Gearbox oil changing 1.4 tdi

[Kelly_Heroes]

The gearbox oil comes up as fully synthetic. There seems to be 2 options 75w80 or 75w90?

 

How much does the gearbox require from empty to full?

 

There a guide where the topping up gear oil is and gear oil level?

 

I always like to change the gearbox oil as it's something a lot of people don't know about or change.

 

Skoda fabia 1.4 tdi

 

Thanks

Edited 21 December, 2023 by Kelly_Heroes

[Kelly_Heroes]

Do we have any answers to follow this up when people get a chance thanks.

[Kelly_Heroes]

On 29/12/2023 at 10:40, Kelly_Heroes said:

Do we have any answers to follow this up when people get a chance thanks.

..

[sepulchrave]

Changing gearbox oil is completely unnecessary.

 

However since you seem 'emotionally' determined there is a threaded plug on the side of the gearbox which serves both as a filling point as well as a level guide, basically you put oil in until it comes back out, then replace the plug. Topping up is all you need to do since the oil that is already in it will be perfectly usable.

 

It's been mentioned on here so many times it's tedious but gearbox oil does not 'age' and 'go off' because it's in a sealed environment inside the gearbox, it doesn't get pumped, hot or contaminated, it just splashes about a bit, any fine metallic particles simply sink to the bottom where they remain undisturbed in perpetuity.

Old gearbox oil is just as effective a lubricant as new gearbox oil.

[Kelly_Heroes]

On 07/01/2024 at 13:05, sepulchrave said:

Changing gearbox oil is completely unnecessary.

 

However since you seem 'emotionally' determined there is a threaded plug on the side of the gearbox which serves both as a filling point as well as a level guide, basically you put oil in until it comes back out, then replace the plug. Topping up is all you need to do since the oil that is already in it will be perfectly usable.

 

It's been mentioned on here so many times it's tedious but gearbox oil does not 'age' and 'go off' because it's in a sealed environment inside the gearbox, it doesn't get pumped, hot or contaminated, it just splashes about a bit, any fine metallic particles simply sink to the bottom where they remain undisturbed in perpetuity.

Old gearbox oil is just as effective a lubricant as new gearbox oil.

I've had 3 gear boxes go in the past due to the gear oil going thick and old. I always change the gear oil since then 20 years later all gear boxes I've had so far have been fine.

 

You get problems changing gears either colder weather or hotter weather which I get sometimes. I notice the difference straight away if you change the oil at this point. It fixes this problem but if you leave it the gearbox will go as in the past 3 of them.

[sepulchrave]

2 hours ago, Kelly_Heroes said:

I've had 3 gear boxes go in the past due to the gear oil going thick and old. I always change the gear oil since then 20 years later all gear boxes I've had so far have been fine.

 

You get problems changing gears either colder weather or hotter weather which I get sometimes. I notice the difference straight away if you change the oil at this point. It fixes this problem but if you leave it the gearbox will go as in the past 3 of them.

 

Modern synthetic lubricants do not change like that over time, if your gearbox is getting 'baulky' this could be a sign that the oil level has dropped, simply topping it up will fix the problem unless the synchro rings are worn in which case nothing will replace the missing metal and any improvement will be through the placebo effect.

[nta16]

My personal experience is that changing the gearbox oil as a preventative and improvement measure does help, obviously it can't do much when things have gone too far for that other perhaps buy a little more time.

 

As put if you have problems it might be other gearbox causes, or other than the gearbox, or in addition to the gearbox. 

 

From Millers Oils data base for 2006 Fabia 1.4 TDI (51kw)

• XF Premium MTF 75w - https://www.millersoils.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/8374-XF-Premium-MTF-75w-5.pdf
• (my preference for the effort as I only want to fart about on cars as little as possible and my time is much more valuable than any VW car, get it on some special offer somewhere) - EE Performance MTF 75w - https://www.millersoils.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/8327-EE-Performance-MTF-75w-1.pdf

If you want to go Yankee-doddle-dandy, from Opie Oils database, and it gives a second number if you're worried about that, and it has a VW number if you want to follow VW dictates. - https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-85488-valvoline-gear-oil-75w-80.aspx?variantid=134455

 

Or you could buy any cheap basic GL-4, 75w-80 you can find.

