Oh well, you're much further ahead of me, loose battery post clamp just an oversight (hopefully not ignoring the very basics or not RtFM as is the won't of many electricians I've met).

 

For latter cars the VCDS looks horrible presentation to me but suits other people, other scanners might give better presentation and easier to scroll through other readings and make comparisons but that's another conversation and not relevant now.

 

I have a security device, it's a choke pull cable.

 

Leave it with you and hope to see your write up of how it was sorted soon.

8 minutes ago, nta16 said:

For latter cars the VCDS looks horrible presentation to me but suits other people, other scanners might give better presentation and easier to scroll through other readings and make comparisons but that's another conversation and not relevant now.

 

Us technical types don't really care about aesthetics if a tool works well and VCDS works better than almost anything else for VAG vehicles.

 

You creative types worry too much about fonts and layouts and frilly knickers and stuff...

Just now, sepulchrave said:

You creative types worry too much about fonts and layouts and frilly knickers and stuff...

Not being creative I didn't put that well it's not just about the appearance it's about being able to use the tool without having been trained through the legacy systems and not being overcome with joy to see a slide rule and tables.

 

Different strokes for different folks.  I certainly don't worry too much about underwear as a quick look at my washing line would prove, I wear rags as well as use them on dirty, messy, greasy, oily cars. 

So, an update on my situation, got in my car to drive to work this morning and the battery light stayed on, plugged it in and it came up at alternator. Funnily enough the steering is now somehow lighter and isn’t as aggressive when it gets to the part that worked. It could be that voltage was too low all along, will keep you all updated

6 minutes ago, ScottB832 said:

it came up at alternator

What fault code?

 

I might be oversimplifying the job, but has the usual multiplug on the alternator wiring been checked?

On 14/07/2022 at 09:33, ScottB832 said:

So, an update on my situation, got in my car to drive to work this morning and the battery light stayed on, plugged it in and it came up at alternator. Funnily enough the steering is now somehow lighter and isn’t as aggressive when it gets to the part that worked. It could be that voltage was too low all along, will keep you all updated

Funnily enough, despite having a 'new' battery, my battery light came on earlier then went off 

 

Mt symptoms are very similar to yours now also, but sadly my laptop with VCDS on got crushed by a Marshall valvestate amp and the screen is now busted, so I'll have to wait until I can get a new one to progress further. 

 

Have you made any progress?

The battery light is nothing to do with the battery, it indicates a fault with the alternator. So having a new battery means nothing, you need to fix the alternator or its wiring.

Even a 'new' or new battery can be depleted.

 

I can think of a good number of times I've been told "the battery (or its connections) is good" and they weren't, especially when it's a spare battery or off another vehicle.

 

The hot weather now won't be particularly good for batteries (or charging systems) sewing the seeds of battery replacements this autumn and winter.

 

If a battery or its charging system is weak it makes the other work harder, sometimes wearing it down so the replacement or rectification of one still leaves the other weakened.

 

Sorry for a big message...

 

So I swapped the battery for a known good one (from my old audi) 

 

This has good terminals as opposed to the wrecked old ones.

 

No change but will only be a good thing to have sorted this.

 

I don't know if @ScottB832got any further with his fault finding?

 

I've now found a code in my instruments cluster for the power steering... 01309 after a bit of research its for a lack of communications but also says if it's a fabia 6Y then you need a new rack basically. If all other things check out... 

 

Worth looking into, mines working fine unfortunately.

 

I've also checked the live data on the section that does work vs the rest of the steering and the pump current is the only thing that changes. Almost as if its not being pulled on when requested...

 

Standard is around 3-8A (as in steering wheel stationary)

 

Dead zone stays the same maybe creeping up to around 11A max

 

Working zone spiked up beautifully to 42-50A when moving.... it seems like a sensor related issue, but the ROSS TECH site tells me to throw a rack at it... 

 

It means a pump, not a rack. The rack is just a dumb lump of metal.

So, I’ve got no further, battery light went off before I could double check codes to make sure I was right. Still be looking at everything and can’t work anything out apart from it saying reference voltage too low. Starting to give up hope of ever having power steering again at this point 

10 minutes ago, ScottB832 said:

So, I’ve got no further, battery light went off before I could double check codes to make sure I was right. Still be looking at everything and can’t work anything out apart from it saying reference voltage too low. Starting to give up hope of ever having power steering again at this point 

 

A bad alternator will not necessarily give you codes but it will cripple the PAS, if the battery light comes on with the engine running then there is DEFINITELY a fault with it.

 

I'm not sure what further confirmation you need, the ECU shuts down the PAS when it senses a dropping reference voltage.

 

Replace the alternator with a cheap secondhand one if money's tight.

I strongly suspect our issue lays with this reference voltage too low error

 

Problem is , I have absolutely no idea what to look for or where to look anymore.

