yea:thumbup:

remember the rules of the road,MIGHT IS RIGHT:P

i'm bigger so i'll do what i want,if you don't like it lump it;)

There are a minority of drivers who will not let the passing truck past,so they sit while one passes the other these drivers want shooting,but they are a minority,most will back it down a touch to aid the flow of traffic but as usual its a minority who ruin things for the majority:thumbdwn:

Your opinion doesn't count for 2 reasons.

1 - You live in Barlick

2 - You drive a bulk tipper. Bulk tipper drivers haven't made it onto the food chain yet, or they would be the lowest species on it

2 - You drive a bulk tipper. Bulk tipper drivers haven't made it onto the food chain yet, or they would be the lowest species on it

nice !!! :rofl:certainly put a smile on my face.

Your opinion doesn't count for 2 reasons.

1 - You live in Barlick

2 - You drive a bulk tipper. Bulk tipper drivers haven't made it onto the food chain yet, or they would be the lowest species on it

:rofl:

YOUR STILL OLD:P

If you are stuck behind an overtaking truck doing 55mph for 10 miles when you "could" be doing 70mph it will add just 2.4 minutes to your journey. There is nothing you can do about it and ranting and raving will shove up your blood pressure and make you more likely to have an accident - both of which could shorten or end your life - is that a price worth paying for 2.4 minutes?

And said wagon driver will save less than 1 minute, which a digital tacho will take back off him at his next break.

But over a 9 to 10 hr driving day it can (and does) make the difference of getting to your destination / back home again.

I regularly lost over an hours driving a day when i used to run through Germany thanks to their overtaking bans, as most of the time we were only pulling around 2 - 3T (with a 460BHP unit).

this is what many do not understand, not only is we limited by speed limiter (and traffic) but we are also limited by hours too. one reason when i use to do the liverpool run for me to leave at 3.30am instead of 7am was so i could miss all the hold ups on the m6 get into liverpool by 7am get offloaded and then pull into the services on the way into manchester and go to sleep for an hour (again avoiding the hold ups going into manchester) certainly saved a good hour or two each day, even if it meant getting up a few hours earlier.

Oh come on, if you were running at what 20T with 460bhp you were going past up the hill whatever (unless banned) but that doesn't mean you were running significantly faster on the flat or downhill.

And do you really think anyone who's sufficiently aware of hours regs etc to make the point about a digitach rounding seconds up to the next full minute isn't aware of the isues?

this is what many do not understand, not only is we limited by speed limiter (and traffic) but we are also limited by hours too. one reason when i use to do the liverpool run for me to leave at 3.30am instead of 7am was so i could miss all the hold ups on the m6 get into liverpool by 7am get offloaded and then pull into the services on the way into manchester and go to sleep for an hour (again avoiding the hold ups going into manchester) certainly saved a good hour or two each day, even if it meant getting up a few hours earlier.

Yes, but lorry drivers a paid to be on the road and most car drivers are just in there as a way to get to work so are not getting paid to sit behind a 55mph lorry on the A34 trying to save a few seconds and holding up the whole road for miles.

Oh come on, if you were running at what 20T with 460bhp you were going past up the hill whatever (unless banned) but that doesn't mean you were running significantly faster on the flat or downhill.

My point is its the overtaking bans that screw it all up.

When you are running so light with a fair bit of power it means the truck is on the limiter for 95% of the trip (mostly Autobahns).

But when you have overtaking bans you either sit in the VERY long convoy behind the Eastern block truck at the front chugging along at 40 - 50 KPH up the hills, (which as you no doubt know is where the bans are) and as soon as they get to the flat they are back up to 90 KPH, so you have no chance of passing them, OR you take a chance and overtake them in a banned area.

And do you really think anyone who's sufficiently aware of hours regs etc to make the point about a digitach rounding seconds up to the next full minute isn't aware of the isues?

Possibly yes, after all the people who make the rules have no actual hands on experience of how it affects truck drivers either.

Yes, but lorry drivers a paid to be on the road and most car drivers are just in there as a way to get to work so are not getting paid to sit behind a 55mph lorry on the A34 trying to save a few seconds and holding up the whole road for miles.

55mph is one of the most economic speeds for your car, feel lucky the lorry drivers are helping to save you a few quid on fuel. im guessing you have never driven a lorry? we not paid to sit in jams either, especially when two idiots have smashed into each other in the outside lane spinning across the carraigeway and bringing the A34 to a halt, i only get 9 hours of driving each day and every second we get held up means we can go less in ditance terms meaning the difference between something being delivered today or ends up getting delivered tomorrow instead. if i do run out of hours the depot then has to pay for two people, both to come out to me, one to drive the lorry back and the other to drive me back as im not allowed to drive anymore that day.