 

Or you could take it easy on the gearbox and gear changes and nurse it along for as long as possible, might be a good while if you're lucky.

 

 

Do check any information you get from a bloke on the internet and cross reference any information from any source, all databases have errors and omissions including oil blenders and oil suppliers and car manufacturers.

 

Get two 1 litre bottles, as you probably already know how much goes in also depends on how much you get out, if the oil in the gearbox is warm or hot you usually get more out and less old residue left in to dilute any effects the new fresh oil might be able to give.  I tip a little warmed fresh new oil in at the end of the drain as a little flush for last gearbox dregs its reasonably possible to get out.

 

Good luck let us know how you get on and perhaps a further follow-up in 6-months or a year, or when the box gets worse.

 

[nta16]

ETA: I forgot to put checking the oil level and topping up if required is a very good first step.  If you have the car level and the gearbox oil cold and some runs or drips out when you remove the level/filler plug as I've often found I take it as being full or perhaps even over-full at that point.

 

And one 1 litre bottle might be enough even for a refill but do you really want to be short on parts and materials once you've start a job.

 

[sepulchrave]

18 minutes ago, nta16 said:

...as you probably already know how much goes in also depends on how much you get out, if the oil in the gearbox is warm or hot you usually get more out and less old residue left in to dilute any effects the new fresh oil might be able to give.  I tip a little warmed fresh new oil in at the end of the drain as a little flush for last gearbox dregs its reasonably possible to get out.

 

This is ritual magic, not science and engineering!

 

Gearbox oil cannot get diluted or contaminated, it doesn't oxidise or get thicker either it just sits there getting lightly splashed about. The level only drops if there's a leak somewhere, usually the the input shaft oil seal if the bearing starts to fail.

 

You guys are just inventing a reality to suit your beliefs, gearbox oil USED to be terrible back in the bad old days before synthetics, it hasn't been like that for a long time which is why VW say lifetime fill.

[J.R.]

Hear-hear!

 

I have just been showing the love to my 60 year (at least) old Villiers MK15 engined plate compactor after the person who borrowed it for a decade committed some terrible bodges to it like welding the pulley to the vibrator shaft when the pulley bolt went AWOL and the keyway opened out not even realising that the 100mm bearing inside had broken up and the shaft was spinning inside the inner race and probably has for decades.

 

Anyway it took a lot of remedial work & finally some carburettor work, tappets and tuning by ear.

 

I ran out of monograde SAE30 oil years ago so just top it up with whatever multigrade is around, it drinks like a Pole!

 

It has no oil pump, just splash lubrication, the OHV valvegear is lubricated by oil vapour condensing by the breather and dripping down 2 inverted cones cast in the valve cover above the rockers.

 

Today I thought about draining the 60 year old Triggers Broom oil and giving it its first ever oil change but decided against it, like a gearbox as Sep said any contaminants drop to the bottom, no different to the unfiltered but crystal clear well water that I drink every day.

[nta16]

Really sepulchrave, you've bothered again, you really do flatter and honour us poor humble misguided children with your attention. 😉

 

I never realised you were also a Certified Lubrication Specialist and scientist why you've been shy about mentioning this before I can't understanding given your expertise in all other matters.  Please tell us about the oil only being 100% oil and nothing else, any old oil will do so I can't understand VW engineers ever bothering with their numbers, but engineers do love numbers, them being scientific like.  😉

 

If the OP and I want to change the oil in the gearbox why do you care, I put what I PERSONALLY do not that I'm a Certified Lubrication Specialist or a scientist or an engineer, and it's not like a scientist or gawd forbid an engineer has ever got something wrong or misunderstood. 

 

Do you need to visit Specsavers, you seem to have misread or misunderstood what I'd put, but possibly just lazy skim-reading and usual shorthand standard reply, I deserve no more.  

 

Prey do tell us enlighten us to what the lifetime of the gearbox is according to VW, engineers, no less, seems to be only until the warranty runs out and then any problem would probably be because of the car owner, perhaps putting in a non-VW light bulb in a sidelight.

