TMC traffic events no longer being received...firmware update required?

[RescueDude]

2 minutes ago, Tell said:

Because I put them there but they are on the thread here where the work was done with credits here. If it's an Amundsen (mib2 standard) then no coding but you copy in revised file to the V12 maps (like yours). If Columbus (mib2 high) then you do need coding.

 

Mib2 standard:

 

https://www.seatcupra.net/forums/threads/updating-the-inbuilt-mib2-satnav-mib2-tricks-and-mib1.388586/page-136#post-5037297

 

Mib2 high:

 

https://www.seatcupra.net/forums/threads/updating-the-inbuilt-mib2-satnav-mib2-tricks-and-mib1.388586/page-136#post-5035425

 

There are some mib2 standards which are the wrong type, mentioned. Your firmware tells you if you got that. Mainly VW units but seems a few Skodas do.

 

All mib1 units whether standard or high just need the coding changed to traffic group 14 rather than 15. Additional to the links above.

The info comes up as 5Q0065874C

 

That after a bit of searching is a MIB2 with DAB. You reckon just the map update to version 12.7 should fix it?

[NigelR99]

The map need patching as well, it is all on this thread  - but it is a long and winding thread.......

 

Edited 20 April by NigelR99

[RescueDude]

2 minutes ago, NigelR99 said:

The map need patching as well, it is all on this thread  - but it is a long and winding thread.......

 

Long and winding is an understatement!

 

Top work.

[pcbbc]

8 minutes ago, RescueDude said:

The info comes up as 5Q0065874C

 

That after a bit of searching is a MIB2 with DAB. You reckon just the map update to version 12.7 should fix it?

MIB2 means nothing unless you specify if it is Standard or High. Two completely different systems, with two different procedures, as linked to in the post you quoted.

You’re being told you have MIB2 Standard, which requires v12 (or earlier) maps and applying the patch.

[RescueDude]

1 minute ago, pcbbc said:

MIB2 means nothing unless you specify if it is Standard or High. Two completely different systems, with two different procedures, as linked to in the post you quoted.

You’re being told you have MIB2 Standard, which requires v12 (or earlier) maps and applying the patch.

The standard or high malarkey is where it lost me. That's why I was hoping someone local could do it for me.

Edited 20 April by RescueDude

[NigelR99]

I think PCBBC posted the details on this thread 18 June 2023  it worked well on my MIB2 standard.   

 

[Tell]

22 minutes ago, RescueDude said:

The standard or high malarkey is where it lost me. That's why I was hoping someone local could do it for me.

Why the threads winding and having moderator profile on the Seat one I put it in the resource 🤣

 

You can read what it says on the map card. If it doesnt uses a map card it's a mib high, if it doesn't it's a mib standard. Next question is mib 1 or mib 2. Most people know if they have a mib 3. Mib3 2020 and on to 2024.  No TMC over radio it's all 4g online connected services.

 

Mib2 from 2015-2020.

 

Mib1 5 years before.

 

Audi slight different.

 

The firmware it's running also tells you what it is. No mapcard with maps showing its a mib2 high if in the date range. Map card required it's a standard unit. By far Skodas use mib2 highs. Seat being a more cheapskate brand tends to be mib2 standards.

 

I did do one Seat persons with a mib2 standard who got in a mess. It's all very straight forward if it's the card based system and know your way about a PC. The main thing is take a copy of the card before you start so you can get back to where you started. The Seat guy's error was copying pcbbc's overwrite next to what was there but not overwriting it. Once shifted to where it should be it worked. Was a simple beginners file copy error.

 

BTW it's winding thread since it turned into a campaign thread at times. No chance of Vag doing anything about it. It's self help which I said at the start. Vag has signed off mib2 and mib1. They are on mib3 now. When stuff vanishes from their website that's it, they aren't supporting it. It's self help then.

Edited 20 April by Tell

[RescueDude]

13 minutes ago, Tell said:

Why the threads winding and having moderator profile on the Seat one I put it in the resource 🤣

 

You can read what it says on the map card. If it doesnt uses a map card it's a mib high, if it doesn't it's a mib standard. Next question is mib 1 or mib 2. Most people know if they have a mib 3. Mib3 2020 and on to 2024.  No TMC over radio it's all 4g online connected services.

 

Mib2 from 2015-2020.

 

Mib1 5 years before.

 

Audi slight different.

 

The firmware it's running also tells you what it is. No mapcard with maps showing its a mib2 high if in the date range. Map card required it's a standard unit. By far Skodas use mib2 highs. Seat being a more cheapskate brand tends to be mib2 standards.

