Hey guys, wondering about a bit of advice

 

Two weeks ago we ran into a problem with out MkIII Octavia. Mrs K was driving home and found the clutch was very low to the floor. She was able to change gear at the junction but it stalled a couple of times before she was able to pull away and drive home (about 2 miles). She described it as feeling a bit sluggish. The next day we went to move it off the drive and check for leaks but it wouldn't engage gears at all - just crunching. This was just under a month from having had a major service on the car.

 

No leaks obvious. Brake fluid above Max level. No warning lights. A search suggested that the clutch needed bleeding. FIL managed to get the car drivable by pulling the clutch up and pumping it. Spent the week trying to the car back into the service centre, eventually calling on Skoda UK. We only drove it to the Service Centre (3 miles), during which time it seemed ok. 

 

Today we got the diagnosis. The clutch plate is excessively and the flywheel has overheating damage. £2k of work. And that's if the clutch hydraulics are good, which they apparently can't test until the clutch is replaced.

 

This is a 68 plate car, that had done ~15k when we bought it 3 years ago, so we have driven ~5k pa

 

To say that we are livid is an understatement. Any thought's on how the clutch could go so quickly?

I've known people who've worn clutches out even faster, also mostly doing urban driving as you clearly do.

There's a similar story on here somewhere where the OP got an independent auto engineer/inspector involved, who was able to demonstrate that Skoda's diagnosis was nothing better than a guess. When further disassembly/inspection occurred it was shown to be plain wrong, and a faulty from manufacture clutch was shown as the most likely cause.

 

That's all from memory, I'll try to find the thread for you tomorrow if no-one else does first.

They have done a full strip of the clutch which is where the clutch wear has come from. I suppose my question is this:

 

If it was air in the clutch system, say from a fluid change, how quickly could that lead to the sort of clutch damage we now see?

42 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

There's a similar story on here somewhere where the OP got an independent auto engineer/inspector involved, who was able to demonstrate that Skoda's diagnosis was nothing better than a guess. When further disassembly/inspection occurred it was shown to be plain wrong, and a faulty from manufacture clutch was shown as the most likely cause.

 

That's all from memory, I'll try to find the thread for you tomorrow if no-one else does first.

Hi Pete, that sounds like the posting from Bollcat on 27th May last year. His clutch failed at 2700 miles! 1.0TSI manual.

8 minutes ago, DanKell said:

They have done a full strip of the clutch which is where the clutch wear has come from. I suppose my question is this:

 

If it was air in the clutch system, say from a fluid change, how quickly could that lead to the sort of clutch damage we now see?

Hello Dan, air in the clutch system would cause difficulty in de-clutching and selecting gear, but should not cause the clutch plate to slip and fail unless from serious abuse. The plate uses a diaphragm spring to press the plate against the mating surface on the flywheel. 

1 hour ago, DanKell said:

Any thought's on how the clutch could go so quickly?

 

Who are you livid at?

 

You are making the mistake of not assuming that everything they tell you is a lie.

 

Call their bluff and go and inspect the clutch parts which they wont even have removed (another lie) as if they had they would know for sure if the clutch hydraulics had failed, if they had even a modicum of competence they would know by listening to your description and through attempting to drive the vehicle that there is a hydraulic problem.

 

What you have relayed is that they want you to pay £2K for a new clutch and when the problem remains to pay them to remove the gearbox again to fit a slave cylinder which they should replace as a matter of course while doing the clutch and which is the most likely suspect.

 

You do not have a slipping clutch so any wear and overheating that they have dreamed up to justify an expensive repair is totally irrelevant.

 

If they were competent and/or honest they would say we are reasonably sure it will be air being drawn into the concentric slave cylinder, it could be a faulty Sachs pressure plate but that affected earlier vehicles, in both cases we have to remove the transmission to replace the parts and it would be false economy to do so without replacing the clutch (regardless of its wear) dual mass flywheel and slave cylinder, I'm sorry sir but you are looking at a £2K bill. We could however try replacing the master cylinder first which will be a £250 job, it's your choice to gamble on that, if you do and we do subsequently have to replace the clutch then you will have the peace of mind of knowing that every single part has been replaced.

 

I had to bite the bullet and replace the clutch, flywheel and slave cylinder, the OEM parts (Luk) cost €300

 

On inspecting the old clutch I found that it had been abused by the previous owner (it was a fleet car) there were heat marks and the pressure plate had dished meaning it was only pressing on the outside of the friction material, the clutch lining had worn to a tapered shape to match the distortion, as it was all replaced it was neither here nor there but I should point out that it had no bearing on my problem which was the exact same one as yours caused by air being drawn into the O ring joint between the 2 plastic mouldings of the slave cylinder, I was having to bleed the clutch every 5 miles at the end.

Edited 20 October, 20223 yr by J.R.

