Tyres for RS...

[Carlston]

On 25/04/2022 at 00:14, TheWanderer said:

Can someone give me some advice on some decent tyres for my abysmal RS, I've got Michelin PS4s on at the moment and they are absolutely 💩 TBQH. 

 

They're checked for pressure and they are correct, but put the car into any moderate bend and I have to fight it and this has only started to happen since I changed to them.

 

So I want rid, which is really annoying as they've only done about 3½-4k miles. It's so annoying that they are going to be sent to the tyre scrap yard so soon and I've wasted £360 on what are very poor tyres. 

 

Generally I like Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric tyres, Conti's, Hankook aren't bad... Pirelli are also naff, had more than a few of them go pop or had sidewall problems..

 

A 245HP FWD car is not ideal for UK winters. Try a 4x4 next time, as they will put the power down through all four wheels inside of just two.

[TheWanderer]

13 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

A 245HP FWD car is not ideal for UK winters. Try a 4x4 next time, as they will put the power down through all four wheels inside of just two.

 

I don't want a 4x4 thanks. 

 

I can make do with my current car on winter tyre's. Which has proven to be better than a 4x4 on a couple of occasions, dealing with snow and ice with aplomb. 

[Noms]

1 hour ago, roaddetective said:

I buy them from the online site, Blackcircles. They deliver to a garage on their list of your choice and you just turn up and have them fitted there.   

Does it matter that my current tyres are 225's not 235's?

[Ootohere]

@Carlston London and regions are not that well known for outdoor winter sports or much winter weather or adverse road conditions.

Plenty 4x4's around for some reason though.

PS.

Haldex does not actually put power through all 4 wheels if there is ones slipping at the front or rear, it might nip the brakes to try to get drive to tyres. 

Wrong tyres and there is no traction and that is then about getting going, for braking and slowing it really makes little difference.

[roaddetective]

24 minutes ago, Noms said:

Does it matter that my current tyres are 225's not 235's?

When I changed from 225 to 235, Blackcircles delivered them to a garage of my choice in the same town where I live. That garage did refuse to change them, as they were a different size to the ones that were on the car. So I took the tyres to another local tyre fitting place who did change them no problem for a fee of course. I then contacted Blackcircles explaining my problem and they sent the fitting fee which was part of the cost of the tyres back to me. Ever since of course, I now change 235 tyres to 235 again, no problem at any garage.   

[TheWanderer]

Has it made any difference in the handling of the car?

 

More importantly does it affect the speedo? Atm my speedo reads +3 of actual, speed according to a GPS speedo. 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by TheWanderer

[Carlston]

24 minutes ago, roaddetective said:

When I changed from 225 to 235, Blackcircles delivered them to a garage of my choice in the same town where I live. That garage did refuse to change them, as they were a different size to the ones that were on the car. So I took the tyres to another local tyre fitting place who did change them no problem for a fee of course. I then contacted Blackcircles explaining my problem and they sent the fitting fee which was part of the cost of the tyres back to me. Ever since of course, I now change 235 tyres to 235 again, no problem at any garage.   

 

It could be that the tyre fitter that was going to fit the 235/35R19 tyres to your 7.5Jx19 rims checked in his tyre fitter's guide and found that fitting 235/35 tyres to 7.5J rims is technically illegal.

 

As you can see in the chart below, 235/35 needs at least an 8J rim, with an ideal width being 8.5J and hence highlighted in bold.

 

When you already have 235/35 tyres fitted to undersize 7.5J rims, it's unlikely that a tyre fitter would check in his tyre fitter's guide and just assume that was a legal fitment. If you get in an accident you may find that you have no insurance, especially if the accident is caused by the tyre exploding due to the undersize rim being used. With a car that can go 155mph, I'm not sure that I would want to risk it.

 

ETRTO approved tyre and rim fitments

225/35 7.5-8.0-9.0
235/35 8.0-8.5-9.5

 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by Carlston

[Ootohere]

@Carlston  Where do we find 'Technically Illegal'  and compare to 'actually Illegal'  in the UK. 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/503534-erto-approved-rim-widths-for-passenger-car-tyres 

https://www.etrto.org/About-us/ETRTO

 

There are those that will not fit a pair of new tyres only to the front of a FWD or AWD car or even a RWD car because they say 'they would be technically responsible' & this is against advice. 

People go elsewhere and get them fitted.

 

In the UK on the public highway going more than 2 1/2 times the NSL or 2 times & more over the 70 mph limit will be illegal. 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by roottoot

[roaddetective]

46 minutes ago, TheWanderer said:

Has it made any difference in the handling of the car?