55mph is one of the most economic speeds for your car, feel lucky the lorry drivers are helping to save you a few quid on fuel. im guessing you have never driven a lorry? we not paid to sit in jams either, especially when two idiots have smashed into each other in the outside lane spinning across the carraigeway and bringing the A34 to a halt, i only get 9 hours of driving each day and every second we get held up means we can go less in ditance terms meaning the difference between something being delivered today or ends up getting delivered tomorrow instead. if i do run out of hours the depot then has to pay for two people, both to come out to me, one to drive the lorry back and the other to drive me back as im not allowed to drive anymore that day.

We are not paid to sit in jams when a lorry driver spills a load or jack-knifes etc etc.

You may only get 9 hours of driving a day, but you do get paid for those 9 hours. Most people who are car drivers are paid to do 9 to 5 and in many cases 9am to 6pm without overtime. They are not paid to sit in traffic for an hour each way or more and you don't get paid overtime. If you get stuck in traffic you have to make the time up, same as a lorry driver would.

Point I'm making is that not allowing a lorry to overtake during peak hours does almost not harm, as you have already said you tend to drive outside of peak hours to avoid traffic and maximise the distance you can cover.

As such all a regulation along the lines of the German one would do, would keep UK larries running outside of peak hours.

I mean do you really want to be on the road between say 8am and 10 am or 4pm and 7pm? The no overtaking applying during those times wouldn't make only a small difference.

That plus if you want to go down the hard done by lorry drivers line, the RFL for a lorry is much lower than it should be based on the damage done by the weight of the vehicle. A car at say 1 tonne pays £150 a year RFL, with an approximate loading of 1/4 of a tonne per wheel. A 44 tonne, 18 wheel lorry puts down an average of 2.5 tonne per wheel. 10 times that of the car.

Weight is a power of 4 factor in the damage to the road, so the lorry tax should be £150 * 10 ^ 4 = £1,500,000 per year.

Now I'm not suggesting it's sensible to do such a thing, although it could be good to apply that to non-UK lorries . However car drivers are paying disproportionately for the damage to the roads surface and bikers probably are too. As such I don't think it's too much to ask to cut them some slack and not to allow overtaking during peak hours.

It all balances out in the end, and FWIW 55mph isn't the best for my economy, a GPS noted 62mph in top appears to be.

Edited 15 September, 200817 yr by cheezemonkhai

Most people who are car drivers are paid to do 9 to 5 and in many cases 9am to 6pm without overtime. They are not paid to sit in traffic for an hour each way or more and you don't get paid overtime. If you get stuck in traffic you have to make the time up, same as a lorry driver would.

You seem to forget that truck drivers also have to drive to and from work so they would be sitting in that traffic just like the rest (haulage is 24/7, so people start at different times throughout the day)

I mean do you really want to be on the road between say 8am and 10 am or 4pm and 7pm? The no overtaking applying during those times wouldn't make only a small difference.

Would you like to have to be at work for 13 hrs a day, but only get paid for 8?

That plus if you want to go down the hard done by lorry drivers line, the RFL for a lorry is much lower than it should be based on the damage done by the weight of the vehicle. A car at say 1 tonne pays £150 a year RFL, with an approximate loading of 1/4 of a tonne per wheel. A 44 tonne, 18 wheel lorry puts down an average of 2.5 tonne per wheel. 10 times that of the car.

its not quite that simple, as the truck tyre will be 2-3 times wider than a car, so the load is spread over a wider area, but i get the point you are trying to make.

Weight is a power of 4 factor in the damage to the road, so the lorry tax should be £150 * 10 ^ 4 = £1,500,000 per year.

I will take your word on that, but who do you think pays indirectly for the road tax on a UK taxed truck? - the customer, yep YOU and ME! So by all means tax the UK trucks a lot more, but expect the cost to be passed on.

although it could be good to apply that to non-UK lorries .

I'm 100% with you on that.

99.9% / EVERYTHING in your home was once on a truck at some time in its life, that is the world we live in, trucks are just moving all the goods that you and i buy in the shops, you cant live without them, so why not accept that they are actually providing a service for you and learn to share the roads WITH them, you have no more right to be on a clear road in your car than what a truck does.

If you don't want trucks on the road then the solution is simple, stop buying anything in the shops (including the fuel and tyres for your car) and be self sufficient.

Until that day arrives, if people actually leave home 5 mins earlier than the time they 'need' to and didn't drive like an **** because they are now late for work everything would run smoother.

Why all the rush? you are a long time dead.

Would you like to have to be at work for 13 hrs a day, but only get paid for 8?

Well we don't get paid overtime and I regularly do over a 12 hour day. So since my salary is based on a 9-5 day then I do, then add 1 hours drive to that and again I'm doing that.

its not quite that simple, as the truck tyre will be 2-3 times wider than a car, so the load is spread over a wider area, but i get the point you are trying to make.

Agreed it isn't that simple at all, but as you say in the whole is stands.

I will take your word on that, but who do you think pays indirectly for the road tax on a UK taxed truck? - the customer, yep YOU and ME! So by all means tax the UK trucks a lot more, but expect the cost to be passed on.

I didn't say it should be applied, I was just raising the point that lorry drivers are not all that hard up as some of them make out. This tax is bad, that tax is bad our costs are high. Yes but they could be so much higher, it just so happens that they used to be very low costs and now they are not.

I'm 100% with you on that.

:thumbup:

99.9% / EVERYTHING in your home was once on a truck at some time in its life, that is the world we live in, trucks are just moving all the goods that you and i buy in the shops, you cant live without them, so why not accept that they are actually providing a service for you and learn to share the roads WITH them, you have no more right to be on a clear road in your car than what a truck does.

No and I get equally annoyed at cars that don't move over and just play middle lane captains. I'm fairly certain it states somewhere that if you can't overtake in a timely fashion then you shouldn't. 1 mile + is not timely, but I still maintain some regs during peak hours would help traffic flow and as such improve matters for all. If the traffic was better in peak times, you would get all us pesky car drivers out of the way quicker.

If you don't want trucks on the road then the solution is simple, stop buying anything in the shops (including the fuel and tyres for your car) and be self sufficient.

Until that day arrives, if people actually leave home 5 mins earlier than the time they 'need' to and didn't drive like an **** because they are now late for work everything would run smoother.

I am strongly for rail freight to be fair and using trucks only for the last stint.

As for car drivers leaving 5 minute earlier, well why don't the lorry drivers just plan routes such that they are not travelling during peak hours?

That's a cyclic argument.

I'm courteous towards lorries, I'll let them out by pulling a lane out when I can, but when I can't I don't expect to have to cram on the anchors as they are going to come anyway. I also don't expect to have to endure sitting behind a lorry at 50mph as a pair of them go up a hill with one trying to overtake.

The road damage is calculated on axle weight, not ground pressure.

Yes, but lorry drivers a paid to be on the road and most car drivers are just in there as a way to get to work so are not getting paid to sit behind a 55mph lorry on the A34 trying to save a few seconds and holding up the whole road for miles.

They are still expected to get the job done though aren't they? Having now been a passenger in one I can see why they would want to overtake. It would be like the person sat next to you at work keep moving your pen to the end of the office so you have to keep wasting time going to get - you're getting paid, but your boss is p!ssed off because you haven't done enough work.

From what I have seen it takes probably at most a minute for one truck to get past another and pull in again. 9 times out of 10 it's on a motorway where there's another lane anyway. If I was doing 15 hour days I don't think I'd be in the mood to be stuck behind slower trucks either.

From what I have seen it takes probably at most a minute for one truck to get past another and pull in again. 9 times out of 10 it's on a motorway where there's another lane anyway. If I was doing 15 hour days I don't think I'd be in the mood to be stuck behind slower trucks either.

Most of the time sure, but I've been in a 15 mile "jam" caused by a truck duel which was still ongoing when I got past them.

But they can only do 9 hour days no?

Seriously though, I've no problem them overtaking most of the time, but keeping them in during peak hours (a whole 5 or 6 hours a day) would make a big difference to traffic flow at peak hours. It would also help if the police started to pull over and fine haulage companies and cars that can't keep 55mph on the road when fully loaded. If they can't maintain that speed or are cruising at 40 then they shouldn't be on the motorway just as a 50cc bike shouldn't be.

You could then use the same police monitoring that (haha police, fat chance) to issue tickets to middle lane captains and also car drivers behaving like idiots.

Ken, Yes I know it works on axle weight, but my point was that the amount of force through each tyre will affect the amount of force being placed on a small patch of the roads surface and the amount of damage done.

It was as stated an approximation just to make the point.

But they can only do 9 hour days no?

Of driving, yes

CM, It was Gizmo who was talking about ground pressure; I realised that you also knew that the road damage forumla we're using works on axle weight!

It would also help if the police started to pull over and fine haulage companies and cars that can't keep 55mph on the road when fully loaded. If they can't maintain that speed or are cruising at 40 then they shouldn't be on the motorway just as a 50cc bike shouldn't be.

That comment proves you have no idea what is involved to get a 44T truck up to 55mph on a big hill.

Do you think trucks are going slower up hill just to p off car drivers?

How much BHP do you think a car weighing a tonne needs to get up a decent hill without dropping below 55mph? 40, 50BHP? so you have now got a truck weighing 44 times that car, so how much BHP is the truck going to need? i will let you work the maths out for yourself.

To give you a bit of an idea, i drove a 530BHP (at the time it was the most powerful you could buy and as rare as hens teeth) truck on a few occasions and even that didn't quite stop on the limiter going up really decent hills when grossing 44T.

