Help- DPF needs replacing after 33k

[aas]

Hello all,

 

I am posting for some insight.

 

I bought my Karoq diesel estate 1.6 TDI SE L in Feb 2022 with 28k on the clock.

it doesn’t get driven hundreds of miles a week, but at least 100 and cruise control utilised, at least 60 miles of that 100 motorway.

 

travelling back down from Scotland, the glow plug light came on, lost acceleration power and then just cut out completely, stuck in a motorway slip road. RAC called and that has been a total disaster.

 

When it eventually got to our garage, a fault came up with a pressure sensor. Our garage says that this could have contributed to the overload of DPF (which internally is smashed/in pieces).

I have been told that a DPF should last 100-150k, so my question is- do I have some come back in this issue with the garage I bought or from, RAC or Skoda themselves. 
Car is obviously undrivable and part is £1917 + vat (I paid £18,600 and have only driven 7k since bought last Feb).

 

any help/advice appreciated.

[Ootohere]

Welcome, 

Sorry to hear this sad tale.  Someone might be along that can help and i asked a mod to move it to the Karoq section.

Maybe @Crasheror @ApertureScan give some guidance. 

 

If you bought it 17 months ago i hardly think you have anything to get from going back to who you bought it from.

[SuperbTWM]

Are you saying that all was well before the incident on the motorway?

 

Seems very strange to have a sudden failure that has physically damaged the DPF to that extent.

 

28K is not a lot for 4 years use at your time of purchase, maybe repeated regenerations in its previous life as it pottered about around town took its toll on the DPF

[EnterName]

13 hours ago, aas said:

Hello all,

 

I am posting for some insight.

 

I bought my Karoq diesel estate 1.6 TDI SE L in Feb 2022 with 28k on the clock.

it doesn’t get driven hundreds of miles a week, but at least 100 and cruise control utilised, at least 60 miles of that 100 motorway.

 

travelling back down from Scotland, the glow plug light came on, lost acceleration power and then just cut out completely, stuck in a motorway slip road. RAC called and that has been a total disaster.

 

When it eventually got to our garage, a fault came up with a pressure sensor. Our garage says that this could have contributed to the overload of DPF (which internally is smashed/in pieces).

I have been told that a DPF should last 100-150k, so my question is- do I have some come back in this issue with the garage I bought or from, RAC or Skoda themselves. 
Car is obviously undrivable and part is £1917 + vat (I paid £18,600 and have only driven 7k since bought last Feb).

 

any help/advice appreciated.

Reading your post, it sounds like that your car had been running perfectly well, then suddenly for no reason at all, a pressure sensor failed and catastrophically damaged your DPF, to the extent it is physically broken internally.

Is that a reasonable summary of your post?

[Crasher]

A common failure, when we encounter this (often) we get DPF Clean Team in Hinckley to source us a good and cleaned/tested by them used unit, rather good used than aftermarket.

 

Edited 23 July, 2023 by Crasher

[J.R.]

I mistakenly bought an aftermarket Cat once, I dont think it had any precious metals within it.

 

Definitely good used rather than new aftermarket in this instance, there is a complete disincentive for any manufacturer to make one that actually functions correctly if it puts the cost up, people will always choose the cheapest in the absence of any other info.

[aas]

1 hour ago, Crasher said:

A common failure, when we encounter this (often) we get DPF Clean Team in Hinckley to source us a good and cleaned/tested by them used unit, rather good used than aftermarket.

 

We couldn’t get a used unit, apparently . And it was sent off to be cleaned, that’s when they found that it was destroyed inside.

[aas]

4 hours ago, EnterName said:

Reading your post, it sounds like that your car had been running perfectly well, then suddenly for no reason at all, a pressure sensor failed and catastrophically damaged your DPF, to the extent it is physically broken internally.

Is that a reasonable summary of your post?

Yes, and It was. It had done the trip from Somerset to the east coast of Scotland perfectly. The first sign of an issue was the glow plug light and then it just shut off. Wouldn’t restart. 
 

