15 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Simple @Graham Butcher production plant or recycle plant fires in the scheme of things small fry.   Firing missiles or killing with drones and everyday happening around the world.      People die.  

But they don't have to die if sensible steps are taken, it always the innocent people who suffer and all in the name of greed or power or money, corners get cut, and other people are at severe risk, seldom the perpetrators.

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

But they don't have to die if sensible steps are taken

Risk assessment, mitigation and avoidance are great skills to learn and apply especially when dealing with potentially dangerous or lethal items.

Risk management and dealing with battery related fires are being developed. I think it's safe to assume all fire fighting forces around the world is well aware a different approach is required to fighting battery fire. 

 

Let's not forget there is a lot more accidents during development of fossil fuel... errr... as fuel: 

List of industrial disasters - Wikipedia

What a shame, he claims that the Moss Landing battery fire had nothing to do with Tesla, despite what the media say. If true then he has not helped their cause by displaying video showing row upon row of Tesla storage batteries, so is it true that Tesla batteries weren't to blame, is he just being sloppy and made a mistake with his choice of video as a backdrop or is he being paid handsomely by Tesla to get their name on screen as many times as possible?

 

 

Edited 21 January, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

More bad news for Stellantis, Jeeps are still catching fire even after the recall software updates have installed to cure battery failures. Like Porsche, owners are being told not to park or charge in or close to buildings until software updates, but fires are still happening to cars when parked up.

 

 

^^^ They must be very different from Stallantis Hybrids from there other manufacturers. 

There must be hundreds of thousands of those around Europe and maybe globally. 

A cover-up or claim culture?

 

 

And more incidents.

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

And more incidents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yet car parks show no inclination to limit or perscibe if or where EVs park in car parks.

Recently parke in Luton airport multistorey, where the diesel land-rover started the fire, and no hint of measures.

 

They should have fire suppression systems but few car parks do of course.

 

On 26/10/2024 at 11:22, Graham Butcher said:

No, there is no hidden message, just posted so that people can decide for themselves about the risks associated with EV cars and Tesla's in particular as both of these cars were reported as driving at speed, so were they just speeding, or were the cars in autopilot mode and become rogue, did the electronic door handles also play a part in the deaths as has been mentioned before, particularly with Tesla's that there is no mechanical internal door release mechanism, nor is there is there so it seems, any direct linkage from the external door handles, meaning that in the event of the handles not working, smashing windows is the only option and with those windows being laminated, is harder to do than you might think

 

I have since updated that post with a 2 further video reports.   

I think this is a big deal. I'd be tempted to ensure that all vehicles (EV or not) had a mechanical means of opening the door.

Yes, have your fancy buttons and electric door opening and closing etc, but in an emergency, people need to be able to get out of the vehicle mechanically, not relying on an electronic release.

6 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Recently parke in Luton airport multistorey, where the diesel land-rover started the fire.

The vehicle was in fact a diesel Range Rover Sport, but the fire was electrical. Have you tried setting diesel fuel on fire?

For more than a couple of decades we have cars that anyone double locked in can not even get out of the car without breaking a window or sunroof.

Or anyone in to get them. 

 

Groundhog day here again. 

Does nobody read the threads they pop in and out of, and use the brains they were born with? 

Edited 8 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

To clarify my previous comments relating to the Luton airport car park fire. While diesel vehicles can catch fire getting diesel fuel to actually ignite is far more difficult. There has to be a very high heat source first.

Just saying 

https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/about-us/london-luton-airport-review

 

As a result of the investigation, all evidence points to the most probable cause being an electrical fault or component failure, which started in the engine bay of the vehicle whilst it was in motion. The developing fire spread to other components, and whilst the owner of the vehicle attempted to fight the fire, the vehicle became overrun with flames and spread to other parked vehicles.

 

A few years back a woman stopped her Vauxhall Zafira outside of our house on the way to taking her child to school, she got out of the car with her child and was talking to someone on her phone about a problem with the car. A few moments later the car went up in flames. The fire was caused by a well known fault with the vehicles heater control.   

Nobody is saying that diesel cars don't burn, least of all me, I have already said that I have seen diesel buses catch fire, but as Peter Harding showed in his video it does indeed take a massive about of heat to actually catch fire in the first instance. In the case of diesel dripping onto a hot exhaust pipe, it just tends to evaporate rather quickly than burn. You can have the entire contents of huge diesel fuel taker dumped onto the road surface and there is no risk of streams of fire running along the gutter and into the drains. Try the same trick with a petrol taker and you have a highly undesirable situation of huge explosion and massive fireball as a single spark is enough to set it of.

 

The reason why when there is diesel spillage on the road, that the authorities shut the road, is not because of fire, but the fact that diesel is extremely slippery and they have to recover the road surface  from the effects of the diesel, e.g., massive amounts of sand is used to soak it up and also provide grip to other road users after the worst has been dealt with. You can often see where diesel has been spilled on the road by the sand that the fire brigade or councils spread across the road in order to get the road open again as quickly as possible.

Edited 8 February, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

10 minutes ago, moley said:

A few years back a woman stopped her Vauxhall Zafira outside of our house on the way to taking her child to school, she got out of the car with her child and was talking to someone on her phone about a problem with the car. A few moments later the car went up in flames. The fire was caused by a well known fault with the vehicles heater control.   

Which resulted in 2 recalls as Vauxhall attempted to fix the problem, I had to accompany my brother to the local vehicle dealer twice to get his Zafira sorted.

 

Apparently the heater blower resistor was too close to some sound damping material which then caught fire.

 

23 minutes ago, moley said:

To clarify my previous comments relating to the Luton airport car park fire. While diesel vehicles can catch fire getting diesel fuel to actually ignite is far more difficult. There has to be a very high heat source first.

