Dsg box

[Ootohere]

@Black_Thunder

Indeed.  Thousands of DQ200,s.  Millions World Wide were part of the recall 2012 excluding Europe that got a service Campaign 2014 to change the synthetic oil to mineral and a software update.

New MCU's in New Zealand, 100,000 mile / 10 year warranty in the far east,

Then Recall / Service campaign 34H5 in 2017, Software, then 2019 another Recall in Australia covering 2009-2016.

Then issues 2015 on Clutch Upgrades and Software.

 

So we are now not talking Hand Brakes but e-Brakes as this is the Mk4 Octavia section.

There are PHEV's, Mild Hybrids, Petrol's and Diesels and DQ200's , DQ381's & DQ400-e,s and Auto Hold & Stop Start.  No manual parking brakes.

 

As to the foot on brake, good advice, if stopped a while and brake lights annoy those behind, weather conditions etc, use the parking brake.

 

If you go to the Fabia, Kamiq or Scala section you will find members with cars with a DSG & a manual hand brake.

 

Edited 1 April, 2023 by toot

[Black_Thunder]

2 minutes ago, toot said:

There are a lot of these Wet or Dry clutch DSG's out there cooking the oil then.

 

DQ381,s have not yet had the Service Interval reduced yet, and VW are not yet recommending changing the filter, or are they @Black_Thunder? 

Dry clutch DSG have a much slacker hold on the bite point when stationary on the brake.  They also have a gearbox temperature warning on the dash.  And if you ignore the high temp warning, it will turn of the engine.  This has happened to a few customers I know.

 

As for wet clutch DSGs cooking their oil, there are hundreds, possibly thousands of threads on many other forums.  I have changed the oil and filter on many DQ250 boxes.  It is very evident to see from the state of the old fluid who are the drivers who shift into neutral when stationary and who don't.  Not just the colour of the old fluid, but also the amount of particulate matter suspended within the fluid.  And you can also smell when the oil has failed and oxidised due to overheating.

 

As for the filters, the original DSG filters were highly efficient - arguably too efficient.  Because they often got blocked.  VW subsequently changed the design of the filter to be less efficient.  But irrespective of which evolution of filter - there is always sludge at the bottom of the filter housing, and the sludge is primarily friction lining particles from the clutch.  The manufacturers will try to tell you about 'improvements' in filter technology, and other general improvements in build quality!

 

Regarding any 'reducing' of servicing intervals - that is contrary to the ethos of the car manufacturer of minimising maintenance costs.  How many manual boxes or rear axles (NOT Haldex couplings) have a scheduled oil change recommendation?  Yet ask anyone who has changed the oil on a manual transmission about the state of the old fluid.

 

At the end of the day, car manufacturers are just money-making enterprises.  They no longer care about the longevity (or general reliability) of their products.  They would rather shaft the innocent car owner for the extortionate cost of a new DSG (or engine, or indeed any other major component) - rather than explaining the benefits of more frequent oil and filter changes.  Or even better, they prefer you to buy a new car when your previous steed could have had much longer life!

[Ootohere]

Plenty on here and elsewhere will be paying to have their DQ381's or DQ400-e,s serviced properly or not in the coming years. 

We will see come time how well they last with people driving them as they do, or maybe how the Sales /Management or fleet drivers did or any number of other drivers by the time they do get them serviced. 

 

Lots have yet to be made aware at dealerships that if they have a VAQ Diff it requires servicing as well as their DSG.

 

Servicing getting to be more and more expensive when you have a keeper, or buy a used car that is due service items not done.

 

People trust that because there has been Main Dealer Servicing that it was done when it should and how it should be,. That is an error.

People just keep on doing it thoiugh.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/463920-dsg-dq250-making-noise-and-slipping

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 April, 2023 by toot

[TheUltraRunner]

Wouldn't the temperature gauge for the gearbox rise if that would be the case? I have never noticed any extensive temp rises of the gearbox when stationary having it in D.

[PetrolDave]

1 hour ago, TheUltraRunner said:

Wouldn't the temperature gauge for the gearbox rise if that would be the case? I have never noticed any extensive temp rises of the gearbox when stationary having it in D.

Where are you seeing the gearbox temperature gauge?

[Ootohere]

What a drama or crisis over nothing.  RTFM!

 

There is 'Autohold' there is Stop / Start and there is use common sense.  Anyone knows if they are sitting  foot on brake pedal, roasting hot discs, roasting hot weather and boiling the DSG oil or the clutch packs getting tortured. 

 

'Just say no to stupidity'.   Drive and use your Semi-Automatic Dual Clutch gearbox sensibly. 

 

 

[TheUltraRunner]

5 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

Where are you seeing the gearbox temperature gauge?

In the digital cluster. Maybe not the best choice with the wording "gauge". Sorry about that.

