Which Karoq DSG?

[nonuffinprof]

We're in the market for a new second-hand car as our 09 Focus starting to cost too much to maintain. Prices are ridiculous, so we want to get this right. My wife fancies a higher driving position so we are following the crowds and getting an SUV. The Karoq is our top choice. I have a slightly dodgy knee so we looking for a DSG. We do predominantly short trips so a petrol makes most sense. I'm completely untechnical and have a tendency to overresearch, hence the moniker and the questions below:

Questions

1) 1.0 or 1.5 TSI?  Have test driven a 1.0 manual (few 1.0 autos within driving distance) and it seemed to have enough oomph with the four of us plus a very large salesman. My local garage says timing belt easier to change on a 1.5 although I understand that the 5 year change interval has now been abandoned. Honest John real mpg suggests not much of an mpg difference (39.5 mpg for the 1.5 vs 42 mpg for the 1.0) 

2) SE or SEL? My heart says SEL for the rear camera, plush heated seats, tumbling rear seats and satnav but it does seem to add another £2000 on. 

3) I have test driven the 1.0 Octavia DSG but not the 1.0 Karoq as none near me. The Octavia seemed very slow to respond from a standstill (ie I squeeze the accelerator and it takes maybe half a second to respond). Is this normal on all DSGs?

4) There doesn't seem much legroom in the back. Anyone out there with 6 ft sons? 

5) Advantages of buying from a SKODA dealer?

5) Other possibilities: Seat Ateca (seems to be slightly cheaper for same spec) or Toyota RAV 4 hybrid (slightly more room and 10 year warranty for similar money).

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

 

Lots there to go over and the members with the cars will be along..

First the local garage was very wrong on a 1.5 TSI ACT being easy to change, it needs the correct equipment and takes longer than a 1.0, 1.2 or 1.4 tsi.

As to the replacement intervals you will see in posts on here that the 5 year change period has been dropped by VW Group. 

 

A 1.0 TSI might well feel a bit different from a 1.5 TSI ACT with 150 ps from a standstill, but if a FWD 1.5 TSI ACT it has a DQ200 7 speed twin dry clutch DSG the same as a 1.0 TSI, 

but mapped differently for the different engines. 

[SurreyJohn]

Trying to answer in order

1) The 1.0 is generally adequate unless fully loaded

2) Extra equipment is nice, but if you keep your cars to 14 years, it could also be seen as more to potentially fail and need costly repairs.   Of course if your current car doesn't have these, then unlikely to miss what you never have been used to.

3) Most people turn off start/stop as it causes a delay in pulling away. Not sure about the delay if S/S is off

4) If it had variable rear seats, were they forward or back (can move them and trade the legroom for boot space), from memory only move about 6cm but makes lot of difference to leg space.  Worth checking position of seats.

5) Main advantage is you can insist on any recalls, and software updates being done as part of buying package, they can also print full service history for you to examine.   There is a buyers warranty (but most good dealers include some warranty).  Ultimately distance away, price and availability probably be more important.

6) Seat has fewer dealers, specs were different, (some things not there, but others that were not standard on Skoda are added) but basically same car. Can't comment on RAV4 but Toyota gives good warranty provided they service it, think it is lost if serviced by others.

 

 

[nonuffinprof]

Many thanks Toot. That was my mistake not the garage's. They said the 1.5 harder to change; in fact they had to send it to another garage. Good to have it confirmed that they have dropped the 5 year change. It almost put me off buying one!

 

So are you saying 1.5 ACTs will be quicker to respond than 1.0s? Sorry if this is a dumb question. Also, I'd ignored the ACT spec  which I gather stands for Active Cylinder Technology. About half of the Karoqs advertised on autotrader signal that they are ACT. It might be that some dealers just don't bother noting it. Otherwise it seems odd that some have it and some don't. Presumably it's a bonus if it does, as better mpg? Or is it just another thing that might go wrong...

[nonuffinprof]

Many thanks SurreyJohn. Really helpful replies. I'd forgotten about the rear seat adjustment. We were test driving an SE today, which has fixed seats. Another reason to go SEL, although I take your point about more gadgets to go wrong! And yes, we tend to hang on to cars for as long as possible.

 

[xman]

1 hour ago, nonuffinprof said:

) Other possibilities: Seat Ateca (seems to be slightly cheaper for same spec) or Toyota RAV 4 hybrid (slightly more room and 10 year warranty for similar money).

 

If buying an approved used Skoda v Seat or buying sold with Skoda/Seat extended warranty check the small print very carefully. In the past Seat warranties were limited to £1000 per repair, where Skoda had no such restriction.

 

Toyota/Asian cars are completely different experience, they may have the reputation and perceived reliability but my experience they feel cheaply finished and crude. Generally based on simple old tested and tried designs, which has pluses as well as minuses. Their infotainments are clunky and layout of controls tend to be very random/hap hazard.