Just saying 

https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/about-us/london-luton-airport-review

 

As a result of the investigation, all evidence points to the most probable cause being an electrical fault or component failure, which started in the engine bay of the vehicle whilst it was in motion. The developing fire spread to other components, and whilst the owner of the vehicle attempted to fight the fire, the vehicle became overrun with flames and spread to other parked vehicles.

 

A few years back a woman stopped her Vauxhall Zafira outside of our house on the way to taking her child to school, she got out of the car with her child and was talking to someone on her phone about a problem with the car. A few moments later the car went up in flames. The fire was caused by a well known fault with the vehicles heater control.   

As a footnote, if the car park had proper fire suppression system and wider bays to reflect the modern car sizes, then the overall severity of the fire would have greatly reduced and may even have been restricted to just a few cars on the same floor. In any case with EV cars, because of the way that their batteries vent in the event of battery problems, the bays need to be wider to allow for the jets of fire that shoot out sideways.

Edited 8 February, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

As a footnote, if the car park had proper fire suppression system and wider bays to reflect the modern car sizes, then the overall severity of the fire would have greatly reduced and may even have been restricted to just a few cars on the same floor. In any case with EV cars, because of the way that their batteries vent in the event of battery problems, the bays need to be wider to allow for the jets of fire that shoot out sideways.

The car at Luton had not actually parked in a bay as the driver stopped when driving in the carpark due to the fault.

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

For more than a couple of decades we have cars that anyone double locked in can not even get out of the car without breaking a window or sunroof.

Or anyone in to get them. 

 

Agreed, but they should not ever be double locked in, which is only possible from outside the car is it not? With passengers in the car, even if the central door locking system ahs been manually or in the event of some cars, automatically after reaching 10mph, the occupants inside the car should be able to unlock their door normally by pulling the handle twice I think? What it does do is prevent them being opened externally.

6 minutes ago, moley said:

The car at Luton had not actually parked in a bay as the driver stopped when driving in the carpark due to the fault.

While this is true, he did stop close to other cars already parked in bays, facing out and the flames from his car were being fanned into the engine bays of the other cars, so may be a petrol engine had its fuel line melted and then their would be petrol flowing across the floor of the park, on fire and spreading it. Fact is we will never know 100% for sure, but adequate fire suppression systems would have been a great help and bigger fire gaps between cars.

The point about diesel being more difficult to set alight is very relevant.

But then the amount of diesel vehicles that have been on fire is not insignifecant.

Even if set on fire on purpose using an accelerant like petrol, or just electrical issues, the battery or something else.  Like the Skoda's members on here have had go on fire but not total losses. Well write offs, but not destroyed.

 

@Graham Butcher   Yes the key fob needs used to double lock, or the keyless walk away.

& no not all can be opened from inside with the handle.

 

You have a Skoda, try locking someone in it.

 

?

Any figures yet for EV,s on fire in the UK so far into 2025?

Or fatalities in EV fires in 2024.

 

 

Edited 8 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Risk it for a biscuit. 

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

The point about diesel being more difficult to set alight is very relevant.

But then the amount of diesel vehicles that have been on fire is not insignifecant.

Even if set on fire on purpose using an accelerant like petrol, or just electrical issues, the battery or something else.  Like the Skoda's members on here have had go on fire but not total losses. Well write offs, but not destroyed.

 

@Graham Butcher   Yes the key fob needs used to double lock, or the keyless walk away.

& no not all can be opened from inside with the handle.

 

You have a Skoda, try locking someone in it.

 

?

Any figures yet for EV,s on fire in the UK so far into 2025?

Or fatalities in EV fires in 2024.

 

 

All true but in a lot of car fires, the diesel is not actively involved in the fire, it will be recorded as a diesel car, but does not mean that diesel either caused the fire nor involved in it. Just as I have always said that most fires are caused by poor electrics (DIY) etc, cigarettes etc regardless of the type of fuel used for power. 

 

However it cannot be denied that the hazards of EVs are far more significant if its fuel ie, battery become involved then is true for ICE vehicles. 

 

As to data you ask about re fires, I have not yet seen any and would welcome it if anybody else has. 

@Graham Butcher  Are there any deniers.  Are they half daft, & who are they? 

 

What there are is lots of people that are very very very concerned about the issue.    

Holy camoly they are worked up!    

What a pity anything they say or do makes not a jot of difference to how things are being done.

What is confusing @Graham Butcher   You said that 'it can not be denied.....'   I asked who is denying?

 

 

EV-fire-risk_report.pdf

Edited 8 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

@Ootoherethe confused emoji was because I had no issue with your first statement but I took the second part as more of mocking me and others for our concerns, maybe that is what you intended, but, that is how it comes across.

 

That EV fire risk report is not a balanced report at all coming as it does with a vested interest in pushing the EV case forward, both in its figures for risk of an EV fire v ICE fire, it beggars belief when you look at the massive amounts of cars either recalled or even being purchased back and being scrapped, all because of the risk of the battery catching fire and then potential risks and hazard that itself presents.

 

That report also suggests that and EV fire poses no more risk to life and or structures or dare I say any more difficult to extinguish, I call that pure BS. Ask the first responders they will tell that is pure BS as well. I don't intend to repeat what I've said previously but when you have fire brigades the world over singing from the same hymn sheet, then I'd tend to listen them as they get to these events up close and personal and have to deal with the aftermath and consequences of such fires.

 

Have you also noticed what word appears at the foot of each page? Confidential is that word, it is even intended for publication, probably because they are aware that it will be torn to shreds.  

Edited 8 February, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher