I had a test of a 120D 5-door, and was appalled :(

Was a squeeze to get in (granted, I'm probably a good deal larger than you are ) and the pedals were offset far to the right (which I've found in every BMW I've ever driven)

It went well thought... even though I had a few "argh! where's the F*cking brake pedal gone!?" moments....

I’m 5’9’’, so I’m no dwarf and find the car snug, but there again, most sports/sporting cars are. The transmission tunnel does offset the clutch pedal slightly, but I have found it not to be a problem so far.

The brakes are way better than the Octys, so I hope your Skodas are not worse than my last one!!:eek:

I understand how the stop/start helps but how can regenerative braking help a non-electric powered car e. a prius/lexus rh ??? Surely the alternator/battery don't use enough juice to justify the use of the system. What does it do on the MINIs/BMs?

The battery gets a shot of charge under braking and on the overrun and when you boot it, the alternator is de-coupled to give max power to your acceleration. If the battery charge is considered to be too low then the alternator charges as normal and the Stop Start is cancelled. The BMW blurb talks of a special battery construction that enables it to take charge very quickly from short bursts.

I forgot to mention, the car doesn’t blow soot out under load wither, at least not yet.

So, it's not far off th mark - factor in the tightness (engine - not you :P) and the cold weather and I'd say you'll probably get the same mpg with time.

The young fella at the car wash - have I seen him at nightclub, playing piano, dark glasses etc

I still think I will be around 10% sown on consumption overall, but then again, I will probably be using a bit more throttle pedal.

nice review

Thank you

I have just driven for 2 and 1/2 hours in Manchesters finest traffic jams and covered only 30 miles. i got around 39 mpg, so i guess the Stop Start does work quite well.

You enjoyed the traffic too then - as good as ever wasn't it

I'm just home....

Steve

You enjoyed the traffic too then - as good as ever wasn't it

I'm just home....

Steve

Bloody awful tonight. Every single road seemed jammed.

I have just driven for 2 and 1/2 hours in Manchesters finest traffic jams

Sorry, George not appearing until sometime in the New Year.

HTH

The battery gets a shot of charge under braking and on the overrun and when you boot it, the alternator is de-coupled to give max power to your acceleration. If the battery charge is considered to be too low then the alternator charges as normal and the Stop Start is cancelled. The BMW blurb talks of a special battery construction that enables it to take charge very quickly from short bursts.

I want to do some more reading on that, I don't buy it on face value. Are real life drivers hitting the official BMW consumption figures?

I want to do some more reading on that, I don't buy it on face value. Are real life drivers hitting the official BMW consumption figures?

I am very confidant that it does what it says on the tin. Halving had the engine stop starting for 2 ½ hours today and the engine not cancelling it’s ‘Stop Start’ function (thus letting me know that the battery charge isn’t low) and lights on, stereo blasting etc etc it must be getting it’s charge from somewhere. And having seen the overall consumption, it doesn’t look like the engine has been under load much charging the battery. I very much doubt BMW would make such a huge false claim about there their ‘Efficient Dynamics’ (or what ever they call it all).

Re the Fuel consumption, what car ever hits its official figures unless driven very gently and not in the cut and thrust of city centre life.

Stop/Start is a proven technology but it would be interesting to know what extra economy you get from the disconnecting the alternator in this way.

Stop/Start is a proven technology but it would be interesting to know what extra economy you get from the disconnecting the alternator in this way.

Well the government has seen fit to issue the 120D with an annual road tax bill of £35. That’s for a 1,400-1,500 kg car with 177bhp. So I figure that efficiency and emissions are closely linked, therefore the technology must work, the government is far to tight to let BMW get away with something that might take money from HMs government. The 118D doesn’t even pay Congestion charges and produces somewhere around 140 bhp iirc.

Well the government has seen fit to issue the 120D with an annual road tax bill of £35. That’s for a 1,400-1,500 kg car with 177bhp. So I figure that efficiency and emissions are closely linked, therefore the technology must work, the government is far to tight to let BMW get away with something that might take money from HMs government. The 118D doesn’t even pay Congestion charges and produces somewhere around 140 bhp iirc.

I'm vaguely aware of how the figures are obtained. I don't dispute the official figures but as it stands, I'd like to see a scientific breakdown of where the gains are made given that stop/start and brake energy regeneration are not the only features of the system.

I'm vaguely aware of how the figures are obtained. I don't dispute the official figures but as it stands, I'd like to see a scientific breakdown of where the gains are made given that stop/start and brake energy regeneration are not the only features of the system.