[GrumpyOldGit]

On 02/04/2023 at 11:31, toot said:

What a drama or crisis over nothing.  RTFM!

 

There is 'Autohold' there is Stop / Start and there is use common sense.  Anyone knows if they are sitting  foot on brake pedal, roasting hot discs, roasting hot weather and boiling the DSG oil or the clutch packs getting tortured. 

 

'Just say no to stupidity'.   Drive and use your Semi-Automatic Dual Clutch gearbox sensibly. 

 

 

Guess I'm in the "stupid" club then.

 

First Skoda, First car with stop/start,first car with DSG box and first car with Electronic parking brake and Auto-Hold.

 

Sure I've been riding motor bikes and driving manual cars for 40 years but clearly need to learn how these automatics work. Always used neutral and hand-brake but assumed you could, YES, just but your foot on the brake until ready to move.

 

Thanks.

 

Appreciate all the advice always happy to learn.

[LarsKC]

According to the manual:

"Stopping temporarily (e.g. at a junction): Leave the selected mode D/S and secure the vehicle with the brake pedal. (Also se autohold below)
 

Stopping: Keep the brake pedal depressed. Secure the vehicle with the parking brake.

Choose the P mode. Turn off the engine.

NB: When turning off the engine in mode D, S or R then mode P is automatically selected.

Autohold: 

With Stop, the vehicle is automatically secured using Auto Hold. Auto Hold lights up in the instrument cluster. The brake pedal can be released.

With Start, the vehicle is automatically released using Auto Hold."

Seems simple enough. No need to complicate it. If following the manual would actually damage the car, I guess Skoda would be looking into some serious legal trouble.......

According to the manual:

"Stopping temporarily (e.g. at a junction): Leave the selected mode D/S and secure the vehicle with the brake pedal. (Also se autohold below)
 

Stopping: Keep the brake pedal depressed. Secure the vehicle with the parking brake.

Choose the P mode. Turn off the engine.

NB: When turning off the engine in mode D, S or R then mode P is automatically selected.

Autohold: 

With Stop, the vehicle is automatically secured using Auto Hold. Auto Hold lights up in the instrument cluster. The brake pedal can be released.

With Start, the vehicle is automatically released using Auto Hold."

Seems simple enough. No need to complicate it. If following the manual would actually damage the car, I guess Skoda would be looking into some serious legal trouble.......

[Priidik]

When driving in Drive mode I don't like that gearbox is a little bit lazy from low speeds. When I press throttle there is a lag and then when I apply more throttle it wants to spin the wheels.  Often I switch to Sport because then there's no lag and throttle response is instant, but then it will hold gears too long. 

Overall I'm pleased with the DSG. Of course it's not good as ZF gearboxes but good enough for cheap car. Also one thing is that when gearbox is cold, first meters when moving there is a small hiccup (not every time, but sometime exists).

[EnterName]

On 01/04/2023 at 15:58, Black_Thunder said:

It is also very important to select N (on DSGs which still have that option) if you know you will be stationary for more than a few seconds.  For three separate reasons. 

 

The first is that when stationary (in D, or any other 'gear' mode, and engine running), the ECU for the DSG holds the clutch on the bite point.  This is perfectly normal and okay for a few seconds, but prolonged holding of the clutch on the bite point causes excess heat, very high heat locally on wet clutch DSGs - and this can cause premature ageing of the DSG fluid.

 

The second issue is that this uses more fuel compared to selecting N - this is proven via live datalogging on VCDS of requested engine torque when in gear but stationary, compared to in neutral and stationary.

 

The third is that it is just a bad idea to hold a stationary car using the footbrake (for two separate reasons itself).

I agree with putting the gearbox in neutral when stationary. I always put my car in neutral when I come to a stop. In fact I usually slip it into neutral just before I come to a stop, as it allows a perfectly smooth stop.

Then when I move off, I press the brake, release the handbrake, engage drive, release the brake and off I go!

 

On 01/04/2023 at 16:37, Black_Thunder said:

And people coming to DSG from manual were simply given poor advice.

I can confirm this, and it's quite disorienting at first. While it's second nature to move the auto selector now, initially it was a very alien experience to me.

Even though it appears simple, when you're not used to it, a bit of explanation of DSG use for newbies prior to letting them drive off would be very useful.

[Ootohere]

The term hand brake is kind of misleading when there are finger brakes / e- brakes as the Parking brakes and they do not even require releasing as that can happen by just pressing the accelerator if a gear is selected and the engine running.      As to the DSG,s being good enough for cheap cars.  Skoda are not known for cheap cars anymore. Ps North America, Australia and other non EU world regions can get the same models with 1.4tsi,s and 8 speed autos, but then they are showing genuine emissions and not WLTP kidology and engine management to suit testing rather than real world on roads. 