 

Last time I looked I thought the Toyota RaV4 were a lot more expensive than Karoq/Ateca/Tiguan

 

10 yr Toyota warranty is dependent on annual dealer servicing.

 

The big question mark against Skoda/Seat/VW is the DQ200 dry clutch auto box. It doesn't have the best reputation for reliability and if you end up with the lemon it can be extremely expensive to fix £1000 won't cover it. Again check very carefully if the DSG is fully covered by whatever warranty is offered. Make sure the clutch pack is not excluded as a wear and tear item.

[agedbriar]

2 hours ago, nonuffinprof said:

3) I have test driven the 1.0 Octavia DSG but not the 1.0 Karoq as none near me. The Octavia seemed very slow to respond from a standstill (ie I squeeze the accelerator and it takes maybe half a second to respond). Is this normal on all DSGs?

 

My 1.5 TSI is slow to respond from a standstill too.

 

With a manual transmission, you can rev the engine up before you let the clutch in. With DSG, it's the computer that determines at which revs the clutch will engage. And it always does that early, before the turbo reaches it's threshold. Hence slow starts. Disabling S/S doesn't help for me, neither does much the Sport mode, only "launch start" does, but I do it in extreme situations only.

 

Edited 23 July, 2023 by agedbriar

[nonuffinprof]

Thanks both--again very helpful.

 

XMan: Everyone after Karoqs and few around, so prices similar: 2018 Karoq SEL roughly same as Rav 4 Icon (lowest spec), circa £20,000. But RAV4 insurance another £300/year, presumably as 2.5 hybrid petrol engine.  Bit worrying about the DQ200 dry clutch auto box issues. Should this be enough to put me off DSG Karoqs?

 

Aged Briar: I suspect I'll just have to get used to a slightly more laid back style of driving: manual focus to an auto SUV was always going to be a bit of step change! 

[Sanqhar]

15 hours ago, agedbriar said:

 

My 1.5 TSI is slow to respond from a standstill too.

 

With a manual transmission, you can rev the engine up before you let the clutch in. With DSG, it's the computer that determines at which revs the clutch will engage. And it always does that early, before the turbo reaches it's threshold. Hence slow starts. Disabling S/S doesn't help for me, neither does much the Sport mode, only "launch start" does, but I do it in extreme situations only.

 

I'm sure my 2018 SeL DSG has Launch Control.  Never tried it, however.

This is what the Manual says:

 

"The launch control function is available in mode S or Tiptronic.

› Disable the TCS » page 214, Braking and stabilisation systems.
› Fully depress and hold the brake pedal with your left foot.
› Fully depress the accelerator pedal with your right foot.
› Release the brake pedal - the vehicle is running at maximum acceleration."

 

Tom

 

[agedbriar]

1 hour ago, nonuffinprof said:

Aged Briar: I suspect I'll just have to get used to a slightly more laid back style of driving

 

That's what I did.

Not so much of a sacrifice at 79.  

 

[CJJE]

The varioflex seats seem to leave less legroom in the back, which was one of the factors leading me to buy a Sportline with the standard seats. However these will also be fitted to the SE Drive as standard. 

 

Although the SEAT Ateca is closely related, its suspension is set up for a more sporty ride, and so will be less comfortable. And as threads here will tell you, the bigger the wheels on your Karoq, the less comfortable the ride is.

 

I've driven a 1.0 TSI DSG Kamiq as a courtesy car when my 2.0TSI DSG Karoq was being serviced. It was acceptable from a performance point of view, but I wasn't convinced about any fuel savings as I found myself using full throttle far more! 

 

Chris

 

[agedbriar]

 

Re the launch control function that Sanqhar mentioned (earlier I called it "launch start", from memory):

It's effective (although still not immediate!), but it's a quick start that doesn't feel under my full control. Can be a little scary in a turn start.

[BTandSid]

We bought a Karoq Sportline 1.5dsg in April to replace a Freelander, as like you I’ve got dodgy knees and was looking at an SUV to allow for the easier access. The front seats in the Sportline are more ‘fitted’ having moulded sides and lumbar supports as well as high backs (rather than separate headrests) which may not be everyone’s choice although I think they’re very comfortable having had similar seats in an Impreza some years ago. If the car’s going to be driven regularly by more than one driver you might find it a pain having to adjust the seat position manually - a friend had an electric seat fitted when he bought his, £1000! 
The Sportline also has 19in rims as standard which again aren’t everyone’s choice. We found they gave a very hard ride and on the recommendation of members on here I looked into getting smaller rims. In the end, as I needed to replace the front tyres any way I chose to replace the oem Bridgestones with CrossClimates and the change has been like chalk and cheese. Not even significant other complains now 😉

[nonuffinprof]

Thanks all. I think I'll avoid the launch control function! Looks like I'll have to get my tape measure out re which version has more legroom. And yes, the Ateca did feel a bit harsher when I test drove one. Most of our regular routes involve several sets of speed bumps so that pretty much rules out the Ateca. Will remember to get smallest rims possible! Still undecided on 1.0 v 1.5, and trim level. And would still welcome advice on whether the DQ200 dry clutch auto box issues are serious enough to warrant going for a manual. My knees could probably handle a light clutch (only 53...) and the model I most enjoyed testing was the 1.5 manual (less gear changes felt necessary than the 1.0).

