Scout Haldex Differential Noise

[J.R.]

2 hours ago, Dellbert said:

i couldnt get a specifc answer which is one reason im rebuilding    . if you have different ratios and the haldex cuts in at the very least you will ruin  rear diff propshaft  transfer box. if you really must ue the car fit outer cv joints remove diff and propshaft maybe ..

Urban  legend from people that know zilch about the VAG setup, all rear diff ratios are identical to the bevel drive ratio which does not change as it is after the front diff on the drivetrain.

[Dellbert]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Urban  legend from people that know zilch about the VAG setup, all rear diff ratios are identical to the bevel drive ratio which does not change as it is after the front diff on the drivetrain.

 

 so all vw ausi seat and skoda are the same if you can dig that out of vag (i cant and know 2 high up techs) surely you can get the bearing numbers ??

[J.R.]

Your sarcasm is not appreciated.

 

I don't need to ask vag for anything, I  understand how the transmission functions which is more than can be said of those who believe the rear reduction ratio is different for a petrol or diesel engine. 

[Dellbert]

3 hours ago, J.R. said:

Your sarcasm is not appreciated.

 

I don't need to ask vag for anything, I  understand how the transmission functions which is more than can be said of those who believe the rear reduction ratio is different for a petrol or diesel engine. 

Sarcasm is not intended 

But as for understanding the way the system works i take it it works differently  to the other vehicles fitted with the system ?  as i remember rebuiling quite a few land rover freelanders when the rear diff ratio wasnt the same as the front diff normally resulting in severe damage to the transfer boxes  , surely thats why there is a recomendation to change tyres in sets to maintain a constant overall equality of tyre diameter ?  What should the ratio be for an octavia 2015  when i strip mine i will count the teeth and check if they are all the same it makes changing diffs a simple operation  but why the different part numbers ?

[captain uncertain]

 

Well, after all that, my finances now look like refurbing the original DIFF is now the only option so my diesel/petrol query is no longer a factor. I'll just be pushing the refurb people to get it right (and not fob me off with a 'fubar' diagnosis – reading here it suggests the common issues with VAG DIFFs are very fixable). Do appreciate all the advice and info here though, so thank you. I'll be back once the DIFF is sorted to restart my 'why is my Scout surging… fuel injection issues?' thread – see elsewhere in these fora!

 

I will get my car to 100%  ~96%   :0)

[fr1nklyn]

@captain uncertain I haven't taken my car from the local garage yet, but hopefully the diff rebuild is successful 🤞 I'll provide an update when I take the car. I do have 1000km trip next week, so I'm still unsure should I travel with the car if I take it 3-4 days before or not..

 

It's also due for an engine and transmission oil change, but I don't have time for that before the trip 😕 I'm keen to try the Amsoil DCT in the DQ250 instead of the OEM trans oil - those 150 euro are waiting on the shelf in my basement  

[Username_Login]

Hi guyyz  

I think I have same problem but maybe different ? 

I can hear noise but only after 10 or 15 min drive  

I drained haldex coupling and refilled 0.8 litres   

I drained gear oil and refilled only 1liter  

now 2 months later I realised I need 2.8 L  ?  How much of gear oil goes in ? 

Thanks 

[fr1nklyn]

13 hours ago, Username_Login said:

Hi guyyz  

I think I have same problem but maybe different ? 

I can hear noise but only after 10 or 15 min drive  

I drained haldex coupling and refilled 0.8 litres   

I drained gear oil and refilled only 1liter  

now 2 months later I realised I need 2.8 L  ?  How much of gear oil goes in ? 

Thanks 

Hi @Username_Login, please start a new thread as it seems as a different issue.

 

You fill the haldex till some oil starts to drip, put the fill plug and start the engine for 1-2 minutes to prime the pump. Then you remove the plug and add 100-150ml until again oil starts to drip(you can prime the pump with VCDS as well).