Have a trawl on their website. There is a huge amount of ‘attention to detail’ features fitted to these cars and it is the sum total of this that I believe to be the main contributor to the model ranges fuel consumption. After all, I have a car with approximately the same power and 50% more toque than my first Impreza Turbo, but at the same time I have halved my emissions and doubled my MPG. Pretty impressive stuff in my book:thumbup:, even if the engine note isn’t quite of the same vintage:(.

I'm not disputing that they've made an impressive acheivement but I refuse to accept that 204bhp and 60mpg comes about by magic. I'd like to see the engineering basis for this not the guff that appears on the website.

Have a trawl on their website. There is a huge amount of ‘attention to detail’ features fitted to these cars and it is the sum total of this that I believe to be the main contributor to the model ranges fuel consumption.

Then you'll be using your gear shift indicator to gain maximum efficiency

After all, I have a car with approximately the same power and 50% more toque than my first Impreza Turbo, but at the same time I have halved my emissions and doubled my MPG. Pretty impressive stuff in my book:thumbup:, even if the engine note isn’t quite of the same vintage:(.

More apples and pears - diesel/petrol, flat/inline, RWD/AWD, maybe halved your CO2 but what about the diesel nasties?

I'm not disputing that they've made an impressive acheivement but I refuse to accept that 204bhp and 60mpg comes about by magic. I'd like to see the engineering basis for this not the guff that appears on the website.

Then you'll be using your gear shift indicator to gain maximum efficiency

More apples and pears - diesel/petrol, flat/inline, RWD/AWD, maybe halved your CO2 but what about the diesel nasties?

60mpg OMG!!!! I missed that claim. Where did you see that? I can see a lot of the engineering guff outside my front door and at a friend’s garage when he puts Villberpog up on a lift.

The gear shift indicator learns your driving style and adjusts to suit. I am expecting it to indicate to change up at around 4,500 rpm once run in:thumbup:

I hate those diesel nasties too like lower fuel bills and double the range on a thankful. I much preferred paying around £5K a year on petrol for my Scooby as well as a complete set of tyres every 6 months and a service very 7,500 miles. Still I will have to learn to live without those luxuries I guess.:(:P

How does the 118d get away with the Congestion Charge? Didn't realise that; thought that honour was just reserved for electric/hybrid vehicles.

Is it because CO2 emissions are below a certain level?

Steve

Well the government has seen fit to issue the 120D with an annual road tax bill of £35. That’s for a 1,400-1,500 kg car with 177bhp. So I figure that efficiency and emissions are closely linked, therefore the technology must work, the government is far to tight to let BMW get away with something that might take money from HMs government. The 118D doesn’t even pay Congestion charges and produces somewhere around 140 bhp iirc.

The 118D is band B and the 120D band C last I looked (2 weeks ago)

Regarding the no room comments, I'm 6'4 and found there was bags of it.

How does the 118d get away with the Congestion Charge? Didn't realise that; thought that honour was just reserved for electric/hybrid vehicles.

Is it because CO2 emissions are below a certain level?

Steve

AFAIK They don't at present, but they will do under the new scheme they're bringing in early in the new year (Feb?).

How does the 118d get away with the Congestion Charge? Didn't realise that; thought that honour was just reserved for electric/hybrid vehicles.

Is it because CO2 emissions are below a certain level?

Steve

Yes:thumbup:. It makes all this hybrid hoo ha look a bit tosh really.

Amanda

The 118D is band B and the 120D band C last I looked (2 weeks ago)

They still are and the good new is mine is a band C too:).

They still are and the good new is mine is a band C too:).

I thought only A escaped "Ken's London Tax"

Why do you have to get so rabidly defensive about absolutely everything? I expressed an interest in how the various features of this "Efficient Dynamics" contribute to, what is without a doubt, a very impressive set of fuel economy stats. Stats that I know BMW haven't made up and that they were obtained within laboratory conditions following a specific test plan. These achievements are all the more impressive given that BMW have only been selling diesels for what? 15 years? And now they're selling some of the best engines on the market. But I'm not prepared to be palmed off with the written-for-3-year-olds information that I got spoon fed on the BMW website.

For any watcher of 'Vroom!' with Brendan "I'm not as funny as Steve or as musical as Martin - Gissa job" Coogan, they had a feature where they put sub-£100 mods onto an decrepit Astra and timed its 0-60 to see what mods i.e. alloy wheels, spoiler, induction kit (all the ch@v accessories ) actually helped. Well something similar with these BMW mods would be greatly appreciated. E.g. stop/start - gains 4mpg, trick alternator - 1 mpg, tyres - 2 mpg, gear shift light -0.0005mpg because of the extra electric use etc.

