10 hours ago, SuperbTWM said:

The added benefit of having the manouvre braking  is also a fantastic addition for those 1 in a million times you have a lapse in concentration. Can you imagine how many times a car gets reversed into every day in the UK that this feature would prevent if it was implemented on every car. It would save millions.

The manouver braking has saved my rear bumper couple times, and only for this, is worth having.

 

Yes, is also a nuisance because I am currently using a very very tight garage for which I need several manouvers with very limited space around, and the system does intervene more often than I would like. Then again, I have been parking almost daily there since years with only a scuff to a bumper and a mirror (not in the Superb), but the system designer does not know that .... 😝

All very interesting this, and haven't received the verbal slaughtering I was expecting either! Thank you.

 

As stated, including yesterdays alarming incident, this has happened twice now in 20 months of ownership of this 2016 model.

Both times it's been damp, very yesterday, and both times the brakes have come on quite violently, accompanied with the ABS kicking in banging noise. 

Both occasions very similar, with the car in front braking and then  turning left with me doing approx 25mph with what I consider to be a safe and reasonable distance between us.

 

Had enough of this now, as this is clearly an issue for the possibility of the car being rear ended, so going to see my now ex Skoda master tech in his own garage, and ask him for advice and to see if he can go into the menu's to possibly disable it as suggested.

 

Don't want to sell this car, as it has been absolutely brilliant in virtually every other aspect, but I'm finding this feature an absolute nightmare and great liabilty.

I DON'T need or want a computer enforcing and over riding my driving style.

 

I DO appreciate, as one person has already stated, that it can and does have its uses in the right circumstances.

 

There is a calibration procedure for it I believe so there is something they can check. 

Today, I've been into the 'car' menu, driver aids, and have turned off everything that was enabled apart from the nearly useless blind spot warning orange thing that lights up on the mirrors. Should know what's coming up alongside you anyway if you're concentrating. Hope this solves the problem

4 hours ago, Adenuf said:

nearly useless blind spot warning orange thing that lights up on the mirrors

A mate of mine had  a Range Rover. The BSWS on it once made a point of warning him that he was being overtaken by (or overtaking) various bits of farm machinery at a dealership he was visiting!

It does make us 'older ones' wonder sometimes, just how the hell did we survive back in the 1960's/70's 80's.

I drove with no ABS or Traction control and skinny tyres and sometimes with more power than the car had when built but not many with 150 bhp or more.

**** head lights but sometimes spot lights fitted. The exact same back roads as i drive now and not really any faster then from now.

I drove like a car d!cker & crashed a few times but survived and never killed anyone. 

58 minutes ago, Adenuf said:

It does make us 'older ones' wonder sometimes, just how the hell did we survive back in the 1960's/70's 80's.

You and I survived, but quite a lot of people didn't. The aim of the various driver assistance devices is to increase the number of people surviving in the future.

 

I have an aviation background and when aircraft automation first came in, the old and bold pilots resented it. Especially in an emergency situation, they wanted to be the big important hero guy manhandling the flight controls. They resented some computer doing it for them. But history has shown that they crashed quite a lot, whereas after the introduction and acceptance of aircraft automation, accident rates were substantially reduced. Of course competent use of the automation requires training, and that is probably where the problem arises with automation in cars - there is no training on how to monitor the automation, or even how it works or more importanly how it behaves.

 

For example I suspect a lot of people don't realise that whilst if you have ACC engaged and the car in front slow down, your car will brake as necessary (up to a maximum braking limit), whereas if you come round a corner and encounter stationary cars ahead, it won't brake and will plough straight into them. This is the sort of thing that ought at the very least to be highlighted in the manuals - but even then, lots of people don't read the manuals! So really, there should be mandatory training on how a car's driver-assistance systems behave, just as there is for aircraft. Never going to happen, I know!

45 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

....... but even then, lots of people don't read the manuals! .......

The manuals mostly are not printed these days.  The punter is expected to navigate off into the bowels of a Skoda website and try to find same.  Not only that but doing the same thing a month later may very well produce a different "version" of the manual.

Manuals are horrendous. I thought 'PROPER' blokes never read them anyway!😂

 

I think I've managed most of the features within the car, all by just trial and error, and general fiddlin' around.

Always worked on the assumption that you can't break it, so just twiddle and press away.

Edited 20 December, 20241 yr by Adenuf

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

You and I survived, but quite a lot of people didn't. The aim of the various driver assistance devices is to increase the number of people surviving in the future.

 

I have an aviation background and when aircraft automation first came in, the old and bold pilots resented it. Especially in an emergency situation, they wanted to be the big important hero guy manhandling the flight controls. They resented some computer doing it for them. But history has shown that they crashed quite a lot, whereas after the introduction and acceptance of aircraft automation, accident rates were substantially reduced. Of course competent use of the automation requires training, and that is probably where the problem arises with automation in cars - there is no training on how to monitor the automation, or even how it works or more importanly how it behaves.