 

[BTandSid]

Have you driven the 1.5dsg?  As far as I can see you’ve only been out in a 1.0 manual. Think you’d notice a huge difference in the overall performance especially if there’s four adults travelling and add to that the extra weight for your luggage if you’re holidaying. The smaller engine would be fine for local stuff but you’d certainly welcome the 1.5 on longer runs.

[smipx]

I personally think all this talk of the DQ200 and reliability is getting a little bit out of hand. There is the original DQ200 and the more up-to-date DQ200.  Is the more up-to-date one really that fragile and "dodgy" that folk should be avoiding it in 2023?  I'm not convinced that is the case so long as you avoid the 1st generation of boxes and go for one that post 2016 build (i.e. after VAG made some reliability modifications).  That means that all Karoq and similar should be "okay"??

[Smokeyjoe]

I had an Audi A3 with DSG and paddle shifts on the steering wheel which I loved except that it was slow to pull away approaching roundabouts unless it had selected the right gear. It was better running in 'sport' mode or by using the paddles to downshift manually but not perfect.

 

My understanding with the Karog DSG's is that the box still shifts up at the earliest opportunity and therefore makes acceleration sluggish as it waits for the engine to be 'on song'. This is especially true for 1.0 TSI although new ones are not available with DSG any more. The 1.5 TSI had all sorts of early problems with 'flat spots' at low revs which should have been sorted with software updates but if buying second hand should be thoughly test driven in all sorts of driving situations.

 

The DSG on my Audi went bang and was off the road for 3 weeks awaiting repairs thankfully under warranty, but it was enough for me to say I would never have another. If buying a new car and changing at 3 years, then I may give a DSG another go, but if buying and keeping for several years, then I would not (just in case).

 

Others will disagree, and I was maybe unlucky and the newer DSG models are proving more reliable, but I also prefer to have more control over the gears I am using when driving.

[PedalBin]

Just to add my 'tu'pence'. 

 

I have a Sportline on the bigger 19 rims and like BTandSid put Cross Climate2 on them. Fantastic ride, everyone remarks on how quiet and smooth the ride it.

 

If you go for a Sportline you can go for the 2.0 litre engine does cost slightly more to run but has a timing chain so no expensive cam belt to replace. 

[BTandSid]

56 minutes ago, PedalBin said:

Just to add my 'tu'pence'. 

 

I have a Sportline on the bigger 19 rims and like BTandSid put Cross Climate2 on them. Fantastic ride, everyone remarks on how quiet and smooth the ride it.

 

If you go for a Sportline you can go for the 2.0 litre engine does cost slightly more to run but has a timing chain so no expensive cam belt to replace. 

 
Yes, the CrossClimates have been an absolute revelation compared to the OEM Bridgestones and what’s more they’ve gained Significant Others approval, so win-win all around 😄 Apart from the far superior ride, they also look more the business, far chunkier than the Bridgestones. 

[chieflordy]

On 24/07/2023 at 17:04, BTandSid said:

We bought a Karoq Sportline 1.5dsg in April to replace a Freelander, as like you I’ve got dodgy knees and was looking at an SUV to allow for the easier access. The front seats in the Sportline are more ‘fitted’ having moulded sides and lumbar supports as well as high backs (rather than separate headrests) which may not be everyone’s choice although I think they’re very comfortable having had similar seats in an Impreza some years ago. If the car’s going to be driven regularly by more than one driver you might find it a pain having to adjust the seat position manually - a friend had an electric seat fitted when he bought his, £1000! 
The Sportline also has 19in rims as standard which again aren’t everyone’s choice. We found they gave a very hard ride and on the recommendation of members on here I looked into getting smaller rims. In the end, as I needed to replace the front tyres any way I chose to replace the oem Bridgestones with CrossClimates and the change has been like chalk and cheese. Not even significant other complains now 😉

Might be a silly question, but can I check please, is the lumbar support adjustable on the Sportsline seats?

[BTandSid]

2 minutes ago, chieflordy said:

Might be a silly question, but can I check please, is the lumbar support adjustable on the Sportsline seats?

