Sorry, a tyre query

[BTandSid]

We’ve had our 2020 Sportline 1.5 dsg for a few weeks and am very pleased with it. It came fitted with Bridgestone Turanza 225/40/19 93Y which I believe are the OEM option. I’ve never driven anything with low profiles before so am having to get used to the extra road noise and ride. However, Significant Other although not expressing any discomfort with the ride tends to point out every bit of rough road, pot-hole etc and I sense she’s no longer enjoying travelling any distance and that it’s wearing for her.

To make her life (and mine 😏) a bit more manageable I’m wondering about swapping the tyres out for something that would provide a more comfortable ride. I’ve read a couple of the other threads on here but am really none the wiser. If I’m going to have to buy four new tyres, I’d rather not change the Vega rims as well. What are the easiest options. 

Has anyone been through this?

Thank you

[Routemaster1461]

You probably have little option. A tyre of the same size from a different manufacturer will probably make little difference. You can't really use different sze tyres on the same rims, so you would need to buy smaller wheels with higher profile tyres. I have the same wheels on my car, also with Bridgestone Turanzas, and I am happy with the ride and comfort, but I am rather disappointed with the potential wear. I'm only on ~14000 miles but the tyres look touch and go for a 3000 mile trip in June. I may have to opt to have the wheels rotated front to back.

[BTandSid]

Thank you, sensed that might sadly be our only option; disappointing, as I like the look of the low profiles on the 19in rims, but it’s more a case of keeping SO happy.
My mileage is just over 19k and the fronts are more worn than the rears; suspect they could have been on from new, so may be in the market for new tyres all round within the next six months any way. 
Will see if anyone else has any suggestions 🤞

[Modders]

Without meaning to state the obvious but have you checked that the tyre pressures are correct?

I’ve been quite surprised by how comfortable my 19” rims with the same tyre size as you have been so far.

[SurreyJohn]

1 hour ago, BTandSid said:

Thank you, sensed that might sadly be our only option; disappointing, as I like the look of the low profiles on the 19in rims, but it’s more a case of keeping SO happy.
My mileage is just over 19k and the fronts are more worn than the rears; suspect they could have been on from new, so may be in the market for new tyres all round within the next six months any way. 
Will see if anyone else has any suggestions 🤞

On the assumption you want to stick with the large 19 inch rims.  Will try and explain what to do in informative way.

 

1) As already mentioned check pressures, if there are 3 quoted (see label on door frame or inside fuel cap) use the lowest, not the Eco value, or heavily loaded value.  The higher pressures make tyres firmer (thus rougher riding on poor quality tarmac which seems to have become common in parts of UK).

 

2) Turanza is Bridgestones more touring biased tyre, these are going to be softer than anything Sporty (which Bridgestone call Potenza) or Eco biased (which reduce fuel consumption by being fairly hard, firm is effectively opposite of comfort).  So you already have a softer tyre, but clearly you or your wife wants even more softness.  So when you come to change the tyres avoid anything sport or Eco biased.

 

3) Temperature, majority of people forget about this, basic physics will tell you rubber gets hard when cold and is more soft and squidgy when warmer.  Modern tyres are made of compounds, and have other materials in the mix eg silica.   The more elaborate compounds can widen ideal tyre operating temperature range.  Cheaper tyres can't afford to use expensive compounds so will never be as good outside ideal temperature range.  Also simpler compounds won't be as good as wear resistance (there is trade off between soft enough to be grippy, but firm enough not to wear quickly)

 

4) Seasonality.  The tyres you have are officially summer tyres, there are rumours in recent years have been formulated to do well in WLTP emissions test (which I think are done about +23c).  You don't have to be a genius to know this is well above UK average (the long term temperature you get in a cave in UK is nearer +12c so in blunt terms, although the factory fit summer tyres to new cars to suit the test, they don't suit UK climate (or more strictly only really suit UK weather from about April to mid November)

 

5) In last few year just about every major tyre manufacturer, have introduced all season (all year) tyres, these tend to have ideal temperature of -5c to about +25c (will still work with diminishing effectiveness outside this range).  So are ideal for UK climate.   Modern summer tyres (since WLTP testing) often have marked fall off in wet grip below about +10c (because they become harder in cold, as above).  Big problem as rain in UK is often cold (and UK rain is normally below +10c for around 8 months a year, because clouds are cold at thousands of feet up.

