending due to brexit...
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9031/

Edited 12 February, 2022 by @Lee

[xman]

54 minutes ago, roottoot said:

It had crossed my mind that there are lots of stories about various leaders talking to Putin but not much about the EU saying stuff.  

 

Ursula has composed a letter to send to Putin. It now has to go through the commission approval process and put to the vote where all members have to agree. Also needs translating into the several languages of the EU.  I believe they hope to have it approved before the end of this year, but may be delayed due to Covid, other pressing business such as the UK punishment program and an extended summer recess which starts next month.