 

For example I suspect a lot of people don't realise that whilst if you have ACC engaged and the car in front slow down, your car will brake as necessary (up to a maximum braking limit), whereas if you come round a corner and encounter stationary cars ahead, it won't brake and will plough straight into them. This is the sort of thing that ought at the very least to be highlighted in the manuals - but even then, lots of people don't read the manuals! So really, there should be mandatory training on how a car's driver-assistance systems behave, just as there is for aircraft. Never going to happen, I know!

I'd far rather see much more stringent actual on hands stringent compulsory driver training.....like skid control on a skid pan

 

For instance, I was marshalling on the Grizedale Stages rally last December ('23) and the event had to be cancelled mid morning due to the most horrendous snow storm, making the stage impassable.

Then came the major , almost military style operation of getting everyone back out from the forest.

6 hours and 2 miles to get out , mainly due to a few having absolutely no idea really on how to drive in treacherous conditions. Going downhill was the most challenging, with several just slamming on the brakes when they started to slide, with the inevitable to follow, blocking the track for everyone else whilst long winded recovery took place from within the trees ditches and undergrowth, and then another 3 hours to drive on the public highway to Newby Bridge, a mere 10 miles away with the same problems.

 

I was in my Fabia vRS with winter tyres, and even that struggled, but made it eventually with no damage fortunately. 

What a day that REALLY was!

Edited 20 December, 20241 yr by Adenuf

39 minutes ago, Adenuf said:

I'd far rather see much more stringent actual on hands stringent compulsory driver training.....like skid control on a skid pan

 

For instance, I was marshalling on the Grizedale Stages rally last December ('23) and the event had to be cancelled mid morning due to the most horrendous snow storm, making the stage impassable.

Then came the major , almost military style operation of getting everyone back out from the forest.

6 hours and 2 miles to get out , mainly due to a few having absolutely no idea really on how to drive in treacherous conditions. Going downhill was the most challenging, with several just slamming on the brakes when they started to slide, with the inevitable to follow, blocking the track for everyone else whilst long winded recovery took place from within the trees ditches and undergrowth, and then another 3 hours to drive on the public highway to Newby Bridge, a mere 10 miles away with the same problems.

 

I was in my Fabia vRS with winter tyres, and even that struggled, but made it eventually with no damage fortunately. 

What a day that REALLY was!

Ah yes this is exactly the old and bold pilot in you coming out! We must always drive manually, the computer is the enemy!
 

In order to identify the best use of training time one should look at the accident statistics and direct training accordingly. I don’t think you will find an inability to control a car during an off road rally stage, is a major cause of road accidents! And skidpan training is good but somewhat reduced in need with the advent of ABS.
 

Many years ago I was driving uphill on a RH bend on a country road on ice. My old Saab 900 was pretty good in icy roads. But coming the other way down hill appeared a 4x4 thing slowly spinning around and on a trajectory to collide with me. I noticed that none of the wheels were revolving! Driver looking horrified with foot stomped hard on the brake as it spun. Fortunately I managed to time a bounce onto the verge up the bank and just missed it.

 

But it’s the same as aviation - manual flying (driving) skills need to be trained and preserved, but equally use of automation ditto. So the overall training burden is increased by having automation - but so is safety.

4 hours ago, Adenuf said:

if you come round a corner and encounter stationary cars ahead, it won't brake and will plough straight into them. This is the sort of thing that ought at the very least to be highlighted in the manuals - but even then, lots of people don't read the manuals!

 

I disagree, it's the drivers responsibility to be in control of the vehicle at all times and to be aware of what is in front, behind, road conditions, upcoming junctions, other vehicles, pedestrians etc and to brake to avoid any collisions, far too many are abdicating control and their own responsibility to the vehicles systems, a good example of that is people who no longer dip their headlights because the car supposedly does that and complain that the people flashing them are not being blinded, they just think that they are because they don't understand that their car has this wonderful system to prevent it.

51k and nearly 10 years for me and only activated once and I'm bloody glad it did saved me me some embarrassment !

On 18/12/2024 at 22:26, nicknorman said:

My experience is that when the system needs to apply the brakes hard, it can do so up to a point, but if more braking is required to avoid a collision, the big red emergency brake splash logo appears on the dashboard display, along with a “bing” sound. It’s up to the driver to stomp the brake pedal. Or to press the throttle if it is a spurious activation.