 

I did do one Seat persons with a mib2 standard who got in a mess. It's all very straight forward if it's the card based system and know your way about a PC. The main thing is take a copy of the card before you start so you can get back to where you started. The Seat guy's error was copying pcbbc's overwrite next to what was there but not overwriting it. Once shifted to where it should be it worked. Was a simple beginners file copy error.

Mines MIB 2 with a card'. Can't see anything in the info stating firmware. Hardware is H41 and software is 0472

Edited 20 April by RescueDude

[Tell]

2 minutes ago, RescueDude said:

Mines MIB 2 with a card'. Can't see anything in the info stating firmware. Hardware is H41 and software is 0472

That's a mib2 standard. The mapcode shown on the screen is also a clue since we know those. Us non Skoda people like to place them in the generic standard and high. The fly in the ointment with the  mib2 standards is to look for this:

 

To determine whether it's a Technisat (the one it works with) if it starts with MST2 and ends with T, MST2_EU_??_XX_XXXXT its a Technisat and the solution works.

 

 

[26DIPP]

On 10/04/2023 at 13:10, joek666 said:

Can't see TMC being turned off anytime soon, millions of drivers use it around the world. It has the advantage of not requiring a data connection as the information is transmitted via radio. 

 

And as I noted in my OP, the system is clearly still on as I observed it working just yesterday in another vehicle, albeit not a VW group vehicle. 

Just out of interest, since this didn't fix the problem, have they essentially given up and said they can't fix it? 

TMC was turned off for the old SII Columbus (RNS510) either by Skoda or VAG. TMC worked everytime I crossed the channel into civilized car country. TMC news working in Belgium, Holland, Germany, France.....

[pcbbc]

10 minutes ago, 26DIPP said:

TMC was turned off for the old SII Columbus (RNS510) either by Skoda or VAG. TMC worked everytime I crossed the channel into civilized car country. TMC news working in Belgium, Holland, Germany, France.....

Some newer car’s navigation systems already aren’t capable of receiving TMC, even where it’s still broadcast. The motor manufacturers have realised they can cut costs and stop paying the required TMC licence fees to the commercial operators, plus they can supply an internet based subscription service instead. That’s a cost win-win in their books.

 

This will be the death knell of the TMC service in countries where it’s a commercial venture, such as already happened in the UK with TrafficMaster. It may continue for some years yet in countries where the TMC model is a government funded public service.

 

With the vast majority of users switch to mobile devices for navigation, I suspect the only thing that is keeping built in navigation afloat at this point is that the motor manufacturers will ultimately need an in-car solution for autonomous driving.

[Tell]

13 hours ago, 26DIPP said:

TMC was turned off for the old SII Columbus (RNS510) either by Skoda or VAG. TMC worked everytime I crossed the channel into civilized car country. TMC news working in Belgium, Holland, Germany, France.....

Accurately neither Skoda or Vag turned it off the provider stopped providing it. Distributed company based service.

 

Detailed exposition of the system here:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_message_channel

 

If you look under Operation Worldwide tab you see there were two providers in the UK till Trafficmaster (Teletrac Navman) brand pulled out. It was that brand that Vag cars used together with some other manufacturers. Inrix the other UK provider continued it went under ITIS previously.

 

https://inrix.com/

 

It's was @bigade1 and @pcbbc that provided the details to knock the Vag receivers onto that channel using the built in facilities already in the Here Maps tables in the map data. Following a process similar to what had been done in Australia to get import cars on the Australia SUNA Traffic Channel system. That was the previous English language enthusiasts project. The UK became the next as Trafficmaster pulled out in April 2023 from the RDS transmission in the UK.

 

The issue of longevity of the broadcasts is unknown as @pcbbc said. Contract obligations to gather the data for their UK clients and car manufacturers and satnav providers to make the products available. Google provides flow data to routing algorithms piggy backed onto effectively spying on your Google app in the phone but doesn't actually provide what the issue is. Waze uses crowd sourcing of users reports but may not be accurate. Inrix official sourced data of road works etc augmented by flow data where they have it. That one is "official".

 

The UK Highway Agencies are now tied into Inrix

 

https://inrix.com/case-studies/uk-highways-agency/

 

Provider maps

 

England

 

https://www.trafficengland.com/

 

Wales

 

https://traffic.wales/road-traffic-map

 

Scotland

 

https://www.traffic.gov.scot/

 

These reports I believe you now find in the in car Inrix based system as the official source of traffic data. It was Trafficmaster at one time but that ceased as the demise and contracts shifted. Those service station displays now gone.