 

By gear oil you mean diff oil I guess? Diff requires 1-1.1 liters of oil. Again needs to be filled until oil starts to drip.
 

it’s strange that it happens after 15 mins of drive and not before that. Oil “expands” a little when it reaches operating temp, but it’s really unnoticeable with these amounts.. 

 

Maybe you confused the haldex and diff fill holes because they are next to each other. Not sure..

[Username_Login]

Well Haldex coupling fluid I refilled that's just 0.8L

But I refilled even differential which is gear oil because obviously there are gears and bearings 

I have used 1L but I have feeling that it needs more than 1L

 

[Username_Login]

2 hours ago, fr1nklyn said:

Hi @Username_Login

 

it’s strange that it happens after 15 mins of drive and not before that. Oil “expands” a little when it reaches operating temp, but it’s really unnoticeable with these amounts.. 

 

Maybe you confused the haldex and diff fill holes because they are next to each other. Not sure..

Maybe I exaggerated it is not noticeable at cold start but after while 5 or 10 minutes as you said when hot it is louder 

 

No I didn't mix I used for haldex this below 

 

 

[fr1nklyn]

I've just checked that diff takes 0.9L of 75w90 oil, so it should be enough.

 

Did you try to add more Haldex oil after running the car for 1-2 minutes or priming the pump? If not I would try to do it because as I said, it usually takes additional 100-150ml.

 

Did the noise appear after you changed the oils or later on? You said that 2 months later you realized that maybe you didn't fill the right amount of oils? If the noise appeared after some time, there could be a leak or the oil may not be appropriate.

I would highly recommend you to use OEM oils for the diff and haldex modules. There might be others, but the only alternative Haldex oil I know which is good is the Ravenol AWD-H, but it's not VW approved, only recommended... So if you're not sure, stick with the OEMs.

[Username_Login]

9 minutes ago, fr1nklyn said:

I've just checked that diff takes 0.9L of 75w90 oil, so it should be enough.

 

Did you try to add more Haldex oil after running the car for 1-2 minutes or priming the pump? If not I would try to do it because as I said, it usually takes additional 100-150ml.

 

Did the noise appear after you changed the oils or later on? You said that 2 months later you realized that maybe you didn't fill the right amount of oils? If the noise appeared after some time, there could be a leak or the oil may not be appropriate.

I would highly recommend you to use OEM oils for the diff and haldex modules. There might be others, but the only alternative Haldex oil I know which is good is the Ravenol AWD-H, but it's not VW approved, only recommended... So if you're not sure, stick with the OEMs.

Hi 

The 75w90 oil has 1L bottle and Haldex coupling has 0.8L bottle 

I filled up and went for drive .. I didn't top up after ..

 

Noise was since January so that's why I replaced both about month ago.

Mannol is fine they are Germans too same thing like if you buy Febi or vw ag 

 

But I was recently at garage abd had car on ramp while I was in car and mechanic told me that turn ebs or ebc off so stabilisation and started engine and go 30 mhp and he heard noise from diff and he said it's effed..but couldn't understand why noise in car comes later 

We tested noise on ramp after we had 10 minutes of drive first ..

So we didn't test noise from cold start ..

But in morning I can't hear it much but only after ..

So when I watched videos how they dismantled this differential unit I can see that space in haldex is smaller and in diff is much bigger so I presume that it needs at least 2.5 litres of gear oil ?

What do you think

 

Thanks 

 

[J.R.]

5 hours ago, Username_Login said:

I can see that space in haldex is smaller and in diff is much bigger so I presume that it needs at least 2.5 litres of gear oil ?

What do you think

 

I think your logic is flawed.

[Username_Login]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

 

I think your logic is flawed.

Thanks 

 

[Username_Login]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

 

I think your logic is flawed.

I don't know if u watched videos but you clearly must be bind or have eye sight issue  

Clearly rear diff chamber inside is enormous compare to haldex chamber.. SO I think your knowledge is on point of freeziness

[J.R.]

I am blind in one eye and have sight issues in the other, had catarct surgery at the end of march followed by retinal inflammation, no sooner had that been treated then I was struck with Orbital Cellulitus and in intensive care for a week with 3 days of total blindness.

