Cold Start problems with a PD TDI 170

[KenONeill]

1) Well its got a DPF on so that will stop any smoke been emitted wont it?

2) To be honest that was a good start, normally it cranks for a few seconds and then fires into life with a lumpy fashion.

3) Its been on a fault code reader a few times now and nothing has been flagged up this is why im trying to get back to basics with this problem as the vagcom seems to be no use.

4) What kind of sensors dont throw up a fault code? (i thought they all did)

5) Basically all i want is like a bullet point list of what readings the car takes from which every sensors before i turn the key i.e coolent temp sensor, cold start sensors ect ect so we can start eliminating one untill the offending sensor (or whatever it is) is found

1) I'm not sure either way. Incidentally, I got a "not found" from the video clip.

2) Mine, ok not same engine, has dodgy glowplugs (for over 5 years) and pretty much always still starts in 2s, even if it sometimes fires up on 2 or 3 (and sounds like a bad misfire unti the cold cylinders heat up).

3) There may be a reason for this.

4) I've said that I'm a software engineer rather than a mechanic. This is where I may have an advantage, since I actually do real-time control systems.

Most or all of the sensors are monitored, but only throw fault codes for out of range values. If I expect the car to only ever be in atmospheres between -40 and +40C, I might write code that says "If outside temperature is reported as -60C, log error $number - narative "Outside temp sensor - implausible value". Now, if the outside temp is actually +5c, but the sensor is reporting -30C, it's talking nonsense, but won't throw an error. I can write similar arguments for just about any sensor!

5) Can't help because I don't know the VAG EMS in sufficient detail. People like Shark might know the start-up routines, but will probably want paying for the info.

[silver1011]

For those that have been aware of the cold starting issues that have been plaguing my PD vRS throughout the winter months might be interested to know that I think it’s fixed!

In the end my car was with the dealer on and off for around 21 days ( ), they tried all sorts of different things and in the end decided that the valve timing may be the issue as it was 'slightly out'. They claimed that there were marks or paint on the belt which suggested to them that it was fitted using a method not recommended by Skoda. Skoda apparently provides a set of locking pins that should be used instead. You can imagine their surprise when I told them the belt was changed by a franchised Skoda dealer!

Despite the nice weather we've been having during the day it has been very cold on a night, last night was down to -1 and the car needed defrosting this morning. Rather pleasantly it started just fine - exactly as I'd expect. Not quite as enthusiastically as the wife’s PD140 but much, much better than before.

The real test will have to wait until next winter to see if the issue returns but for now I'm much happier.

Thought I'd update this thread as I'm sure it will reappear later in the year when other PD vRS owners suffer from the same problem!

[Anddenton]

Did you get the other problems sorted as well Silver?

Does it still eat turbos and have rising oil or did the timing tweak sort everything?

[silver1011]

The turbo still whistles from cold for a few miles but it has a two year warranty and I've made it clear in my Skoda UK case that if it gets worse its coming back in!

The oil level hasn't risen again since the first turbo failure so again I'll be watching it very closely.

All in all I think it may now be fixed, time will tell though, fingers crossed. Top marks to Skoda UK though, exemplary service.

[Davidsr20]

Iv had no cold start issues at all, and I got my injectors done, just seems to be very few.

[silver1011]

It turns out it wasn't related to the injectors, if it is truly fixed then it was the valve timing.

[Anddenton]

The turbo still whistles from cold for a few miles but it has a two year warranty and I've made it clear in my Skoda UK case that if it gets worse its coming back in!

The oil level hasn't risen again since the first turbo failure so again I'll be watching it very closely.

All in all I think it may now be fixed, time will tell though, fingers crossed. Top marks to Skoda UK though, exemplary service.

Fingers crossed it is all sorted for you mate.

[insane]

I've got a Golf mk5 TDI in New Zealand with the PD140 + DPF engine and have had basically the same issues on the first start of the day several times, but mainly when I haven't kept the key turned for long enough. So far it's been summer here and coldest I've seen it was 10 degrees C.

I also notice that it's a LOT worse when the car is parked slightly up hill, as it is where I park at work. If I keep the starter running for a second or two it will start after a splutter (worse than the vids posted above)

Interestingly enough I do get quite a puff of blue/grey smoke when I have the stutter, rather embarrassing when it's colder outside as you end up driving through your own smoke cloud when you pull out of a parking space.

Maybe my cam-belt has slipped too as the car has started to feel a little sluggish of late.. and only just ticked over 50,000KM last week.

[Davidsr20]

There's no way ur cam belt slipped as it would run very very bad if that happened and deff not at 50k ether,

[silver1011]

Well, my cold starting issue remain.

Got back on the phone to Skoda UK and they've said get it booked back in - this time at another dealer.

Here we go again!

[Davidsr20]

Well, my cold starting issue remain.

Got back on the phone to Skoda UK and they've said get it booked back in - this time at another dealer.

Here we go again!

I really do think it's something to do with ur injector seals.

Iv just been away on holidays for a week came home it was fairly cold out and first turn of the key she fired up with no lumpy or smoke what so ever.I now have 6k km done on my new injectors.

[Jane_i10]

I think its more likely to be an air leak some where. Mine is fine now it has warmed up slightly but it only stuggles to start once its been left over 8hours or so. If it was a seal on the injectors it would do it all the time surly

[Nick P]

Just a reminder as the info on this issue is spread over a few threads now - this is what mine is like at the moment:

It's been at the dealers for a couple of weeks now. Only seems to present when parked facing uphill.

[Jane_i10]

Wow thats pretty bad, mine just struggles to start, might even take two turns of the key to get it going but once running the engine itself is smooth, the only thing that causes it to feel lumpy is the DMF, put the clutch down and the engine is fine, bring it back up there is a rough-ness to it.