I'm certainly not questioning your decision to buy this car, it seems a corker any which way you look at it.

Let normal service resume...

Daiking...

I believe that the load placed on the car by the altenator is significant due to the stop start nature and requirement to make quite a use of the starter motor (although this can be disabled).

As such I believe the regenerative braking actually reduces load the alternator places on the engine and makes a noticeable contribution on fuel economy in situations where the car is braking.

Certainly if you look at the fact an alternator places a reasonable load on the engine as it is driven I can see why this might make a difference to the car.

Out of interest when I got a 120d out for a test drive it was getting pretty close to the stated economy figures and i wasn't exactly not giving it beans.

HTH

Great cars the BMW's love em. Still not driven the 123d or the 120d but the 118d is a great little unit.

I'm 6'2" and in the front there is seriously no headroom issue at all were talking huge headroom (try putting the seat right down), also in the rear I found it to be fine legroom was ok nothing special but livable and headroom well my head & hair were not touching the headlining and the rear headrests actually did have some use.

If I did get one it would have to be the M Sport or the SE with sport seats - although I dont think that the M sport is that much more than an SE with sport seats.

Out of interest what did you pay?

For any watcher of 'Vroom!' with Brendan "I'm not as funny as Steve or as musical as Martin - Gissa job" Coogan, they had a feature where they put sub-£100 mods onto an decrepit Astra and timed its 0-60 to see what mods i.e. alloy wheels, spoiler, induction kit (all the ch@v accessories ) actually helped. Well something similar with these BMW mods would be greatly appreciated. E.g. stop/start - gains 4mpg, trick alternator - 1 mpg, tyres - 2 mpg, gear shift light -0.0005mpg because of the extra electric use etc.

I'm certainly not questioning your decision to buy this car, it seems a corker any which way you look at it.

Let normal service resume...

But therein lays your answer. Take a modern efficient diesel and gain a couple here and a couple there mpg, and you have a very efficient modern diesel effectively. Hence a car with Impreza straight line performance can achieve very creditable figures. I dread to think what the overall mpg would be without these measures. Interestingly enough I have just spent nearly 2 hours (again!) in Manchester’s finest traffic jams and due to the very cold temperatures, the Stop-Start disables itself. My economy was just over 36mpg, slightly but definitely lower than yesterday’s urban crawl figures with the Stop-Start running. Not a great test I know, but it seems to reflect current wisdom on this technology.

Great cars the BMW's love em. Still not driven the 123d or the 120d but the 118d is a great little unit.

I'm 6'2" and in the front there is seriously no headroom issue at all were talking huge headroom (try putting the seat right down), also in the rear I found it to be fine legroom was ok nothing special but livable and headroom well my head & hair were not touching the headlining and the rear headrests actually did have some use.

If I did get one it would have to be the M Sport or the SE with sport seats - although I dont think that the M sport is that much more than an SE with sport seats.

Out of interest what did you pay?

just over £5.3K off and £1K off the finance. I think they can’t sell them:rofl:

Great cars the BMW's love em. Still not driven the 123d or the 120d but the 118d is a great little unit.

I'm 6'2" and in the front there is seriously no headroom issue at all were talking huge headroom (try putting the seat right down), also in the rear I found it to be fine legroom was ok nothing special but livable and headroom well my head & hair were not touching the headlining and the rear headrests actually did have some use.

If I did get one it would have to be the M Sport or the SE with sport seats - although I dont think that the M sport is that much more than an SE with sport seats.

Out of interest what did you pay?

a 118d/120d M sport actually worked out cheaper than an SE with the sports seats, especially when you consider the MSport gets part leather in it

a 118d/120d M sport actually worked out cheaper than an SE with the sports seats, especially when you consider the MSport gets part leather in it

I liked the SE Spec, but more importantly, I just couldn’t live with the M Technic suspension. Doing high mileage on motorways, it would make me miserable to be honest, even though it looks great. There is a very smart aero-bodykit that you can apply to an SE and it looks more like an M car than an SE, but retains the firm but still more pliable suspension of the SE.

Band A and Hybrids (read Hummer with a 9v battery) currently escape the Ken Charge but as of next year it's anything <120g/km. That's why all of these manufacturers are falling over themselves to tell us about the models they make that duck below it.

Watch out for the upcoming Diesel hybrids...................