Edited 5 April, 2023 by toot

[TheUltraRunner]

3 hours ago, EnterName said:

I agree with putting the gearbox in neutral when stationary. I always put my car in neutral when I come to a stop. In fact I usually slip it into neutral just before I come to a stop, as it allows a perfectly smooth stop.

Then when I move off, I press the brake, release the handbrake, engage drive, release the brake and off I go!

This is almost reading as you would have a manual transmission and not a DSG.  Doing this is taking away almost all advantages of having an automatic transmission.

[EnterName]

7 hours ago, TheUltraRunner said:

This is almost reading as you would have a manual transmission and not a DSG.  Doing this is taking away almost all advantages of having an automatic transmission.

How would you do things differently, @TheUltraRunner?

[TheUltraRunner]

17 minutes ago, EnterName said:

How would you do things differently, @TheUltraRunner?

Just thinking out loud. If you need to switch the gear leaver on an automatic transmission every time you come to a stop, it becomes kinda semi automatic. And it takes away all the pluses which auto transmission actually gives. I also doubt that new gear leaver was designed to be moved all the time because of it's small design (at least in the VAG group). 

I would put it in N every time when car is stationary for more than few minutes. But not in the traffic. I really can't imagine putting it in N every time I stop in a crawling traffic. or from traffic light to traffic light.

Please don't eat me alive. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. I'm just thinking out loud and how I imagine (or I would like) an automatic transmission should be used. 😇

Now I'm waiting another "drama" themed post from @toot 😅

[LarsKC]

54 minutes ago, EnterName said:

How would you do things differently, @TheUltraRunner?

I would just do what the manual says: keep it in D/S.

[EnterName]

28 minutes ago, TheUltraRunner said:

Just thinking out loud. If you need to switch the gear leaver on an automatic transmission every time you come to a stop, it becomes kinda semi automatic

Yeah, I suppose it does. But that's not a problem. I can drive a manual car just fine, so simply putting the gear selector into neutral and putting the handbrake on when coming to a halt seems natural to me. It also seems to be the most mechanically sympathetic thing to do, as far as the gearbox is concerned. When my car is stationary, the car does seem to "relax" (for want of a better word) when I put it into neutral from drive. I don't think the clutch is fully disengaged when the car is in drive and stationary with the brake pressed. I don't think it's a good practice to sit at a junction in drive, with only your foot on the brake stopping the car from moving forward. Better to have the car in neutral with the handbrake on. Presumably you don't use the handbrake at traffic lights or junctions, unless you intend to be stationary for some time?

 

33 minutes ago, TheUltraRunner said:

And it takes away all the pluses which auto transmission actually gives.

Not sure what you mean here. 🤔

 

34 minutes ago, TheUltraRunner said:

I also doubt that new gear leaver was designed to be moved all the time because of it's small design (at least in the VAG group). 

I have the old stick-style gear selector, not the new rocker/slider switch thingy. It might be that the gearbox behaves slightly differently with the new setup.

 

35 minutes ago, TheUltraRunner said:

I would put it in N every time when car is stationary for more than few minutes. But not in the traffic. I really can't imagine putting it in N every time I stop in a crawling traffic. or from traffic light to traffic light.

I started putting it in neutral when coming to a stop as it allows a perfectly smooth stop. I don't have any issue changing gear in a manual car, so moving the stick in and out of neutral on the DSG is no bother at all. Sometimes I knock the stick over to put it into manual to pre-emptively drop a gear for a low-speed hill nearby me, as the car doesn't change gear as I would like it to. It starts up the hill in 3rd, and then drops down to 2nd somewhere up the hill in a slightly awkward way. So to avoid this, I put it in 2nd at the bottom of the hill and then knock the gear selector back over to drive at the apex of the hill. Incidentally, I would like to be able to select economy mode quickly and easily, without having to cycle through the modes with one button. It's irritating as I have plenty of blank buttons, so an "ECO" button would be a useful addition for me. (I find I don't need to use sport mode much at all, on a day to day basis.)

 

44 minutes ago, TheUltraRunner said:

Please don't eat me alive. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. I'm just thinking out loud and how I imagine (or I would like) an automatic transmission should be used. 😇

Perish the thought! 😄

I only asked, as the way I use drive and neutral is how the car seems to prefer to be driven.

I have no preference as to how other people use their DSGs, but I am interested to learn how other people drive differently to me.

[EnterName]

43 minutes ago, LarsKC said:

I would just do what the manual says: keep it in D/S.

But that is not what it says.

It says you don't have to select neutral if you're only stopping for a short time. It does not say that you should not select neutral if you're only stopping for a short time.

I'm not sure of the origin of the idea that putting a DSG in and out of neutral is somehow a problem, rather than leaving it in drive.

Personally, I prefer to sit at a set of lights in neutral with my feet relaxed, rather than wait there with my foot pressed on the brake.

