• Announcements

    • ColinD

      2017 EMail Issues - Post Upgrade   23/01/17

      Hi,   Following a successful upgrade of our old code; being out of support we had to upgrade, we've encountered an unforeseen in preview and testing issue with our production email.   This means that email isn't sending as well as it should. You might ask for the email and we might send it, it also might get blocked by your ISP. Btinternet, AOL and Yahoo are well known for blocking.   We're working on it and I hope to have an solution working shortly.    Out of all that could of gone wrong, this isn't the worst case   As to other issues and 'change' as I said, it's forced upon us. To not change is irresponsible. More updates to follow once we're past our initial snag list.   There's only one working on it though; me, so please be patient, read the support topics, spend a few minutes, it's not that different once you get over the shock.   Cheers,   Colin   Snag List Topic >>       

Cheap Handling Mod

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

97 posts in this topic

The subframe on the Octy Vrs is quite flexible, obviously being bad for handling and power deliverly. A popular modification is to put the Audi TT lower brace on to improve the rigidity. On the TT Roadster, this is taken a step further with the addition of uprated 2 piece rear subframe bushes and rear cross braces. You can see these numbered 2 and 34 on the picture below. Apparantly they make a bigger difference than the front brace, reducing understeer, wheel hop and giving better power delivery. I've just ordered some from VAG PARTS (01793487700). The cross braces (34) are £7.00 each and the uprated rear bushes (2) are £22.00per side. :thumbup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just a couple of Stupid Questions(TM):

1. i'm assuming a regular non-vRS octy would also benefit?

2. How easy are they to fit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
May I add to the previous silly question by asking an even more stupid question,
Does it suit the 4x4 hatch? I believe the rear suspension on the 4x4 is different.
In what way I don't know, but I know I want rid of body role.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would have thought it would be more likely to fit the 4x4 than the VRS, isn't the TT back end completely different to the VRS?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, that sounds right, aren't all TT's 4 wheel drive?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE=Hans Freikit]Another stupid question: does this suit the vrS Combi (estate) too ?

Si[/QUOTE]

Excellent question. I'm waiting for the answer!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='todonova']Yeah, that sounds right, aren't all TT's 4 wheel drive?[/quote]

nope

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Umm........The pic in the first post is of the front sub-frame, as there is a dog bone mount shown. The mod is for the back/rear of the front sub-frame and will fit any 1.8T golf platform. It's been on my car for about 2 years now and it does make a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So this really would be a cheap handling mod then..:thumbup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='todonova']Yeah, that sounds right, aren't all TT's 4 wheel drive?[/quote]


One exhaust pipe equals 180 bhp FWD & Slow (In germany I know you can order 180's with twin pipes)
Twin Exhausts equals 225 bhp 4WD & a tadge quicker
Octy 4x4 or Rs + jabba remap = faster than both !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE=Stuart_J]
Octy 4x4 or Rs + jabba remap = faster than both !!![/QUOTE]

Octy vRs + IP map = also faster than both..:P But this really is a question about handling and not performance...;)
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Beretta']Octy vRs + IP map = also faster than both..:P But this really is a question about handling and not performance...;)[/quote]

Sorry, slapped wrists! I should have said "a decent remap" there are several including IP.

Its also about the driver, Ive come across a few TT's & they only seem quick on the straights which I am sure is a driver thing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Urm, nope. Single pipe denotes a 180, not necessarily a FWD one.

As for are they quick, well I reckon that if you did the same mods on the TT that you'd do on the Octy there wouldn't be a lot in it although the TT is heavier.

As you say, comes down to the driver as much as anything. Most are bought by poseurs not "drivers". I've driven a remapped one at the Ring and I like to think I drove it to within an inch of its life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='delcac']Umm........The pic in the first post is of the front sub-frame, as there is a dog bone mount shown. The mod is for the back/rear of the front sub-frame and will fit any 1.8T golf platform. It's been on my car for about 2 years now and it does make a difference.[/quote]

Des, any chance of some part numbers, the rear bush could be Powerflex could it not? Will look into the bracing piecee as they would complement the S3 lower brace fitted to the front of the subframe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The braces should fit all configerations, as the sub frame is the same. If you look at the pic below, you can see a home made brace fitted. The sub frame already has threaded mounting holes. You may have to drill a hole near the rear sub frame bush though. The uprated 2 piece sub frame bushes, are fitted to vag cars with high torque, ie TT Vr6 etc. The bushes on the Octy are single piece and not as strong.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='sabredylan']The subframe on the Octy Vrs is quite flexible, obviously being bad for handling and power deliverly. A popular modification is to put the Audi TT lower brace on to improve the rigidity[/quote]

Presumably the lower brace makes the bigger difference rather than the small 'cross-pieces' ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are all of these parts an easy(ish) DIY job that needs no special tools?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='MC Bodge']Presumably the lower brace makes the bigger difference rather than the small 'cross-pieces' ?[/quote]


The lower brace does make a difference and is cheap as chips (£18 IIRC).