[aas]

13 hours ago, SuperbTWM said:

Are you saying that all was well before the incident on the motorway?

 

Seems very strange to have a sudden failure that has physically damaged the DPF to that extent.

 

28K is not a lot for 4 years use at your time of purchase, maybe repeated regenerations in its previous life as it pottered about around town took its toll on the DPF

How would I know this though (when purchasing)? And should this not have been checked before selling?

[EnterName]

57 minutes ago, aas said:

Yes, and It was. It had done the trip from Somerset to the east coast of Scotland perfectly. The first sign of an issue was the glow plug light and then it just shut off. Wouldn’t restart.

2 hours ago, Crasher said:

A common failure, when we encounter this (often) we get DPF Clean Team in Hinckley to source us a good and cleaned/tested by them used unit, rather good used than aftermarket.

 

I have heard nothing about this before, far less it being a fairly common problem. 😮

Can you spare the time to explain what causes the physical damage please, @Crasher

 

[ApertureS]

5 hours ago, EnterName said:

Reading your post, it sounds like that your car had been running perfectly well, then suddenly for no reason at all, a pressure sensor failed and catastrophically damaged your DPF, to the extent it is physically broken internally.

Is that a reasonable summary of your post?

A pressure sensor wouldn’t cause the failure of a DPF.

 

A DPF is a ceramic monolith, the only way of failure would be impacted by something such as the tip of a temperature sensor or the impeller from the turbo.

or

The DPF has got to a temperate probably over 1000c and it has caused the failure through melting. The only way this could of happened would be:

Air - possible air leak or over boost

Fuel - leaking injector would dump excess fuel into the exhaust and cause the temperature rise 

Timing - you’d expect a fault code for this but bad timing could cause it.

 

personally I’d be smoking testing the engine, checking the turbo is still in one piece and also checking them injectors.

 

also chances are the dpf pressure sensor is not faulty - it will read high/low circuit faults when it gets to absolute extremes of pressure readings (because that’s how self diagnosis of the modules work) and with a solid dpf it would send the pressure sky high throwing the voltage over 4.5V which triggers a high voltage fault/short circuit fault 

[SurreyJohn]

The glow plug light doesn't just indicate the glow plugs (it does this on start up).   It also indicates other things, although you might not be aware unless you read relevant page of user manual.

 

I am wondering if some of the working well comments above, should be more along lines of seemed to be working, but in reality was just about working but no one noticed it wasn't perfect.

 

You bought it Feb 2022 when it had done 28k miles, if it is a 2018 car sounds like it had done about 7-8k miles per year, but we don't know if that was lots of town driving and only occasional runs to clear the DPF.  There is high likelihood that it was part blocked when you bought it (but not enough that it was obvious). If not fully cleaned during a regen, a tar like substance will gradually build up.

 

Appears you have done 5k miles, in 17 months (just under 3.5k miles per year).  My fear is you might have damaged the DPF as cruising at 60mph in high gear isn't really going to get it hot enough (the air blowing past it will be cooling it) and sounds like didn't keep it in low enough gear to generate sufficient heat, really need good 20+ minutes at least 2500 revs.

 

I suspect it was gradually clogging up, and the reduced clear passageway got too hot, and there was a fire inside the DPF.  With DPF thus blocked sensor gave unusual reading and engine shut down.

 

Sadly there is a risk when buying used, especially with euro6 diesels, because you don't know if the previous owners pattern of usage kept the DPF fully clear.   After 17 months the seller has no liability so can't pursue them.   I suppose if curious to find out, could send a stamped addressed envelope to previous owner on V5 asking for their typical pattern of driving due to early DPF, but again they have no liability.

 

Sorry it won't help you, but if only doing 3.5k per year, should have bought the petrol version because of high risk of DPF failure.    
 

Something isn't adding up if bought it at 28k miles, now 33k miles, owned it 17 months and doing 100 miles a week, as that works out at only 68 miles per week.