 

Putting all this together, if you pick a summer tyre, will be rubbish in cold rain, and very hard in colder weather, so unsuitable if finding tyre too firm.  So pick an all season tyre, and try and get one that is less summer biased as will be bit softer (and still be soft colder months).  Note that most all season tyres are directional, (will have 2 for left and 2 for right, same tyre, but they are mounted opposite way on the rim, can swap them front-back, but not change sides).  I would suggest swapping them front-back around 11-14k miles (I think this is actually recommended in the handbook, not that many actually read it), will even out your tyre wear.

 

One final piece of advice, all season tyre prices tend to jump around mid-late September, when everyone remembers weather is about to get cooler, and demand booms.  So order them before price rise time (even if fitting few weeks later).  Stick a reminder on your calendar for early September now.

 

Edited 29 April, 2023 by SurreyJohn
Missing bracket

[BTandSid]

No disrespect to previous contributors and those on the other threads but here’s a response I can understand 👍

[Carlston]

One problem with the 8Jx19 ET45 rims on the Karoq is that they are relatively wide for the 225/40R19 tyre size.

 

Relatively wide rims make the ride harder.

 

As well as 225/40R19, 235/40R19 is also used on the Karoq 2WD. Have a look at the white label inside the fuel filler flap. You might see both of these sizes listed.

 

So changing from 225/40R19 to 235/40R19 will add 4mm in height to the sidewalls, and on the 8J rim the 235/40R19 tyre size won't be as stretched as the 225/40R19 tyre size.

 

Your Y-speed rating is good for 186mph, but your Karoq doesn't even go over 130mph. So H-speed rating would be sufficient. This can make a big difference to ride comfort, because the sidewalls of lower speed tyres tend to be more flexible, all other things being equal.

 

The Michelin CrossClimate 2 is an all-season tyre and is winter rated, ie. it has the 3PMSF symbol.

 

235/40R19 fitted to 8J rims is also a standard Superb MK3 tyre size.

 

Michelin CrossClimate 2 235/40R19 96H XL (Euro label B B 71dB)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m142b0s10015p208572/Michelin_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Michelin_Cross_Climate_2_-_235_40_R19_96H_XL_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_B_Wet_Grip%3A_B_NoiseClass%3A_B_Noise%3A_71dB

 

225/60R16 is a Karoq 4WD tyre size, but could be used on the Karoq 2WD instead of the standard 215/60R16.

 

The standard 16" rim on the Karoq is 6Jx16 ET43, and is used with both the 215/60R16 on the Karoq 2WD and the 225/60R16 on the Karoq 4WD.

 

The Yeti used a 7Jx16 ET45 rim for its 215/60R16 tyre size, and would be a good alternatve rim choice on the Karoq with the 225/60R16 tyre size.

 

Vredestein Quatrac 6 225/60R16 102H XL (Euro label B B 71dB)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m139b0s8011p202131/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Vredestein_Quatrac_6_-_225_60_R16_102H_XL_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_B_Wet_Grip%3A_B_NoiseClass%3A_B_Noise%3A_71dB

 

7Jx16 ET45 5/112 57.1 steel rim

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rims/details?vehicleId=182363349315490928&rimCode=ALCAR9257

 

Edited 29 April, 2023 by Carlston

[BTandSid]

That’s interesting, thank you. I’ve run Cross Climates on a Subaru Impreza, Forester and Land Rover Freelander, obviously in differing sizes, and have been very impressed with them as an all-weather tyre. We don’t get sufficient heavy or deep enough snow here in the south east to warrant separate summer and winter tyres.
Present tyres may have another six months maximum in them so will certainly consider the CC2 again, but in the 235 H variant. Might start checking the prices out before then, may be deals going 🤞

[kodiaqsportline]

If it helps any, I checked sizes and couldn't find any alternative size that would accommodate a thicker tyre wall on the same 19" rims. The only options left were different size tyres ( and alloys ) or just change the tyre type/brand using the same size.

 

I'd done the latter on an Octavia, kept the same size but fitted Goodyear vector All Season tyres and it made a HUGE difference with respect to noise so did the same with the Karoq - swapped out the OEM tyres for Michelin Cross Climates.

 

Yes they've reduced the noise a bit but not to anything like the same extent as the difference with the Octavia. I'm disappointed to be honest. Given the option again, I'd have still changed to All Seasons but used a cheaper brand. When I looked, the Maxxis All season tyres were almost half the price of the Michelins. In retrospect I should have bought the Maxxis.