 

I offered alternatives to consider other than changing the gearbox oil and stated that changing the gearbox oil wouldn't help under a number of circumstances.

 

You know changing the oil won't ever help so - if the OP drains the oil he will see and feel it's pristine, he'll feel a little foolish and tip it back into the gearbox, get a refund on the oil he's bought, return here and praise you as he should and admonish me for suggesting or forcing him to bother trying to change the oil with my  ritual magic beliefs.  I will throw a few chicken bones southwards at midnight in your honour. :deepbowing:

 

Edited 15 January by nta16
spelling

[sepulchrave]

7 hours ago, nta16 said:

Really sepulchrave, you've bothered again, you really do flatter and honour us poor humble misguided children with your attention. 😉

 

I never realised you were also a Certified Lubrication Specialist and scientist why you've been shy about mentioning this before I can't understanding given your expertise in all other matters.  Please tell us about the oil only being 100% oil and nothing else, any old oil will do so I can't understand VW engineers ever bothering with their numbers, but engineers do love numbers, them being scientific like.  😉

 

If the OP and I want to change the oil in the gearbox why do you care, I put what I PERSONALLY do not that I'm a Certified Lubrication Specialist or a scientist or an engineer, and it's not like a scientist or gawd forbid an engineer has ever got something wrong or misunderstood. 

 

Do you need to visit Specsavers, you seem to have misread or misunderstood what I'd put, but possibly just lazy skim-reading and usual shorthand standard reply, I deserve no more.  

 

Prey do tell us enlighten us to what the lifetime of the gearbox is according to VW, engineers, no less, seems to be only until the warranty runs out and then any problem would probably be because of the car owner, perhaps putting in a non-VW light bulb in a sidelight.

 

I offered alternatives to consider other than changing the gearbox oil and stated that changing the gearbox oil wouldn't help under a number of circumstances.

 

You know changing the oil won't ever help so - if the OP drains the oil he will see and feel it's pristine, he'll feel a little foolish and tip it back into the gearbox, get a refund on the oil he's bought, return here and praise you as he should and admonish me for suggesting or forcing him to bother trying to change the oil with my  ritual magic beliefs.  I will throw a few chicken bones southwards at midnight in your honour. :deepbowing:

 

I don't care, it's not like you're going to do any harm unless you mess it up and cross-thread the drain plug but it doesn't make sense and I'm duty bound to point out when things don't make sense in case others read the posts and think that of all the millions of VW's still on the road, theirs is the only one that hasn't had its gearbox oil changed.

 

Anecdotal evidence is only acceptable when the sample size is significant!

[nta16]

3 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

and I'm duty bound to point out when things don't make sense in case others read the posts and think that of all the millions of VW's still on the road, theirs is the only one that hasn't had its gearbox oil changed.

Duty bound, as an engineer or scientist, wearing your underpants on the outside as the hero you are.

It's fine that you put your side but why do you have to be so demeaning in doing it, the rubbish about ritual magic - btw you must be having a fantastic day as I will threw my best quality chicken bones southwards at midnight in your honour.

 

3 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

Anecdotal evidence is only acceptable when the sample size is significant!

Scientifically correct but you're not going to hear any more, if there are any, if you stamp all out and ripping the ****.  What did you think of that long anecdote about anon-VW engine, personally I liked it but strictly speaking it broke the rules you both impose, I'm not clever like you both but isn't that an example of hypocrisy by it being posted and you not complaining at it, but I might have all this wrong, I'm not an engineer after all.

 

If you want or need the use of the word residue explain in my previous post just ask, I have followed your previous advice and not worried too much about the exact words and wording of my posts.

 

I find it hard to accept that you could be in Brighton and the people there put up with you, you must be different, or present as being different, to how you often post here.

 

Toodle-pip old boy.

 

[Paws4Thot]

5 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

Anecdotal evidence is only acceptable when the sample size is significant

Is a recommendation from ZF Transmission:-

1. A recommendation from qualified transmission engineers
2. Anecdata of significant sample size
3. Ignored because I'm quoting other people quoting ZF?