 

More importantly does it affect the speedo? Atm my speedo reads +3 of actual, speed according to a GPS speedo. 

Being wider with a bit more rubber on the road, it should increase grip. It also helps protect the side of the wheels more from pothole damage, or even kerbs if you are not too careful. As for speedo error, would have thought it would not be affected as it's width I have increased, not height of tyre. So the distance per revolution should be the same. 

[TheWanderer]

Thanks for that. Something else to consider.

[roaddetective]

42 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

It could be that the tyre fitter that was going to fit the 235/35R19 tyres to your 7.5Jx19 rims checked in his tyre fitter's guide and found that fitting 235/35 tyres to 7.5J rims is technically illegal.

 

As you can see in the chart below, 235/35 needs at least an 8J rim, with an ideal width being 8.5J and hence highlighted in bold.

 

When you already have 235/35 tyres fitted to undersize 7.5J rims, it's unlikely that a tyre fitter would check in his tyre fitter's guide and just assume that was a legal fitment. If you get in an accident you may find that you have no insurance, especially if the accident is caused by the tyre exploding due to the undersize rim being used. With a car that can go 155mph, I'm not sure that I would want to risk it.

 

ETRTO approved tyre and rim fitments

225/35 7.5-8.0-9.0
235/35 8.0-8.5-9.5

 

I look on it as, is it safe, against technically illegal. Informed my insurance company anyway, along with every other mod done to the car. I am more than confident there will be no blow out. 

[Breezy_Pete]

20 minutes ago, roaddetective said:

As for speedo error, would have thought it would not be affected as it's width I have increased, not height of tyre.

If profile is same on both at 35, then you've increased both height and width.

235/35-R19 vs 225/35-R19 Tire Comparison - Tire Size Calculator | Tacoma World

Only about 1.1% diff on speedo though, allegedly

[roaddetective]

6 minutes ago, Pete_Ex-Wino said:

If profile is same on both at 35, then you've increased both height and width.

235/35-R19 vs 225/35-R19 Tire Comparison - Tire Size Calculator | Tacoma World

Only about 1.1% diff on speedo though, allegedly

I can live with that. 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

I put old and new the wrong way round at the start of that calc, by the way, so readings +/- are all opposite what they should be.  Speedo will read closer to reality than when fresh out of the factory, rather than further from reality.

[roaddetective]

8 minutes ago, Pete_Ex-Wino said:

I put old and new the wrong way round at the start of that calc, by the way, so readings +/- are all opposite what they should be.  Speedo will read closer to reality than when fresh out of the factory, rather than further from reality.

Reality at the moment in this country, if not the world, is awful, so who needs reality anyway Pete. lol. 

[Ootohere]

The UK maybe needs to discuss with the EU Commissioners the crap OEM / ECO Tyres that EU Car Manufacturers fit to vehicles capable of 155 mph.

Good for WLTP / RDE2 results maybe but even at UK NSL's pretty damn crap even if there is no rain, cold, ice or snow. 

The UK could maybe specify that UK manufacturers or those importing cars fit a better quality of tyre.  That does not mean more expensive, just tested differently and to a higher standard of grip. 

Having the correct Speed & Load ratings obviously mean that Technically they are legal even if total crap ditch finders from the biggest named European & World Wide manufacturers. 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by roottoot

[roaddetective]

13 minutes ago, roottoot said:

The UK maybe needs to discuss with the EU Commissioners the crap OEM / ECO Tyres that EU Car Manufacturers fit to vehicles capable of 155 mph.

Good for WLTP / RDE2 results maybe but even at UK NSL's pretty damn crap even if there is no rain, cold, ice or snow. 

The UK could maybe specify that UK manufacturers or those importing cars fit a better quality of tyre.  That does not mean more expensive, just tested differently and to a higher standard of grip. 

Having the correct Speed & Load ratings obviously mean that Technically they are legal even if total crap ditch finders from the biggest named European & World Wide manufacturers. 

Oh I remember ditch finders. Bought a car years ago with Pirelli P6000 tyres all round. Flaming hell, those tyres tried to kill me in the wet. Took them off when they still had 6mm of tread on and bought some with grip. As you said, they were technically legal, but lethal!

[Carlston]

1 hour ago, roaddetective said:

I look on it as, is it safe, against technically illegal. Informed my insurance company anyway, along with every other mod done to the car. I am more than confident there will be no blow out. 

 

Cars have to meet the construction and use regulations to be legally insured. It will be in the small print. Insurance companies don't insure cars that aren't road legal.