 

2 hours ago, SurreyJohn said:

One final piece of advice, all season tyre prices tend to jump around mid-late September, when everyone remembers weather is about to get cooler, and demand booms.  So order them before price rise time (even if fitting few weeks later).  Stick a reminder on your calendar for early September now.

 

 

That was exactly my thinking too and it certainly used to be the case but I've been keeping an eye on prices since changing them on the Karoq because I'd like to do the same with our Kodiaq. Unfortunately for whatever reason that theory hasn't been true over the past 6months as everyone is asking crazy prices for All Season tyres at the moment. Stocks seems limited too. I'm kicking myself for not taking up an offer by ATS last November. It'd cost me £200 more to buy the same set of tyres - I think Camskill is the cheapest source right now, for the size I'm looking at.   I'm at a complete loss to explain this.   

[SurreyJohn]

9 hours ago, kodiaqsportline said:

That was exactly my thinking too and it certainly used to be the case but I've been keeping an eye on prices since changing them on the Karoq because I'd like to do the same with our Kodiaq. Unfortunately for whatever reason that theory hasn't been true over the past 6months as everyone is asking crazy prices for All Season tyres at the moment. Stocks seems limited too. I'm kicking myself for not taking up an offer by ATS last November. It'd cost me £200 more to buy the same set of tyres - I think Camskill is the cheapest source right now, for the size I'm looking at.   I'm at a complete loss to explain this.   

All season tyres have become more popular, remember we also had cold first half of December with many places seeing -8c or lower, so stocks are very low.

 

Supply of tyres in UK is a fraction of Europe volume, factories will be geared to make summer tyres in first few months of the year ahead of the season, as logically not much point making a winter tyre in March that might not be bought for 6 months.   What I think has happened is that production volumes of all season are too low, so stocks have not been replenished so prices are still high. It also takes few weeks from factory to stockists, will hopefully see a change in availability from May-June when production of summer tyres is reduced and factories can switch some production over.

 

In 225/40 R19 size, there is a limited choice, probably going to be paying £175-220 for quality all season tyre.  Unfortunately Skoda seems to have had fad in recent years of fitting silly (unpopular) tyre sizes which cost more.  

Edited 30 April, 2023 by SurreyJohn

[SurreySlowCoach]

Going slightly off topic, I'm about to replace all 4 215/60 16 99V Bridgestones and there seems to be a  choice between 2 and 4 wheel alignment, having once had a car aligned on 4 wheels and then told it couldn't be adjusted at the rear I wondered if the Karoq  has any means of adjustment at the rear. As the rears have worn perfectly over 45k I think they might be best left alone. The fronts seem to last half that and wear more on the outside edge. 

Michelin Cross climates are considerably more than Bridgestones and if I went for them I'd have a bridgestone spare is mixing on the same axle ok?

 

[kodiaqsportline]

1 hour ago, SurreySlowCoach said:

 Michelin Cross climates are considerably more than Bridgestones and if I went for them I'd have a bridgestone spare is mixing on the same axle ok?

 

 

I guess using it simply as a spare to drive to the tyre centre ( and driving accordingly i.e. not over 50mph ) would be no different than using a mini-spare, but apart from that, absolutely not. Are your Bridgestones summer or all weather tyres? If they're summer then your compounding the problem as you should never mix All-Season with Summer even on different axles.

 

Personally I'd forget all about the Bridgestones and either buy a proper mini-spare or another Michelin XC. 

[Sanqhar]

Before buying tyres make sure to check out Asda prices. 

 

I saved a substantial amount of money.  

 

Remarkably the tyres were fitted by a local tyre dealer who could get nowhere near the Asda price. 

 

tom

[SurreySlowCoach]

For replacing with Bridgestones Asda we're a little cheaper than going direct to my local Merityre but cheapest by a long way are Halfords.

[SurreyJohn]

11 hours ago, SurreySlowCoach said:

Going slightly off topic, I'm about to replace all 4 215/60 16 99V Bridgestones and there seems to be a  choice between 2 and 4 wheel alignment, having once had a car aligned on 4 wheels and then told it couldn't be adjusted at the rear I wondered if the Karoq  has any means of adjustment at the rear. As the rears have worn perfectly over 45k I think they might be best left alone. The fronts seem to last half that and wear more on the outside edge. 

Michelin Cross climates are considerably more than Bridgestones and if I went for them I'd have a bridgestone spare is mixing on the same axle ok?