 

So in that regard I admire your deduction skills!

 

The volume containing the component bears no relation to the amount of lubricant it will require.

 

The Haldex system is a hydraulic pump operating an actuator to clamp up or release a multi-disc clutch, the fluid has to also act as a lubricant and coolant for the heat generated in partial slip conditions, 95% of the driving cycle.

 

The differential is very compared to any standard differential as its reduction ratio is one third of that of a normal FWD or RWD vehicle, it also does a lot less work as it only transmits a fraction of the vehicles tractive force for a small percentage of the time, it works by splash lubrication and only requires the oil level to be above the bottom of the crown wheel which is significantly smaller in diameter to a standard differential.

 

Using your logic the volume of the engine exposed to the oil system, the crankcase and cylinder head volume etc being  larger than the volume of the cooling system means an engine should have a larger quantity of oil in litres than it does of coolant.

 

Comparing Haldex fluid to hypoid gear oil is like comparing engine oil to coolant.

 

I presume when you "fill up" with oil after an oil change you stop filling when the oil reaches the correct level on the dipstick or do you keep filling till it comes out of the filler cap like my buddy from my youth did with his first car?

 

You have already been advised that the refill volume for your rear axle differential is 0.9 litres, if your logic will not accept that then try putting the volume in that you believe is correct,  VAG will have put the filler plug at the right level to make that a challenge for you.

[Username_Login]

23 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I am blind in one eye and have sight issues in the other, had catarct surgery at the end of march followed by retinal inflammation, no sooner had that been treated then I was struck with Orbital Cellulitus and in intensive care for a week with 3 days of total blindness.

 

So in that regard I admire your deduction skills!

 

The volume containing the component bears no relation to the amount of lubricant it will require.

 

The Haldex system is a hydraulic pump operating an actuator to clamp up or release a multi-disc clutch, the fluid has to also act as a lubricant and coolant for the heat generated in partial slip conditions, 95% of the driving cycle.

 

The differential is very compared to any standard differential as its reduction ratio is one third of that of a normal FWD or RWD vehicle, it also does a lot less work as it only transmits a fraction of the vehicles tractive force for a small percentage of the time, it works by splash lubrication and only requires the oil level to be above the bottom of the crown wheel which is significantly smaller in diameter to a standard differential.

 

Using your logic the volume of the engine exposed to the oil system, the crankcase and cylinder head volume etc being  larger than the volume of the cooling system means an engine should have a larger quantity of oil in litres than it does of coolant.

 

Comparing Haldex fluid to hypoid gear oil is like comparing engine oil to coolant.

 

I presume when you "fill up" with oil after an oil change you stop filling when the oil reaches the correct level on the dipstick or do you keep filling till it comes out of the filler cap like my buddy from my youth did with his first car?

 

You have already been advised that the refill volume for your rear axle differential is 0.9 litres, if your logic will not accept that then try putting the volume in that you believe is correct,  VAG will have put the filler plug at the right level to make that a challenge for you.

NO u again not reading properly   

0.9 litres is for HALDEX  so for rear transmission !  and for rear gear diff when I ordered bottle is 1 litre   here where you mixing things   haldex is not gear differential where all 3 gears are connected. Haldex is where smalll transmission is and engages and disengages prompt shaft.  When I refilled Haldex so 0.8 or 0.9 L it started dripping  but when I refilled rear differential  with 1L bottle  it didn't drip out . And now I googled how much litres goes normally to rear diff  google result showed 3 quarts which is 2.8 L so now I am wondering if I didn't filled up enough .. But again on other google search I got result that into audi A3 or VW golf  goes 1.1L  so now am confused.. 

[Username_Login]

56 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I am blind in one eye and have sight issues in the other, had catarct surgery at the end of march followed by retinal inflammation, no sooner had that been treated then I was struck with Orbital Cellulitus and in intensive care for a week with 3 days of total blindness.

 

So in that regard I admire your deduction skills!

 

The volume containing the component bears no relation to the amount of lubricant it will require.