[maccy]

In the late 60’s I worked for ZF on gearboxes ranging from F1 Lotus to 6 forwards and 6 reverse huge railway equipment gearboxes,and I can assure everyone that although the majority only had worn out bearings due to huge mileages,gearboxes however are only as good as the their owners,I once stripped a coach box that had a weird oil mixture put in it,and when I removed the lid you could not see the gears as the oil had turned to a mega thick plasticky paste and the gears were turning inside it.Strangely enough there wasn’t that much damage,mostly just worn out bearings,the original fault was that the driver had difficulty changing gear ! I could only assume that the owners had put an additive in the oil to try to help with the gear-changing problem and there had been a reaction causing the oil to turn to glue.So changing oil is not all bad all of the time,and if it makes the owner of the vehicle feel better ,why not ?

[nta16]

That also covers a point that was in my mind, how long has Kelly_Heroes owned the car, was it a perhaps a pre-existing problem before his ownership, even perhaps covered up by the seller, perhaps even by a nasty dodgy mechanic or engineer (very rare to find either I know but they do exist).

 

Goes on to other questions that aren't allowed if the only point of threads is to only answer the thread tittle, but to get more information to perhaps get at the cause and rectify or work round and live with it.

 

I'm not a good driver so my cars need ore protection than the cars owned by those with great knowledge, who might or might not be no better at driving than me.

 

[sepulchrave]

I had not meant my tongue-in-cheek remarks to be taken so seriously.

 

When I said I don't care, I meant I don't care if you guys change the oil or not since it can't do any harm.

 

In my opinion it's a waste of time, effort and money but if it gives you peace of mind then go right ahead.

 

Just don't make it a recommendation that everyone does it since millions of VW manual gearboxes are in daily use at extreme mileages despite never having had an oil change. The vast majority of cars that get scrapped go to the scrappy with a perfectly serviceable gearbox in them because such periodic maintenance is simply not necessary.

 

In the bad old days of EP80 etc. it was a completely different matter, oil changes were necessary because polymer chain lengths in natural mineral stock were hopeless. Synthetics have engineered molecules and clever additive packs and are a massive leap forwards.

[aubrey]

My old manual 1.9pd Roomster started having a crunch when selecting 2nd gear. Not every time but it started to become more regular, and kind of expected.

So I changed the gearbox oil and the crunch immediately stopped.

I guess in retrospec I didn't change it for no reason, but 100% it made a difference.

I used Fuchs Titan Sintofluid FE SAE75W. Maybe the oil was a different spec to the original, I have no idea but 100% the crunch immediately stopped and never returned for all the years afterwards I owned that car.

[J.R.]

49 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

The vast majority of cars that get scrapped go to the scrappy with a perfectly serviceable gearbox in them

 

And with the original factory fitted oil.

 

My MK1 Octavia did with 325000 miles on the clock, those since 188K when I got the car were very abusive at times towing several times the vehicles towing limit.

 

One time with a load that even exceeded my lack of prudence and which gave me the biggest every brown trouser moment on the M25/M20 junction I carried on from Calais on the empty back roads after midnight, now the hills there are not exactly the alps but with the load I had it was like driving a loaded artic through the alps, max throttle and lots of gearshifting, at one point the gearbox started whining and groaning nastily, I said to myself I would have to replace the oil ASAP and dependent on what came out probably have to rebuild the gearbox.

 

Once on the level again the noise diminished but was still present, back home and uncoupled doing its normal semi abusive trips for building materials it was quiet once again and I never ever did change the gearbox oil.

 

I intend keeping the Yeti for ever, I am all for sensible preventative maintenance but I will not be changing the gearbox oil unless I hear bearing noise, I am gentle on syncromesh with my gearchanges, the gearbox like most other VAG ones has double synchros, if ever there is baulking or crunching of gearchanges no oil in the world is going to remedy it.

 

In fact draining out all the oil would increase the friction between the synchroniser cones and the gear taper which would decrease the crunching at the cost of the rest of the gearbox.

Edited 16 January by J.R.

[aubrey]

7 minutes ago, J.R. said:

if ever there is baulking or crunching of gearchanges no oil in the world is going to remedy it.