 

You have been told half the story, at the front can adjust the tracking (are they pointing exactly forward when steering wheel is centred). That is usually what doing 2 front wheels, just the tracking.

 

A full 4 wheel alignment should check lot more, camber, toe in etc.  Lots more to do, and needs someone fully trained to get it right as aligning in multiple directions.

 

If you have had no problems at back, I wouldn't do a 4 wheel align.

 

Tyres wearing on a shoulder, might be wrong pressure, but roundabouts usually cause it, typically affects front left.   That's why it is a good idea to swap tyres front-back around 8-14k miles to even out the wear.

 

Probably wouldn't go Bridgestone for an all season tyre, the Michelin cross climate 2 tends to be expensive, personally I would choose Goodyear vector 4season gen 3, or Vredestein Quattrac.

 

 

[JohnArm]

A recent review of all season tyres here: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product-group-tests/92863/best-all-season-tyres-2022-tyre-brands-reviewed-and-uk-prices-compared/verdict-results-category

 

As with most things in life, which bit of the tyres performance are you willing / able to accept as a compromise for what you'd like.

[BTandSid]

Spoke to a proper tyre guy today that I’ve used before, a long established family business not your KwikFit wideboys, and his feelings were that switching to a 235/40/19 would achieve little and his advice would be to switch to say a 17in wheel with full-sized tyres. This would obviously cost more but if it achieves the desired outcome, it may be the way we need to go.

Bearing this in mind, I had a quick look at the Skoda wheel booklet and there are 17in rims listed under all models. Would I be right to assume that any of these would fit my Karoq? Appreciate buying Skoda rims direct wouldn’t be cheap, it was more for getting ideas. Would also be useful to know, should there be any turn up in the For Sale section.
There’s plenty of wheel suppliers about who offer suitable rims or rim/tyre packages.

 

 

Edited 3 May, 2023 by BTandSid

[SurreyJohn]

1 hour ago, BTandSid said:

Spoke to a proper tyre guy today that I’ve used before, a long established family business not your KwikFit wideboys, and his feelings were that switching to a 235/40/19 would achieve little and his advice would be to switch to say a 17in wheel with full-sized tyres. This would obviously cost more but if it achieves the desired outcome, it may be the way we need to go.

Bearing this in mind, I had a quick look at the Skoda wheel booklet and there are 17in rims listed under all models. Would I be right to assume that any of these would fit my Karoq? Appreciate buying Skoda rims direct wouldn’t be cheap, it was more for getting ideas. Would also be useful to know, should there be any turn up in the For Sale section.
There’s plenty of wheel suppliers about who offer suitable rims or rim/tyre packages.

 

Not all the wheels will fit, the smaller models (Fabia, Scala, Kamiq) use 100mm PCD (bolt spacing), wheels for these won't fit the 112mm spaced bolts of the Karoq.

You need wheels with 57.1mm  centre bore (most VW group cars are), 5 bolt 112 PCD and an ET of about 43-45 ( this is offset, how far out the bolt plate is from being in line with middle of wheel), being couple of mm out is not much if that is all you can find.   Look at VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda, can always change centre cap badges

 

[BTandSid]

Thank you SurreyJohn, useful detail 👍

[Carlston]

This rim from the Kodiaq would fit the Karoq, perhaps with either standard 215/55R17 or slightly oversize 215/60R17 tyres. The outside edge of this 6.5J rim would be in about the same place as the standard Karoq 7Jx17 ET45 rim.

 

The 215/60R17 tends to be a cheaper tyre size than 215/55R17, so there could be long term cost savings if this tyre size was adopted instead of the standard 215/55R17.

 

6.5Jx17 ET38 5/112 57.1 alloy rim (from Kodiaq)(about £211.70 each)

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-nanuq-17-kodiaq/p/565071497D+FL8

 

6.5Jx17 ET38 5/112 57.1 steel rim (from Kodiaq) (perhaps for use as a spare wheel to match the specification of the above Kodiaq alloy rim) (about £63 each)

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/steel-wheel/vw-w9021#23183793

 

Edited 3 May, 2023 by Carlston

[croquemonsieur]

Sorry for the delay, but referring to Surrey John's longer message last Saturday, where he said that nearly all AW tyres are directional, I too found this to be so, when reearching this recently.  I also found that all current production tyres I came across were XL rated - i.e. extra strong sidewalls, which is good for robustness, but makes the ride somewhat harsher.  The only tyres that may not have been XL that I came across on the MyTyres site, were some left over previous generation Goodyear Vectors, still available there.