 

If VOSA pulls you over and checks your rim widths you will be for the high jump.

 

I say technically illegal about the rim width because it's doubtful whether there's much enforcement going on. It's not something that is checked during the MOT, and I expect VOSA has other priorities to keep them busy.

 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by Carlston

[Ootohere]

I expect they have since they changed their name.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/vehicle-and-operator-services-agency

 

PS.

@Carlston   Small print is very very important.  & declaring mods. 

Insurers might actually insure cars that turn out to be illegal and not pay out to the policy holder, they will to 3rd Parties though. 

 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by roottoot

[PetrolDave]

1 hour ago, roaddetective said:

Oh I remember ditch finders. Bought a car years ago with Pirelli P6000 tyres all round. Flaming hell, those tyres tried to kill me in the wet. Took them off when they still had 6mm of tread on and bought some with grip. As you said, they were technically legal, but lethal!

That's how my 2007 RS4 felt with the factory fit Pirelli PZero  Rosso tyres 🙄

[Carlston]

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

Small print is very very important and declaring mods. 

Insurers might actually insure cars that turn out to be illegal and not pay out to the policy holder, they will to 3rd Parties though.

 

Only declarable mods need to be declared.

 

In many cases, the owner won't know if the car has been modified.

 

If your local garage fits new aftermarket springs and shock absorbers, who knows whether they are identical to the originals. Probably not, as aftermarket springs and shock absorbers are usually sold to replace a whole shed load of different models, ie. a one size fits all approach.

 

When you buy a secondhand car, you often won't know the history of it. Maybe the engine had a warped cylinder head, and the local garage skimmed it so that it was no longer warped. Due to the skimming, your engine now has a higher compression ratio than standard.

 

The fact is, insurance is ultimately governed by the UK courts, and I think you will find that it's significant mods that need to be declared, not all mods.

 

Even the manufacturer often sell modified parts after they have manufactured the car. I know of a car where the cup holder kept falling out. So the manufacturer modified the cup holder so that it didn't fall out. Are all these car owners now driving modified cars, and should they all declare this modified cup holder that no longer falls out? I doubt it.

 

I think it would be better if the driver was insured and not the car. After all, it's usually the driver that causes accidents not the car. Then the insurance company could ask the driver whether he has been modified. If he has had a new bionic eye fitted to improve his eyesight, his insurance premiums would double.

 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by Carlston

[Ootohere]

@CarlstonExactly. Nail on the head. 

Are you in the UK? 

 

No point asking drivers if a car is modified if they are just buying a car as you say or driving someone else's etc. so will not know if as it left the production line.

Loss adjusters are good at checking social media, Asking claimants if they can check their Credit or Bank accounts if they suspect a vehicle was modified by them. They are looking for a purchase.

The claimant will be asked to sign a claim and that might ask if they modified the vehicle.

There have been members here that made a claim and then withdrew it after being made aware of what it means if making a fraudulent claim.

 

When deciding what is or is not declarable many will ask the people on the end of the line that answer phones.

Sometimes you have to ask them to ask someone that knows their arse from there elbow and the difference from a roll cage to an anti roll bar. 

Or ask the Underwriter.

https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2020/10/how-popular-modifications-affect-your-car-insurance.html

 

UK Insurance typically covers the vehicle, it in 2 parts, the 3rd party cover,  as a minimum,  then the Fire & theft or fully comprehensive.

it is the vehicle that is insured, group, fleet etc and then the driver or drivers of the vehicle according to the type of cover.     

You have named drivers or permitted drivers etc. 

Edited 27 April, 2022 by roottoot

[TheWanderer]

Found these

https://www.autopartuk.com/tyre-calculator

 

https://tire-calc.com/

 

Is 1mph with the tolerance of speed cameras and speed guns?

Edited 28 April, 2022 by TheWanderer

[Ootohere]

On the OEM sized tyres brand new and at ECO tyre pressure your speedo is over reading.  At 60 mph driving to a roadside Speed sign you are probably at 58 mph.   With the Speedo at 70 mph maybe 67 mph on the digital sign.     There is the supposed 10% plus 2 mph allowance in England and Wales with Police Chief Constable advice on speeding offences and prosecution.  Do not rely on that, especially not in Scotland.  

[PetrolDave]

17 minutes ago, roottoot said:

There is the supposed 10% plus 2 mph allowance in England and Wales with Police Chief Constable advice on speeding offences and prosecution.  Do not rely on that, especially not in Scotland.  

The 10% plus 2 mph is at the discretion of individual Chief Constables, some forces have hinted that they might be applying 5% plus 1 mph.