Interesting comment after what I just said occured on my Roomster. At the time I did the oil change because others had said similar, it was often always 2nd gear too.

[nta16]

@sepulchrave do get your Euro numbers on before you forget, don't miss out, as the magic power of my best quality chicken bones that I threw southwards at midnight in your honour only lasts 24 hours.

 

You have given that excuse sorry, explanation a few time now but again I'll give you the benefit of doubt and accept it (again) cus I think basically you seem a decent sort ,and you do make me laugh and smile (perhaps I'm being selfish to the others).  Only the other day I read that "dude" comment and it brought a lump to my throat (and I do mean throat).

 

And I agree a lot of times changing the gear oil is a waste of time, effort and money for very many, perhaps even more so for the later models than the earlier models, and that millions of cars go to the, now, recycling places with the factory oil in the factory original gearboxes.

 

You may not have noticed my subtle changes to accommodate stricter attitudes like yours (and correct some of the very sloppy langue/words I use, plenty more gets missed but I don't worry too much, as advised) but I can't disagree with anyone putting any recommendations they want (subject to Site rules) as you, I and anyone else can put our contra view based on knowledge, experience ,science (whenever has that changed or been wrong) or whatever, within the rules of the Site.

 

You might want to swat up more, or you might already know, on synthetics and on additives packages what I call wear and of course there are large or huge diminishing returns based all the variables and based on needs/wants/expectations of car ownership, use, etc., etc..

 

In the artic anecdote perhaps a better quality oil might have made the box quieter or to take more abuse and/or for longer, but I would say that wouldn't I, and whatever oil was in there the box survived and survived on so has served it's purpose so far.  Higher mileage boxes perhaps sometimes has less stress than low mileage, especially with some drivers, but there's lots of variables of course.

 

Now, get those numbers on.

 

[J.R.]

3 hours ago, aubrey said:

Interesting comment after what I just said occured on my Roomster. At the time I did the oil change because others had said similar, it was often always 2nd gear too.

 

If you understand how synchromesh works and specifically the interaction of the baulk ring, synchroniser cone and synchro hub then would you explain how you believe that replacing old gearbox oil with fresh would prevent "crunching" (your word), if not then perhaps a more detailed description of what said crunching is, sound, feel etc, at what point it happens, up or downshifts and does it prevent gear selection.

Edited 16 January by J.R.

[aubrey]

15 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Then would you explain how you believe that replacing old gearbox oil with fresh would prevent "crunching" (your word)

The only explanation that I have is that is what occured. I only tried the change gearbox oil as I was reading quite a few posts on it.

 

Such as this one I just found via Google:

 

So I hear what your saying, but all I can respond is it worked for me, and from what I read back then others too.

PS That's just one post out of a few around that time. I'm sure you could find more.

 

All I can report is what occured and what oil I used. I can't say was the gearbox fully filled before, I didn't measure the amount drained. Was that oil I used a different viscosity to the original.

Just don't think I'm lying, I'm simply reporting what occured.

 

[J.R.]

I didn't for a second think that, I did however consider that what you describe as a crunch might be different to where I would use it to describe when a synchro ring is worn and the gearchange has been subsequently forced past the baulk function rounding off the castellations (best word I could find to describe them) allowing non synchronised gearchanges where the crunch is the castellations on the gear and synchro hub clacking against each other at different rotational speeds, not the actual gears as commonly believed because they are in constant mesh.

 

Synchromesh relies on friction to function and the ability of the ridges on the unworn synchro tapered cone being able to cut through the shear resistance of the gear oil hence a newer oil making things worse for worn synchromesh.

 

On the modern dual synchro cone gearboxes you would have to really abuse the gearbox over a very long period of time before the syncromesh would start to fail, like driving with a non releasing clutch for a couple of months.

[J.R.]

I read through the attached thread about the 2007 Roomsters where there was a TPI for synchro issues, the OP spoke of "grumbling" and not "crunching" and also it was on upshifts, worn synchros manifest far more on downshifts.

 

I believe that the change of oil was to a thinner oil which means there is less drag opposing the synchro trying to accelerate or decelerate the layshaft.

Edited 17 January by J.R.