 

I actually decided to change my Karoq summer Turanzas on my Karoq that were wearing - to Hankook AW tyres + changing wheels from 17" 7J to 16"  6J in the process (these tyres were recommended in the Auto Express link that is included in JohnArm's message yesterday -  also recommended in other reviews though said likely to wear faster than most).  They are definitely quieter and more comfortable, but the slight rubbery firmness of the Turanza suspension is still there to a lesser extent, with some modest crashing /rumble over broken road surfaces, of which there are a lot right now.

 

I see in 'Which' (I recall) they reckon the Merc B clsss is considered one of the best riding of the fairly modestly priced upright cars - must try one soon to see how it compares with mine.  The Karoq already the quietest car I have ever owned (included BMW 5 series and Saab 9-5 in the past) is now pretty good as far as road noise is concerned, but whether it's as good as the renowned Jag XJ6 used to be, difficult to say. Handling if anything is even sharper than with the summer Turanzas that were on the larger wheels and economy certainly no worse (actually the other slight down side in the reviews), but I'll report some more on this aspect later when the warm summer weather always gives the best economy.  So all in all a good upgrade to the car.

[BTandSid]

Now this is probably going to be a very stupid question but rather than fit smaller wheels what is stopping me fitting full size tyres to the existing rims? Is it simply a question of there not being space, or the rims aren’t designed to accommodate any other tyres but the OEM low profiles?  I only ask since I was speaking to someone earlier today, explaining about the tyre issue and he said he’s had19in wheels as standard on his Mercedes with way less clearance than the Karoq and so it just made me wonder.

Edited 5 May, 2023 by BTandSid

[Carlston]

32 minutes ago, BTandSid said:

Now this is probably going to be a very stupid question but rather than fit smaller wheels what is stopping me fitting full size tyres to the existing rims? Is it simply a question of there not being space, or the rims aren’t designed to accommodate any other tyres but the OEM low profiles?  I only ask since I was speaking to someone earlier today, explaining about the tyre issue and he said he’s had19in wheels as standard on his Mercedes with way less clearance than the Karoq and so it just made me wonder.

 

As you can see in the below chart, the outside diameter of the standard Karoq 2WD tyres are all closely spaced. 215/50R18 has the biggest outside diameter and the outside diameter of that tyre size is only 1.4% bigger than the outside diameter of the 225/40R19 which has the smallest outside diameter.

 

Outside diameter of Karoq 2WD tyres

215/60R16 664.4mm

215/55R17 668.3mm

215/50R18 672.2mm (+1.4% bigger outside diameter than 225/40R19)

225/40R19 662.6mm

235/40R19 670.6mm

 

A much bigger outside diameter tyre will adversely affect the car's gearing. For example, the car might not pull away so easily in 1st gear, especially up a steep hill and with a full load on board...perhaps even towing a heavy caravan. Increasing the gearing too much, can also cause problems with the engine perhaps struggling to pull the now much higher top gear.

 

Fitting a much bigger outside diameter tyre than standard can cause rubbing.

 

Fitting a much bigger outside diameter tyre can cause the speedometer to under-read, which is illegal. For example, if your car's speedometer was showing 50mph but your actual speed was 51mph, then that is an example of under-reading.

 

Edited 5 May, 2023 by Carlston

[KenONeill]

3 hours ago, BTandSid said:

Now this is probably going to be a very stupid question but rather than fit smaller wheels what is stopping me fitting full size tyres to the existing rims? Is it simply a question of there not being space, or the rims aren’t designed to accommodate any other tyres but the OEM low profiles?  I only ask since I was speaking to someone earlier today, explaining about the tyre issue and he said he’s had19in wheels as standard on his Mercedes with way less clearance than the Karoq and so it just made me wonder.

@Carlston didn't mention this explicitly, but higher diameter tyres may rub on the outer wheel arches, and possibly even on the inner arches too. This is more likely when one wheel (probably the outside one) moves into bump during cornering.

[SurreyJohn]

Although the different wheel and tyre sizes vary by a few mm as @Carlston has pointed out, also bear in mind that new tyres have more tread depth, a worn tread will be 4-5mm less (which is 8-10mm less diameter).    
 

So exact diameter will depend on tread depth, and worn tyres are around 1-1.5% different which affects speed by about 1mph at motorway speeds.