 

The Haldex system is a hydraulic pump operating an actuator to clamp up or release a multi-disc clutch, the fluid has to also act as a lubricant and coolant for the heat generated in partial slip conditions, 95% of the driving cycle.

 

The differential is very compared to any standard differential as its reduction ratio is one third of that of a normal FWD or RWD vehicle, it also does a lot less work as it only transmits a fraction of the vehicles tractive force for a small percentage of the time, it works by splash lubrication and only requires the oil level to be above the bottom of the crown wheel which is significantly smaller in diameter to a standard differential.

 

Using your logic the volume of the engine exposed to the oil system, the crankcase and cylinder head volume etc being  larger than the volume of the cooling system means an engine should have a larger quantity of oil in litres than it does of coolant.

 

Comparing Haldex fluid to hypoid gear oil is like comparing engine oil to coolant.

 

I presume when you "fill up" with oil after an oil change you stop filling when the oil reaches the correct level on the dipstick or do you keep filling till it comes out of the filler cap like my buddy from my youth did with his first car?

 

You have already been advised that the refill volume for your rear axle differential is 0.9 litres, if your logic will not accept that then try putting the volume in that you believe is correct,  VAG will have put the filler plug at the right level to make that a challenge for you.

So looks like it is 1.1L  so I filled enough ...🤷‍♂️  That means mine bearing in differential is fcked as well and will need replacing 

 

https://www.blauparts.com/blog/how-to-change-audi-rear-differential-fluid-b8.html#:~:text=The factory rear differential fluid,by only using 1 liter.

 

[J.R.]

9 hours ago, fr1nklyn said:

I've just checked that diff takes 0.9L of 75w90 oil, so it should be enough.

 

[J.R.]

12 hours ago, fr1nklyn said:

Diff requires 1-1.1 liters of oil. Again needs to be filled until oil starts to drip.

 

[Username_Login]

32 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

No that's wrong he mixed 75w90 with haldex coupling 

75w90 is not haldex coupling but gear oil. I specifically showed pictures of bottles.

 

33 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Well I said I have ordered 2 more bottles so will be toping up once I receive delivery 

[fr1nklyn]

@J.R. @Username_Login Sorry guys - you're absolutely right - I mixed them: Haldex 0,9L and Diff 1,1L. Where Haldex requires topping up after priming the pump

[J.R.]

0.9l, 1l or 1.1l whatever, its one bottle or a smidgin of another if you want to be obsessive, 2.8 litres it sure aint and the quantity has nothing to do with the volume within the casing.

 

Good luck with squeezing in the additional 2 litres when they arrive!

[Username_Login]

8 minutes ago, J.R. said:

0.9l, 1l or 1.1l whatever, its one bottle or a smidgin of another if you want to be obsessive, 2.8 litres it sure aint and the quantity has nothing to do with the volume within the casing.

 

Good luck with squeezing in the additional 2 litres when they arrive!

No I will not.. I only thought it is 2 od litres but yesterday I googled properly it is 1.1L 

So I will just be filing until start drip simple .. Then I will lift whole car and will run all 4 wheels in air in 2nd gear 

Please don't angry .. First Google result confused me 🤷‍♂️

Looks like that's for SUVs with bigger rear gear units. 

 

But I will be probably replacing the whole unit. I found someone selling for £350 he said he will give me for £300 

Si once swapped I will disassemble mine faulty and will replace the bearing and will sell it to get money back 

[J.R.]

I'm not angry, not even when you said I must be bind (sic) or have eyesight issue.

 

I would be interested in your old unit as is if you don't want to split it and experiment with bearing replacement, setting up the preload will involve shimming or as in the case of the Australian Youtuber reducing the width of the spacer on a surface grinder.

 

I have been rebuilding diffs (mainly Ford) for over 40 years and would do yours to replace mine to avoid downtime just as you are doing.

 

I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy one for £200 that had been sitting unsold on ebay for months but my diff noise has not got any worse in the intervening 30K miles or maybe my hearing has.