Plastic slaves are common to just fail on all vehicles. I got 94k out of my old mk6 GTi but heard stories of them going much earlier. This would cause the clutch pedal to probably almost go to the floor but maybe have some kind of engagement/rebound. It juat takes a hairline fracture to lose that pressure. I paid £950 for a clutch pack (clutch plate, pressure plate and slave cylinder) and labour through a specialist independent garage. Flywheel is obviously not cheap but I can't imagine another £1000 on top! 

 

You are in that difficult situation where the car has failed and you can't really drive it. It could have been a faulty clutch from the start, or it could have driven it in a way which put pressure on the clutch (too low revs, pulling away in 2nd all the time, slipping the clutch consistently) 

 

Is this a dealer or independent garage? Ask for a break down in costs to see what the have charged for. If its dealer chances are the costs will be down to labour and not necessarily parts, although these will be higher than getting the parts from elsewhere. Any warranty/Service plan in place you could claim through?

 

I hope you get it sorted for less!

 

Edited 20 October, 20223 yr by Dooge

It’s a delear. We’re talking about £1k parts, then labour and Tax. 
 

thanks Warrior that answers one of my questions. Dooge gives a good option of why it might legitimately have gone. 
 

ive been sent photos which seem to show some wear. I’ve passed those on to someone I know who can confirm whether they look abnormal. 

This is the thread that I was referring to, and that @Warrior193 very kindly helped us find: 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/493951-help-69-plate-10-tsi-se-manual-clutch-gone-after-2721-miles/

 

15 hours ago, DanKell said:

... and the flywheel has overheating damage. £2k of work. And that's if the clutch hydraulics are good, which they apparently can't test until the clutch is replaced.

 

It'll be interesting to know what the overheating 'damage' is in reality.  Signs that it might've got hot at some point, and nothing else, or is it a molten lump in the bottom of the bell housing?

 

As others have said, not being able to test the clutch hydraulics without replacing the clutch is tripe.  Sounds like the money printing machine being fired up to me.

 

Gaz

 

From the photos the "damage" is black marks on the flywheel. Certainly looks like carbon to my untrained eye. However no idea if that is normal for a clutch at 30k miles. 
Certainly not a lump of melted slag.

31 minutes ago, DanKell said:

However no idea if that is normal for a clutch at 30k miles. 

 

And that's the point.  One wonders how many 30k clutches, with normal wear and tear, have black marks on them.  Think you're right to pass it on to someone who can confirm if it's not normal.

 

My local VW highlighted two items of 'Urgent' work that needing doing to our Polo at its last MOT.  Nothing is wrong and nothing needs doing.  Trust them as far as you can throw them 

 

Gaz

Most of you are being drawn into the irrelevant distraction of how or why a clutch may or may not have overheated or how worn it is or isn't, whether its normal or not for 30K miles.

 

It has zero relevance to the breakdown the OP suffered, his clutch was not slipping, I doubt the car has even been on a ramp, the service receptionist is simply trotting out the usual money making story being blissfully ignorant that a worn or "worn out" clutch as they will have put it can have no bearing on the problem with the clutch not disengaging.

 

Any professional effecting the repair would fit a new clutch and DMF as a matter of routine in any case so the OP should concentrate on the real issue, are they a bunch of liars, incompetents or both. He should get down there pronto and insist on seing the car and the alleged worn parts and ask why they consider that they would prevent the clutch from disengaging, also what they mean by their comment that they cannot test the clutch hydraulics until the job is completed.

 

I would have no issue with a garage insisting on replacing the clutch and DMF while replacing the internal concentric slave cylinder, with an independant garage and such a low mileage car maybe I would consider leaving the existing mechanical clutch components if I trusted their judgement, my Octavia did 188K miles before the DMF went and shook the clutch to bits, My Yeti the DMF failed at 79K miles revealed when I had a remap done, in truth it was probably failed many miles before that but the engine never revved enough to realise, on dismantling (for the clutch hydraulic problem) I found the clutch pressure plate bowed, the flywheel scorched and the driven plate worn tapered and down yo the rivets at the outside, I had bought replacements anyway.

 

The OP should not be livid, putting a vehicle into a main dealers for a clutch problem will result in that sort of bill, whether black marks are normal or not is irrelevant, they like any other garage will be replacing the clutch and DMF, his concern should be their competence and integrity.

Edited 21 October, 20223 yr by J.R.

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Most of you are being drawn into the irrelevant distraction of...

 

Don't think any of us 'you's' are trying to be unhelpful John.

 

I'd like to know if the black marks will come off with a bit o'spit, or if it's physical damage from a sudden component failure, or something in between.

 

Their competence and integrity is certainly in question given what's been said so far.

 

Gaz

 

 

Yes I apologise for that, I reflected and should have changed the wording to "some are being drawn.............."

 

But I will repeat the message that the black marks (if the photo is actually of the OP's car) and their origin is neither here nor there as any garage would replace a dual mass flywheel with a clutch regardless of its condition and would replace both even at 30K miles if the box had to come out to replace the slave cylinder, they would not need to justify it.

 

That they are doing so, and in doing so ignoring the actual fault makes me doubly suspicious of their competence and/or integrity.