 

I believe you are right. The car does give you a chance to take action, it can even pre-charge the braking system to make it work more like an on/off switch to further increase your chances of slowing down in time but if you don't take that chance and it thinks there is still going to be a collision, you can bet your life it will slam on for you 100%

 

From VW:

If the front assist system determines that the distance is too close and there is potential for a crash, it alerts you with a warning in the instrument cluster coupled with a warning chime and prepares the brakes for emergency braking. If you don’t respond to the warning, the front assist system briefly applies the brake, jolting the car to warn you of an imminent collision. If you don’t press the brake hard enough, front assist can automatically apply the brakes with the additional necessary force to slow the vehicle down and help avoid a collision. If you don't brake at all, front assist steps in and activates automatic emergency braking to fully stop the vehicle and avoid a crash, or at least substantially lessen the effects of a collision within the limits of the system.

Edited 20 December, 20241 yr by SuperbTWM

41 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

 

I believe you are right. The car does give you a chance to take action, it can even pre-charge the braking system to make it work more like an on/off switch to further increase your chances of slowing down in time but if you don't take that chance and it thinks there is still going to be a collision, you can bet your life it will slam on for you 100%

 

From VW:

If the front assist system determines that the distance is too close and there is potential for a crash, it alerts you with a warning in the instrument cluster coupled with a warning chime and prepares the brakes for emergency braking. If you don’t respond to the warning, the front assist system briefly applies the brake, jolting the car to warn you of an imminent collision. If you don’t press the brake hard enough, front assist can automatically apply the brakes with the additional necessary force to slow the vehicle down and help avoid a collision. If you don't brake at all, front assist steps in and activates automatic emergency braking to fully stop the vehicle and avoid a crash, or at least substantially lessen the effects of a collision within the limits of the system.

That’s interesting, probably I have never let it get to the latter stages quoted. What is not mentioned is whether pressing the throttle overrides the whole process. In my experience it does, and certainly in now 120,000 miles in two different equipped cars, I have never had an automatic maximum braking event.

43 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

That’s interesting, probably I have never let it get to the latter stages quoted. 

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

What a nice topic this has turned out to be, great input and stories ... very informative 😉

Just my 2 pennies worth but in the specific condition described in the OP, the car in front is slowing to almost a standstill and turning into a side street. 

 

Front assist does not anticipate the behaviour of the car in front, it only looks at the information presented to it, the car in front is stopping & you are driving towards it.

 

In the UK it's quite common to brush past the back of the car Infront when it's turning because you as the driver know it will continue to turn. 

 

In Europe a driver turning into a side street does not have right of way over a pedestrian and can often stop before entering the junction. 

You must think of the system with this kind of manoeuvre in mind.

 

Also, from a manufacturer point of view, there is nothing dangerous about braking sharply in any conditions.

It's the driver behind who is at fault if they hit you because they must maintain a safe stopping distance from the car in front in the event of such an emergency stop. 

 

Whilst in real life this will obviously cause problems e.g. on a motorway or busy road, the manufacturers are covered by the road regulations given to them & for them it would be more serious if they hit a pedestrian rather than someone else his the back of you.

4 hours ago, Gabbo said:

manufacturers are covered by the road regulations given to them & for them it would be more serious if they hit a pedestrian rather than someone else his the back of you.

 

If that is really true then IMO it is wrong to hold the manufacturers and not the driver responsible and sends out a very wrong message, its why you get idiots in the USA suing the car manufacturers because they chose to go to sleep with the vehicle in self driving mode or go to the back of an RV to make a drink leavig it under cruise control.

Skoda / VW Group need lots more arse covering than just warnings.

 

They as a corporation are building and delivering vehicles for sale with known issues, fundamental design, engineering, hardware or software and being left in no doubt that customers are finding them unsafe.

They keep on delivering them to Dealerships regardless and these are going on the roads.   This is nothing new, they do it model after model.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/528880-skoda-want=my-kodiaq-for-3-months-to-fix-it

 

I have owned two Mk3 Superbs since 2016 and neither of them have given me a problem with the automatic braking, indeed on two occasions it has helped me to avoid a collision.

Interestingly when I changed from a Mk2 Superb to a Mk3 the cost of my insurance went down and I was told that was because the new Superb had auto braking.

11 hours ago, Gabbo said:

 

In Europe a driver turning into a side street does not have right of way over a pedestrian and can often stop before entering the junction. 

 

Although most UK drivers don’t seem to realise it, it is exactly the same in the Uk these days, following a change to the Highway Code a couple of years ago.

You should not need a law to tell you to stop rather than run over a pedestrian even if they should not be crossing where they are, - not you personally Nick, people in general.

 

For anyone driving in France read up on and understand (aint easy!) the Priorité à Droite laws, it could save your life and those of others.

 

Also be aware than any Zone 30 (30kph) speed restriction which are springing up everywhere makes it by default a pedestrianised zone and people may cross the road wherever they choose without any warning, indeed any pedestrian crossings will have been removed.

 

The reason for the latter is that a pedestrian can be fined if they cross the road less than 25m from a passage piéton without using it, some drivers think that gives them the right to run them over