The German strategy should be adopted, HGV's only allowed to overtake in dedicated zones with hefty fines for anyone flaunting it. HGV's off the road during bank holidays is a nice touch in the fatherland as well.

A few years ago they used to fine the driver, then his employer

That comment proves you have no idea what is involved to get a 44T truck up to 55mph on a big hill.

Do you think trucks are going slower up hill just to p off car drivers?

How much BHP do you think a car weighing a tonne needs to get up a decent hill without dropping below 55mph? 40, 50BHP? so you have now got a truck weighing 44 times that car, so how much BHP is the truck going to need? i will let you work the maths out for yourself.

To give you a bit of an idea, i drove a 530BHP (at the time it was the most powerful you could buy and as rare as hens teeth) truck on a few occasions and even that didn't quite stop on the limiter going up really decent hills when grossing 44T.

i was driving an r620 up untill recently and fully frieghted even that struggled on the steepest hills:O

That comment proves you have no idea what is involved to get a 44T truck up to 55mph on a big hill.

A hell of a lot of power, but at the same time if its an issue with 44tonner lorries maybe that is saying something about the amount behind a truck with an engine that doesn't have enough output for the job. Yes I'm aware 44tonnes is a hell of a lot to have gravity acting on, but even so.

At the end of the day if a vehicle can not maintain a safe speed on the motorway then it shouldn't be on there. That is the same reason you can't have a 120cc motorbike on the motorway even though that can probably maintain 55mph up a hill.

Do you think trucks are going slower up hill just to p off car drivers?

How much BHP do you think a car weighing a tonne needs to get up a decent hill without dropping below 55mph? 40, 50BHP? so you have now got a truck weighing 44 times that car, so how much BHP is the truck going to need? i will let you work the maths out for yourself.

To give you a bit of an idea, i drove a 530BHP (at the time it was the most powerful you could buy and as rare as hens teeth) truck on a few occasions and even that didn't quite stop on the limiter going up really decent hills when grossing 44T.

No I don't for a second think that the drivers do it to take the proverbial, but my comment was placed at cars and lorries. I had a 1T car and that could hold 70 up a hill with no problem with a whole 60bhp even after doing 250k and so probably not putting out that 60 any more. That weighed over a tonne.

As for your comment of a 530bhp/whatever torque lorry couldn't pull 44T up a hill, I think that just supports my suggestion that 44T lorries are a step to far and they maximum load should be (and used to be until the EU got involved) less.

I really don't see that it would be such an issue to adopt a system similar to the Germans as while it might cost one or two companies it saves the majority of users time. The needs of the many etc etc. Yes we pay more for goods as the costs are passed on, but then we spend less time stuck in traffic and so have to spend less of our day making up lost time at work.

Besides which if the EU lorries have to spend an extra day over here then their costs also go up and probably more than a UK based lorry so it could actually help with that issue.

A hell of a lot of power, but at the same time if its an issue with 44tonner lorries maybe that is saying something about the amount behind a truck with an engine that doesn't have enough output for the job. Yes I'm aware 44tonnes is a hell of a lot to have gravity acting on, but even so.

At the end of the day if a vehicle can not maintain a safe speed on the motorway then it shouldn't be on there. That is the same reason you can't have a 120cc motorbike on the motorway even though that can probably maintain 55mph up a hill.

No I don't for a second think that the drivers do it to take the proverbial, but my comment was placed at cars and lorries. I had a 1T car and that could hold 70 up a hill with no problem with a whole 60bhp even after doing 250k and so probably not putting out that 60 any more. That weighed over a tonne.

As for your comment of a 530bhp/whatever torque lorry couldn't pull 44T up a hill, I think that just supports my suggestion that 44T lorries are a step to far and they maximum load should be (and used to be until the EU got involved) less.

I really don't see that it would be such an issue to adopt a system similar to the Germans as while it might cost one or two companies it saves the majority of users time. The needs of the many etc etc. Yes we pay more for goods as the costs are passed on, but then we spend less time stuck in traffic and so have to spend less of our day making up lost time at work.

Besides which if the EU lorries have to spend an extra day over here then their costs also go up and probably more than a UK based lorry so it could actually help with that issue.

for people who are rich it would be no problem,but my boss would simply pass all extra costs onto the customer,and at the end of the day the botom line is what it is all about,end of;)

for people who are rich it would be no problem,but my boss would simply pass all extra costs onto the customer,and at the end of the day the bottom line is what it is all about,end of;)

Thing is, I don't have a problem with the extra cost being passed on and you would fine more lorries running over night where they could.

All it takes is for one lorry to pull out without caring that the car is there. The car crams their anchors on and you have a nice multiple mile tail back, even if there isn't an accident.

All in my opinion, but it seems to work ok in the rest of Europe.