1 minute ago, sepulchrave said:

 

A bad alternator will not necessarily give you codes but it will cripple the PAS, if the battery light comes on with the engine running then there is DEFINITELY a fault with it.

 

For me, I found my earth battery terminal was loose and as the lamp illuminated for a second before going out I suspect this to not be the case.

 

I know the voltage is correct from alternator but I don't know what current it should output. I should check this myself. 

 

I'm sure that our cause for the fault is very likely the same. Hopefully its an alternator as you suggest.

It's very simple, the PAS pump uses a massive amount of current, around 60A peak, if the alternator or the battery are not in tip-top condition then the reference voltage will quickly sag under this load and the ECU will shut down the PAS pump to try and keep the engine running properly.

 

I don't care how you fix it, just stop going around in tiny silly circles.

 

Once you have the battery and charging system working perfectly then the next stop is a secondhand pump and that should be the end of any problems.

ScottB832 (Xhuy10nx) it's as the grumpy one's put, check battery, charging system then pump.

 

The computer's rely on info from the sensors, the computers and (some) sensors work on thin voltage so if your battery and changing system are below par the computers and (some) sensors are the first to suffer as they work on such small rations to have then reduced means they can cry out and struggle to work properly.  How do you feel by the end of the working day without two Weetabix for breakfast (sepulchrave of course has four every morning).

 

The 'joy' with a modern car is that not only do you need the electric but also the computer needs to know all and a sensor might be in distress or the computer thinks it is or has a brain-fart of it's own (as if computers or their programs ever play up).  So you need good electric supply going through the wires and connectors and also good communications going through other wires and connectors and the computers and their programs satisfied (if never happy).  I may have strayed from strict explanations and terminology but I hope you get what I mean.

 

Easiest things to check are battery and its charging - you don't need to wait for an error codes and should never just rely on those alone, but if you have them recognise that they are often not the answer, often merely pointing you to where you start your diagnosis.

 

Edited 25 July, 20223 yr by nta16

15 hours ago, Xhuy10nx said:

I know the voltage is correct from alternator but I don't know what current it should output.

 

The current is determined by what loads are on it. If the voltage isn't dipping, it is succeeding in meeting whatever is being demanded from it at any given time.

 

If the voltage at the PAS module remains decent all the time, then the PAS problem isn't power related. VCDS has a measuring block (1st field of MVB01, module 44) for the permanent voltage feed from the strip fuse.  It also tells you about the current drawn by the pump moment by moment, the on/off status, the turn rate sensor reading in another measuring block, etc.  Well worth a look and a log of this and the other measuring blocks of module 44 - steering assist - if you have the necessary cheap kit to use.

 

 

 

 

@Breezy_PeteI have checked the channel 44 on vcds 

 

if you scroll up I posted currents in certain situations

 

I believe its the pump, certainly electrical. I'm on my way home now and will check the alternator and earths etc and see how we get on 

I've got a spare pump somewhere that I acquired some time back. It's an unknown quantity, and I can't remember what part number without looking at it, but you could try it if you want, for elimination purposes. Could drag an angle sensor out of my spare car too if useful.

Have a look (log while driving) at the main permanent feed voltages in measuring block 01, see if the non-working correlates with that being low and the working situations with it being 14V+.

 

37 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

I've got a spare pump somewhere that I acquired some time back. It's an unknown quantity, and I can't remember what part number without looking at it, but you could try it if you want, for elimination purposes.

This would be really handy if you wouldn't mind, I think we aren't hugely apart, I could at least rule it out or prove it right (potentially) 

38 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Could drag an angle sensor out of my spare car too if useful.

 

I removed the sensor to test it a few weeks back as I read somewhere that it would put the PAS into 'emergency mode' and make it work as a way of diagnosing - although that information is questionable... 

 

I'll check the data later when I nip to tesco to get dinner 

Has either yours or @ScottB832's car had a new clutch or other gearbox-off job done recently, BTW?

 

 

I've only recently bought mine so I don't know... I've heard about the dog bone mount bolt but it's lowered and so i can't easily get under it to check

 

It was another thing I was going to rule out before buying parts

Edited 26 July, 20223 yr by Xhuy10nx

You might be able to check with a bit of string...😁

If you can get a piece between rack and subframe, long enough that you can hold both ends from above, then 'floss' it along past the point where the dogbone bolt goes through the subframe.  If it catches or won't pass that point, chances are the wrong bolt is in there and has dented the underside of the rack tube.

 

No idea if that's really feasible in practice, but I know it's almost impossible to see the area from any angle, though probably not too tricky to get a phonecam pic if working underneath the car.

I think you may have just hit the nail on the head. My car is quite low and I had to replace my sump a couple of months ago, and that is the exact time my power steering stopped working. I have a rest day from work tomorrow so I’ll get under it and have a look at the rack. Thank you