 

So that's the official source of Inrix data in the UK as far as I can see, when the transmission of this data stops to cars via FM is possibly anybodies guess. Connected cars and the use of Apple and Google products to give customer data has a bearing. The Mib3 VAG unit does not provide traffic data over FM / DAB its now a paid for service as part of the connected cars contract. Google / Apple products are free. Microsoft also has its own apps together with Here Maps and TomTom. All the apps tend to be flow based whilst Waze has crowd sourcing.

 

Inrix in the car remain the official data I would say from the sources as far as the UK is concerned but a different type of data. Congested areas where fast routing is required TMC may not be the best. I haven't seen the mib3 connected cars implementation in use, whether this is just Inrix data or enhanced flow data added, pass. You might get the best of both worlds, the official reports plus the routine algorithm based on better real-time flow data.

 

[pcbbc]

55 minutes ago, Tell said:

Google provides flow data to routing algorithms piggy backed onto effectively spying on your Google app in the phone but doesn't actually provide what the issue is.

Your mobile network operator can harvest anonymous traffic data as well. That doesn’t even require you to be using an app, or even a smartphone. It’s all based on which cell towers you are moving between and at what speed. When all of a sudden huge numbers of phones slow down or stop moving between given cells you can infer there’s a problem on the road network between those two locations.

I know of at least one cell provider who were working on such a solution to offer to the network providers way before 2020. 

https://engineering.wisc.edu/news/traffic-jamming-cell-phones-could-be-key-to-understanding-vehicle-flow/

Edited 1 May by pcbbc

[Tell]

Yes that's the market in flow data.

 

It's how HereMaps get their analysis data on any roads sneaking up by putting the mobile track data over them. Problem with that they get builders roads so when crowd sourcing sees what appear to be new roads on housing estates which are in fact temporary builders roads they pass validation since they look at the mobile phone track data. The bulldozer drivers mobile phone in their pockets, the delivery driver to the temporary store area. They should look at the builders published plans and local authority planning maps but don't. That's how builders roads get in. Then it's a devil of a job to get rid of them. New estates where this silliness occurs. It also gets into Google Maps and TomTom. Then all the map providers copy each other by digital analytic of each others products, flagging up areas to investigate. A failure of validation in one gets replicated, if each fails to remove the dross.

[26DIPP]

Days later, since my post a couple of lines up, I managed to get through the thread.

 

Brilliant thread and work around. Sadly I am now on a MIB3.

I had a few weeks left on the first year skoda connect contract when I got the car, but - unless I made some mistake - I never had traffic data on the sat nav. I have not renewed my contract and somewhat detest this. I loved my old SII but the longer I have the SIII I am not sure about a lot "Not Simply Clever" designs.

 

Are the MIB3 unit designed NOT to receive TMC at all from the hardware end or is this a software engineering trick?

 

Also has anyone involved the ?Which magazine. I know that they used to pick up this kind of topic and they seem to have a better leverage and connections.

[Tell]

2 hours ago, 26DIPP said:

Days later, since my post a couple of lines up, I managed to get through the thread.

 

Brilliant thread and work around. Sadly I am now on a MIB3.

I had a few weeks left on the first year skoda connect contract when I got the car, but - unless I made some mistake - I never had traffic data on the sat nav. I have not renewed my contract and somewhat detest this. I loved my old SII but the longer I have the SIII I am not sure about a lot "Not Simply Clever" designs.

 

Are the MIB3 unit designed NOT to receive TMC at all from the hardware end or is this a software engineering trick?

 

Also has anyone involved the ?Which magazine. I know that they used to pick up this kind of topic and they seem to have a better leverage and connections.

The story is they never built tmc into mib3, connect services only for traffic. Don't think Which would shift the Vag group. They were still happy to charge Seat and Audi customers just for map updates whilst VW and Skoda got them free - Which detested that but they continue doing it.

 

2020 was when mib2 stopped being fitted. The map updates are considered to have a 5 year period. That's coming up for free stuff. The other web sites for POI import crumbled shortly after 2020.

 

Pretty ruthless in wrapping up the old, thus it was self help on TMC to shift it onto the one still broadcasting. You have to help yourself if you have a Seat or Audi on free maps updates so we were use to that. Poi import on all brands of mib1 and 2 if you want to do it that way.

 

As for mib3 it's pretty diabolical as a navigation system from what I've seen. I've got no wish to buy a car with it. Ditto mib4 shortly. I'm sitting out till mib5 🤣. I like the cars system to work like a traditional navigation system not a cross between Google maps with poor memory storage. Pay as you go as well although the map updates you can do on all vag brands out of contract. Radio logos are an issue on mib3.