If people want to sit at the lights with their foot on the brake, that's fine by me.

 

Edited 5 April, 2023 by EnterName
Re-worded 4th sentence

[Ootohere]

You have 'Autohold' if left enabled. you come to a stop and push the brake pedal, the actuators have the brakes applied, front and rear and if the cars moves a bit the brakes are applied a bit more. 

Not like the parking brake just the rear brakes.     No foot on brake, you can have stop start off if you want and it sits there until to move off, press the accelerator. '

[LarsKC]

12 minutes ago, EnterName said:

Personally, I prefer to sit at a set of lights in neutral with my feet relaxed, rather than wait there with my foot pressed on the brake.

If people want to sit at the lights with their foot on the brake, that's fine by me.

 

Me too. But that is what Auto Hold is for: when approaching a red light, you press the brake - and lift you foot. The car is at standstill. When light turns green, you press the throttle, and on you go. No need to touch the gear selector - and even less the handbrake.

But I agree: to each his own 🙂

[TheUltraRunner]

6 minutes ago, LarsKC said:

Me too. But that is what Auto Hold is for: when approaching a red light, you press the brake - and lift you foot. The car is at standstill. When light turns green, you press the throttle, and on you go. No need to touch the gear selector - and even less the handbrake.

But I agree: to each his own 🙂

You are using start/stop I presume?

[LarsKC]

7 minutes ago, TheUltraRunner said:

You are using start/stop I presume?

Not sure what you mean by start/stop?

[TheUltraRunner]

Quote

Yeah, I suppose it does. But that's not a problem. I can drive a manual car just fine, so simply putting the gear selector into neutral and putting the handbrake on when coming to a halt seems natural to me. It also seems to be the most mechanically sympathetic thing to do, as far as the gearbox is concerned. When my car is stationary, the car does seem to "relax" (for want of a better word) when I put it into neutral from drive. I don't think the clutch is fully disengaged when the car is in drive and stationary with the brake pressed. I don't think it's a good practice to sit at a junction in drive, with only your foot on the brake stopping the car from moving forward. Better to have the car in neutral with the handbrake on.

I can also drive a manual just fine. Don't have a problem with that. But I bought an automatic for a reason. So I don't need to use a gear leaver when not necessary . I agree with you about the "relax" part. Indeed the engine runs higher when stationary in D as when in N.
 

Quote

Presumably you don't use the handbrake at traffic lights or junctions, unless you intend to be stationary for some time?

No. I rarely use the handbrake. Even when the car is in N for shorter time, I only use the brake pedal.
 

Quote

Not sure what you mean here. 

That it is called an automatic transmission for a reason. So you don't need to do anything since the gearbox does everything for you. But with your style of driving that's not the case.
 

Quote

I started putting it in neutral when coming to a stop as it allows a perfectly smooth stop. I don't have any issue changing gear in a manual car, so moving the stick in and out of neutral on the DSG is no bother at all. Sometimes I knock the stick over to put it into manual to pre-emptively drop a gear for a low-speed hill nearby me, as the car doesn't change gear as I would like it to. It starts up the hill in 3rd, and then drops down to 2nd somewhere up the hill in a slightly awkward way. So to avoid this, I put it in 2nd at the bottom of the hill and then knock the gear selector back over to drive at the apex of the hill. Incidentally, I would like to be able to select economy mode quickly and easily, without having to cycle through the modes with one button. It's irritating as I have plenty of blank buttons, so an "ECO" button would be a useful addition for me. (I find I don't need to use sport mode much at all, on a day to day basis.)

With the new VAG DSG design there is no leaver to put the gearbox into manual. You can only use paddles on the steering wheel. So you have even less interaction with that "thingy".

9 minutes ago, LarsKC said:

Not sure what you mean by start/stop?

Engine start/stop system which automatically switches off and on the engine at stop.

[LarsKC]

29 minutes ago, TheUltraRunner said:

Engine start/stop system which automatically switches off and on the engine at stop.

I'm driving an iV (hybrid), so that doesn't really apply.

Edited 5 April, 2023 by LarsKC

[EnterName]

1 hour ago, LarsKC said:

Me too. But that is what Auto Hold is for: when approaching a red light, you press the brake - and lift you foot. The car is at standstill. When light turns green, you press the throttle, and on you go. No need to touch the gear selector - and even less the handbrake.

But I agree: to each his own 🙂

I have no idea what "AutoHold" is, so perhaps I really am doing it all wrong.

Edit: Just checked the manual and I couldn't find AutoHold (or "auto hold") in there. The closest thing I could find to it is "hill assist".

A bit of research later and I think AutoHold is a feature that works with electronic handbrakes. I have an old-fashioned lever-type handbrake on my car.

Edited 5 April, 2023 by EnterName