 

 

Edited 23 July, 2023 by SurreyJohn

[Crasher]

On 23/07/2023 at 13:49, EnterName said:

Can you spare the time to explain what causes the physical damage please, @Crasher

There are various reasons, miss fuelling with petrol, injector failure, remapping, EGR delete, adblue problems and... they just do. We had a none AdBlue Scirocco come in which would hardly drive, the DOC/DPF was melted and the NOX cat underneath cracked, the cause was the Air Mass Meter.

[Routemaster1461]

I get very confused by modern exhaust systems. My understanding is that the DPF is located right by the turbocharger. This is so that it can get as hot as possible to burn off the particles collected in it. The Adblue is to reduce levels of nitrogen oxides in the caralytic concerter, which is located under the car. The Adblue is injected into the exhaust system after the DPF, and as far as I am aware, can have no effect on the DPF.

[Crasher]

It is complex, so more so than others. Say take a 2021 Carrot like yours but with one of the five different systems, say one of the three single dosing (there are two twin dosing versions) systems

 

"Exhaust gas treatment system For vehicles with selective catalytic reduction (SCR) 4-wheel drive with PR:1E9+4BF, 7CP"

 

This has a "close coupled" Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC) after the turbo followed by a reductant injector which has a Diesel Particulate Filter below (with combined EGR cooler) and into a Selective Catalytic Reduction catalyst under the car.

 

I have been doing this for 42 years and to be honest it is getting too much, Frankenstein technology. This stuff is EU6, EU7 will be MUCH worse.

 

 

[SuperbTWM]

 

10 hours ago, Crasher said:

It is complex, so more so than others. Say take a 2021 Carrot like yours but with one of the five different systems, say one of the three single dosing (there are two twin dosing versions) systems

 

"Exhaust gas treatment system For vehicles with selective catalytic reduction (SCR) 4-wheel drive with PR:1E9+4BF, 7CP"

 

This has a "close coupled" Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC) after the turbo followed by a reductant injector which has a Diesel Particulate Filter below (with combined EGR cooler) and into a Selective Catalytic Reduction catalyst under the car.

 

 

 

I think this is what my Passat is like, there is something after the turbo but it isn't not big enough to be the DPF and it can't be the main SCR catalyst because it's before the DEF injector.

 

I do have a failure of the post SCR NOX sensor also, seem to be quite an expensive part as well ☹️

[JohnArm]

23 hours ago, Crasher said:

It is complex, so more so than others. Say take a 2021 Carrot like yours but with one of the five different systems, say one of the three single dosing (there are two twin dosing versions) systems

 

"Exhaust gas treatment system For vehicles with selective catalytic reduction (SCR) 4-wheel drive with PR:1E9+4BF, 7CP"

 

This has a "close coupled" Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC) after the turbo followed by a reductant injector which has a Diesel Particulate Filter below (with combined EGR cooler) and into a Selective Catalytic Reduction catalyst under the car.

 

I have been doing this for 42 years and to be honest it is getting too much, Frankenstein technology. This stuff is EU6, EU7 will be MUCH worse.

 

 

I liked diesel engines for their simplicity, reliability and lesser fuel consumption. Now they seem to be way more complicated and less reliable than the petrol alternatives. Thankfully I don't do the miles per year that would make a diesel a more attractive financial proposition.

[J.R.]

Absolutely my sentiments, my first was a 98 Alhambra followed by a MK1 Octavia, may have been the same engine in each, very simple with only enough electronics to make best use of the fuelling and the turbocharger, but even then the achilles heel of a very simple EGR mechanism was showing itself.

[Crasher]

The Octavia 1U was a brilliant version of the PQ34 platform, more so than the Golf 4.

[J.R.]

I believe you but never having driven a Golf could you explain in which way?

 

I realise that it may well be down to perception and a Golf owner would disagree but I trust your judgement.

 

The pal I bought mine from said it was the same platform as the Passat, he worked for Ricardo so I didn't doubt him, years later when I learnt it was a Golf in Skoda clothing and not a Passat I was really surprised because it was such a load lugger, it made me thonk thet the Golf must be really robust.