However it would also be better to add a top strut as well...effectively making a "square"...i.e. top/bottom braces with the struts either side.

No special tools are required for fitting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was told that the small rear braces and bushes made a bigger difference than just the front brace. The braces are a diy job, as the mounting points are already there. You will probably have to drill a couple of holes for the rear braces though. The bushes will be a bit more involved, as you need a bush extractor. This is the write up from someone who has made his own rear braces.

For 2 years I've been experimenting with dogbones, motor mounts, alignment settings, etc. trying to get the front end of my 337 to stop understeering and plowing. I had a '92 Jetta GLi that cornered on rails, so I couldn't believe a 337 couldn't do it too. When I'd go real stiff with dogbone bushings and/or tranny & motor mount, the bite of the front end improved alot but the noise was unbearable. After endless experimentation I realized something important. When I stiffened up motor mounts or dogbone bushings it's wasn't the reduced engine movement that improved handling (think about it, why would it be?), it was the engine acting to reduce movement of the subframe through the dogbone! A few months ago I removed the subframe from my 337. I was amazed at how flexible the whole thing was and how wimpy the rear subframe bushings were. The subframe and these bushings are the key to getting a MKIV to stop understeering! Those that say "improve your handling by limiting engine motion with our poly dogbone bushings/motor mounts" have it completely backward. It's not less engine movement that aids handling, it's less subframe movement.
When I had the subframe out, I strengthened it by welding steel bar-stock braces inside and outside. This helped, but the biggest change came from making new rear subframe bushings. It took a lot of trial and error so I can't provide detailed instructions here, but I took polyurethane boat trailer rollers and turned them down on the shaft of a bench grinder. A slightly oversized top and bottom half are put in the subframe then squeezed to hold the subframe tightly when the bolt is torqued down.
I'm back to a stock dogbone mount and don't need anything tighter. The interior isn't as quiet as stock, but it's far better than with poly dogbone bushings.

What a change in the handling! The steering is far more accurate than my brother's M3 and the front end just won't give up in corners. I can throw the tail out any time I want, or balance it in a 4 wheel drift. Hard accleration creates no front end lift. None. When I get wheel spin, it's both front wheels equally with no wheel hop at all. I just can't believe that all of the other MKIV tweakers out there have missed this one.

This chap made his own rear bushes for the front subframe out of polyurethane, but there is already 2 piece uprated bush available from VAG. I don't think there is an aftermarket poly bush available, but if there is can you post it on the thread please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE=SkodiRS]The lower brace does make a difference and is cheap as chips (£18 IIRC).

However it would also be better to add a top strut as well...effectively making a "square"...i.e. top/bottom braces with the struts either side.
[/QUOTE]

Cheers. Increased stiffness would be good. Does anyone have any pictures/diagrams of the braces in situ? How 'stealthy' is it?

I sense a trip to Audi coming on....
A TT wheelarch vent is calling me too...

Actually, my mate's TT 225 could be a suitable donor car.
(I might call round there later :) The way he drives it he wouldn't even notice if I swapped the engine for a 1.4 ;) Why he didn't get a 150/180 I've no idea.....:rolleyes: )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I feel a trip to VW coming on - No Audi dealer near here so I'm hoping they can get the parts for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I cant see the part number for the braces numbered "34" in the diargam, nor the bolts "35"

Anyone got them ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be honest Audi and VW dealers can be a bit off, if the part is for another vehicle. I've always used VAG Parts (01793487700). They are cheaper and post it to your door. They have access to part diagrams of all the VAG range, so you can compare part numbers etc. Ask for Alan.

I've had a search and can't find any poly bushes for the front subframe our chassis. The only ones I could find were for a golf mk3 and they said the bushes might transmit a bit of vibration. Might be better with the two piece from VAG in that case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, to complete this cheap handling mod, you'd need:

rear braces from the TT
uprated sub-frame bushes (what vehicle are they from?)
cross-members, from a TT soft-top

Anything else?

oh, yes and a wheelarch vent :)

Any other TT bits that would enhance the dynamics of an Octavia?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.