Nice steering wheel though didt know you had that

[silver1011]

Wow thats pretty bad, mine just struggles to start, might even take two turns of the key to get it going.

Two turns of the key sounds pretty bad to me. It should start on the first turn with less than a second of cranking.

Perhaps we differ in terms of what we feel is 'normal' as I'm sure all cars are different.

What doesn't help is we have another Octavia (a PD140 Scout) which starts instantly in any temperature and on any incline.

[Jane_i10]

Two turns of the key sounds pretty bad to me. It should start on the first turn with less than a second of cranking.

Perhaps we differ in terms of what we feel is 'normal' as I'm sure all cars are different.

What doesn't help is we have another Octavia (a PD140 Scout) which starts instantly in any temperature and on any incline.

Yeah i know two turns of the keys is never good (iv had the battery tested, fine) but thats the worse part over with, after that it runs smooth with the clutch depressed.

Its all very confusing! Something that is special to the 170's..im sure someone in Skoda and has the know how will be able to narrow it down, they cant have that many different parts to the 140's?

[Davidsr20]

Yeah i know two turns of the keys is never good (iv had the battery tested, fine) but thats the worse part over with, after that it runs smooth with the clutch depressed.

Its all very confusing! Something that is special to the 170's..im sure someone in Skoda and has the know how will be able to narrow it down, they cant have that many different parts to the 140's?

U talk about pressing ur clutch a lot while starting why?

[silver1011]

Whether it's an old wives tale or not I was told that dipping the clutch whilst starting the engine was good practice in case its left in gear.

I also heard that it reduces the strain on the battery as the starter motor is having to turn over less load?

I think a lot of modern cars require the clutch to be pressed to start the engine these days too?

[Jane_i10]

U talk about pressing ur clutch a lot while starting why?

As silver mentioned its good practice, i dont know its just something i do 99% of the time. Once upon a time when my Clio went for an MOT the tester parked it in the car park ready for collection, i started it and he had left it in reverse..needless to say i was rather startled (is a nice way to put it) since then iv always put the clutch down or shake the gearstick.

But also iv suffered with knackered DMF before on a past car and the way to tell if a noise is coming from the gearbox or engine is to depress the clutch, so when the DMF is making funny noises i depress the clutch just to make sure it is the DMF and nothing else.

Also yes silver i think all new Skoda's require the clutch to be depressed to enable to start the engine.

Edited 28 April, 2012 by Ema_jane

[silver1011]

Right, I may be getting closer to fixing my cold starting issues now!

Skoda UK agreed that I should try a different dealer so I dropped it off this morning at Pulman Skoda in Durham.

I got a call this afternoon to tell me that they think the fuel filter housing has corroded and is leaking. The guy said that when the fuel pump was pulling fuel through the filter from the tank it was getting mixed with air.

Now with everything with me nothing is ever simple. I too noticed a few months ago that the top of the fuel filter housing was corroded and sprayed it lightly with some WD40.

I told the guy this when he rang today and he said they wiped it down, took it for a drive and saw that it was still leaking.

Have they mistaken my WD40 for a fuel leak?

This is a picture of my engine bay I took at the weekend (ignore the red arrow). You can see the fuel filter housing in the bottom left of the picture.

Does it look corroded to you? There is a dark patch around the upper third of it's height. I sprayed WD40 only in the top, could it have bled down the sides or do you reckon the garage are on the money!?

They have quoted £230 inc. VAT to do the work...

Edited 14 May, 2012 by silver1011

[mikey vrs]

£230 to replace the fuel filter??????? it could be corroded,when was it last replaced or is it the original?

[Auric Goldfinger]

Re

£230 to replace the fuel filter??????? it could be corroded,when was it last replaced or is it the original?

To replace the whole unit,

How come they never rubbed there finger on it and had a smell, Diesel smells of, well Diesel. if its WD40 over spray it would smell of, well WD40

Tell them, Do it, replace the unit, if it works I'll pay if it don't I won't

They may come up with something else

[rustyGT]

I get a build up of water there actually, no matter what I do to try to stop it. And its corroded quite badly (however, I don't have your issues).

Might plasti-dip the top to prevent more corrosion and possible future problems.

[silver1011]

Yes, the £230 is for the fuel filter housing including the fuel filter. It is the housing that they are claiming has corroded.

I'm going to get a quote from my local Skoda dealer and a local VAG indy to compare.

I also still have some (third party) warranty on the car so will give that a try but not sure I'll get too far as their booklet does specifically mention wear and tear, corrosion and porousness as not being covered.

[Davidsr20]

Right, I may be getting closer to fixing my cold starting issues now!

Skoda UK agreed that I should try a different dealer so I dropped it off this morning at Pulman Skoda in Durham.

I got a call this afternoon to tell me that they think the fuel filter housing has corroded and is leaking. The guy said that when the fuel pump was pulling fuel through the filter from the tank it was getting mixed with air.

Now with everything with me nothing is ever simple. I too noticed a few months ago that the top of the fuel filter housing was corroded and sprayed it lightly with some WD40.

I told the guy this when he rang today and he said they wiped it down, took it for a drive and saw that it was still leaking.

Have they mistaken my WD40 for a fuel leak?

This is a picture of my engine bay I took at the weekend (ignore the red arrow). You can see the fuel filter housing in the bottom left of the picture.

Does it look corroded to you? There is a dark patch around the upper third of it's height. I sprayed WD40 only in the top, could it have bled down the sides or do you reckon the garage are on the money!?

They have quoted £230 inc. VAT to do the work...

Can u not buy it and fit it urself,

Did u get ur exhaust pressure sensor replaced btw?