Ours is a 2020 plate with levers on the sides which you use to manually adjust the lumbar support. Not really played around with the drivers seat as it’s been ok since we bought it. Significant Other has recently adjusted hers. 

[nonuffinprof]

Thanks all. BTand SID: I've tried a 1.5 TSI manual and really enjoyed it. I think next step is to test drive a 1.5 auto and see if I feel the same lag as I did in the 1.0. And thanks smipix too: after a while on these forums, you begin to despair of finding any car without issues, but once you know about issues, its hard to forget them! I started out thinking I would just upgrade to another Ford, as my Focus has been absolutely rock solid. But then I started reading about exploding "ecoboom" engines...

[BTandSid]

15 minutes ago, nonuffinprof said:

Thanks all. BTand SID: I've tried a 1.5 TSI manual and really enjoyed it. I think next step is to test drive a 1.5 auto and see if I feel the same lag as I did in the 1.0. And thanks smipix too: after a while on these forums, you begin to despair of finding any car without issues, but once you know about issues, its hard to forget them! I started out thinking I would just upgrade to another Ford, as my Focus has been absolutely rock solid. But then I started reading about exploding "ecoboom" engines...

I don’t think you’ll find any make of car that’s  bulletproof; if you did the other makers would be out of business as everyone would be buying theirs. And even the ‘perfect’ cars will have their owners who’ve had issues.

[nonuffinprof]

Update. I decided to step back from buying for a month or two as prices were so high. They seem to have come down quite significantly now so I'm back looking. I've been round the houses. Nearly bought a Tiguan 1.5 TSI for the extra knee room in the back but was put off by the mpg (honest John quotes real mpg as 32, whereas the same engine in the Karoq achieves 40, figures born out by my test drives) and the rubbish VW main dealer in Leeds. So currently down to two cars: 1) a 69 plate Karoq 1.5 SEL that's done 50k going for £18,000 at my Skoda dealer and 2) a hybrid Honda CRV 19 plate, 58k that's going for £20,000 at a Honda dealer.  I'm guessing everyone here will suggest the Karoq the better choice but I really enjoyed driving both and am slightly seduced by the idea of going hybrid and the extra space/ efficiency on offer in the CRV (real mpg of 45, plus better on city driving, which is most of what we do). On the other hand the heated leather seats in the Karoq felt much more supportive than the CRV seats and the touch screen tech better. Both have rear cameras and parking sensors. Only the Karoq has roof rails, which will no doubt come in handy. I can add roof rails to the CRV, but it's already £2000 more without the rails.

 

The Karoq has the dread DQ200 clutch. The salesman says that it is a wet clutch, which I gather would make it more reliable, but I can't find any evidence on the web that a wet DQ200 exists! He also claims that it is 'not showing as a serviceable item' which suggests to me that it is a dry clutch from what I've read--otherwise it should be serviceable, surely? I'm hoping to take out a two year skoda warranty (free if I take out finance) and then extend it for a further two years, and I'll check (as someone suggested above) that the clutch is covered under this. As Skoda have removed the directive to change the cambelt, I won't worry that the 1.5 is harder/ more expensive to change than the 1.0 (having finally driven both, I definitely prefer the 1.5). As far as I can tell, Skoda are not recommending any change interval at all now, which seems a bit weird. Is there anything I should insist on them checking/ changing before I buy?

 

I'm thinking the Honda probably more reliable in the long run, but I haven't dug as deep. It has a chain rather than a cambelt, and the clutch system doesn't have gears. HJ tells me that "Rather than use a conventional CVT, the kind you'd find with most hybrids, the CR-V has a clever single fixed-gear system, resulting in a smoother transfer of torque". In theory, I think, this should mean less wear/ moving parts.

 

Any thoughts welcome! I very much appreciated the advice I got a couple of months ago! Much will depend on our final test drives later this week. 

 

The Karoq details in case this helps:

 

YK69YEV
TMBKR7N UXL2010434
Karoq SE L 1.5 TSI 150 PS DSG Velvet red metallic Engine number: DPCAC15770

 

 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Is a DQ200 DSG dreaded?   Salespeople with no idea about what they are selling are dreadful and maybe to be avoided.

Ask what the Warranty covers on a Skoda Approved used car, does it cover the DSG, the clutch packs, the MCU or repair or replacement.

Then ask to see that in writing if it does.    Ask the person selling the Honda what their warranty covers and again to see that in writing.

 

A DQ200 is a 7 speed twin dry clutch DSG so there are no wet clutch DQ200 DSG. 

 

Buy what you enjoy driving and suits you comfort wise. 

 

As to Honest John quoting a real 32 mpg,  that will not be what everyone gets as a real mpg but there must be some that get that, and the same goes for the 40 mpg. Was that an average?

 

Because people drive with cars loaded or unloaded and in different ways in different locations.

Edited 3 October, 2023 by toot