[SuperbTWM]

11 hours ago, J.R. said:

years later when I learnt it was a Golf in Skoda clothing and not a Passat I was really surprised because it was such a load lugger, it made me thonk thet the Golf must be really robust.

 

It's a good job really, the Passat of the same vintage was a bit of a barge, also had a front suspension set up that consisted of 4 arms per side rather than 1, pricey to replace and a nightmare to diagnose a knock wheen there are an extra 3 ball joints!

Edited 31 July, 2023 by SuperbTWM

[Crasher]

The Octavia 1U just seems to have been better built, definitely less rust prone and more reliable, the PQ34 platform was much less expensive to maintain than the following PQ35 used under the Octavia 1Z, mainly due to the overly complex rear suspension. The Passat 98>05 was on the Audi A4 8D platform then in 2005 went onto a modified Golf 5 PQ35 platform called PQ46.

[BobbyPollock]

Hi aas,

 

I have been trying to resolve a dpf problem with my 2020 Karoq since March 2022.  My car was under manufacturers warranty and had 18,000 miles on the clock.  The Emission Control System (ECS)  Warning light came on and I immediately contacted the dealership and was told that they couldn't see me for 2 months, due to staffing issues and a covid related backlog of work! 

 

I was also advised by the dealership that it would be okay for me to continue to drive the car, but I may experience "performance" problems (not a huge problem due to only driving locally and not being a boy racer).  However, a number of weeks later and before the dealership could get my car in for checking, the dpf warning light then appeared. 

 

Long story short, by the time they had got the car in to the garage they (dealership) told me it would be £3,000 for a new dpf and then pushed this up a fortnight later, due to supply chain issues, to £4,000!!  Alternatively "I could try and get rid of the car via We Buy Any Car.com"!!!!!  (Ethics and integrity is not dead!) I could also try a DPF Doctor.    

 

A local independent garage cleaned the dpf, ran a diagnostics check and advised me that the root cause of the problem was a faulty EGR valve, which was under warranty.  Hooray! 

 

Since then I have also had 2 x "Nox" sensors and a Glow Coli pressure switch fitted.  The dealership has now advised me that my car needs a new dpf (de ja vu)!!!  

 

Skoda UK NOT the least bit interested either in doing the honourable thing and nor is the dealership. 

 

Meanwhile I now have a choice of handing over £3,300, to the Czech Republic's **** Turpin for a new dpf, or going to DPF Clean Team in Hinckley (No brainer).   

 

Having driven diesel cars, Toyota, Land Rover, Vauxhall, Ford and the like, for nearly half a century my advice would be...

 

If after sales service is important to you, never buy a Skoda or any car from their dealership in South Lanarkshire.      

[Sanqhar]

 

aas - Am I reading this right you bought the car at 28000 miles and now approx 18/19 months later you have done 7000 miles.  That is not optimum usage for a modern diesel with dpf and egr.  

 

I previously had a diesel Yeti that never missed a beat until the post emissions scandal fix. It started having problems with the dpf regeneration and the egr.  If I detected a regeneration taking place (usually at or towards the end of a journey) I would then keep driving using a lower gear on a dual carriageway, keeping the revs up to ensure the regen finished. Aborted regenerations are a problem in waiting.

The car's original egr failed and was replaced under the 2 year post fix egr warranty.  Two years later, with my annual mileage substantially reducing (i.e. to around 5,000 miles a year from a previous over 15,000) and coming to the end of the second egr warranty I did not want to risk a second failure so I traded it for a petrol Karoq.  The diesel Yeti was the best car I ever owned  ...up until the emissions fix screwed things up.

 

I think the problem is that diesel technology has still not yet caught up with low mileage use.  When I was looking to replace the Yeti I only had one car salesman warn me about low mileage diesel usage and that was at a Land Rover dealership. 

 

tom

 

 

   

    

[Ootohere]

@BobbyPollock There were a good few other Skoda Approved Repairers you could have had the car too under warranty, did you try booking into them?

 

Is it Park,s Hamilton Skoda you are warning against? 

 

Good call there if so. 

Edited 11 November, 2023 by Rooted